The Siberian Express is About to Roll

i am no mechanic and am not a 14.1 player, but these pockets LOOK bigger than all the gc’s i play- amsterdam billiards union square, skyline billiards avenue x brooklyn, and brownstone billiards park slope, and carom cafe flushing queens.

but looks can be deceiving.

his scratch on the break shot 266x1 should never have gone in the pocket in my opinion.
 
gerryf said:
Professionals aren't going to spend a lot of time doing it unless they're paid in some way. John Schmidt decided on his own dime to try and break the record that had stood for70 years and he succeeded.

Schmidt's new record seemed to create interest in 14.1 - enough that now we have an event where selected players (who are not named John Schmidt) are invited to try to break the record and are getting paid for it.
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Just curious where do you get all this information from? Im asking about all of it. Thanks for your response.
 
gerryf said:
I think it comes down to what Nick pointed out up thread. Sinking balls is work. Professionals aren't going to spend a lot of time doing it unless they're paid in some way. John Schmidt decided on his own dime to try and break the record that had stood for70 years and he succeeded.

Schmidt's new record seemed to create interest in 14.1 - enough that now we have an event where selected players (who are not named John Schmidt) are invited to try to break the record and are getting paid for it.

Make the remuneration good enough, and you'll find people who will try. But it's still work.

I was really surprised at the admittedly crude statistics that can give you a rough idea of how much effort it will take to break Schmidt's record. (Thanks Bob!!). For SVB, it's about 12 times the work he already put in - that's about 70 days work. For RC, it's might be as low as 10 times the work he's put in, if he can sustain that level of performance - or about 10 or 12 days. There are no guarantees though. How much money would it take for you to drop what you're doing for 70 days? 10-12 days?

The statistics part fascinates me, and I look forward to seeing how some of the top 14.1 players, like Chinakhov and Hohmann, will play. So far it's been a real education.
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This whole thing has put Willie's 526 in a different light for me. Sure 14.1 is all he really played. But it was well past his prime and he just did it randomly out in Ohio one day. No dedicated, long term, concerted effort to run a specific high number. Just show up, do the exhibition, and forget to stop running balls.
 
john schmidt was on a journey, he had a calling. he was given a quest, around age forty, one last time to find out if the mythic number 526 was possible to attain- or not.

and he got his answer.

i believe this inner quest to be as important as pattern play shot making and luck on the break for shane, ruslan, everyone.
 
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wrldpro said:
The table is a Gold Crown 4. Whats altered? Whatever record your speaking of table was it altered or do you even know? We have given full transperecy of the event table already.
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A Brunswick Gold Crown 4 was never built with the throat of the pocket being just as wide as the mouth of the pocket, like the pockets on this table....they've been altered, fact!

I've been working on pool tables for over 39 years, and I'm telling you point blank that pocket is NOT factory built. On a GC4 the pocket facings sit flush to the end of the pocket liners, if you take a look at where the cloth ends on the rails, the pocket facings sit outside of the pocket liners, meaning the throat of the pocket has been opened up to cause the balls to fall deeper in the pockets rather than risk bouncing back and forth across the pocket opening, causing a missed shot.

Take them damn calipers and measure the back throat of the pocket, it might even be wider than the mouth of the pocket opening is!!! Stock pockets my ass!!!
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Wrldpro, what ever was done or not done to the table Willie played on, or the table John played on, that don't exclude your INTENT when you chose THIS table, and ITS pocket openings to be played on. You KNOW those pockets have been altered for the INTENT of giving every play that plays on it a slightly better edge at making balls, hoping someone will break and set a new 14.1 high run record. Deliberately done, then denied having it done, is CHEATING pure and simple!!!
 
JusticeNJ said:
This whole thing has put Willie's 526 in a different light for me. Sure 14.1 is all he really played. But it was well past his prime and he just did it randomly out in Ohio one day. No dedicated, long term, concerted effort to run a specific high number. Just show up, do the exhibition, and forget to stop running balls.
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Willie was was being paid by Brunswick to play exhibitions, and was being paid to sink balls that night.
 
realkingcobra said:
I could be wrong, but I thought Shane had a 259 on day one, maybe the day before?
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Wrldpro listed SVB's top five runs (308, 295, 257, 241, and 210 I believe) Four of the runs are on video, but the 257 isn't there. I asked if there was another video that hadn't been posted, or if there were runs that weren't done on camera, but didn't get an answer.
 
wrldpro said:
Just curious where do you get all this information from? Im asking about all of it. Thanks for your response.
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For the LOPB event,

"invitation only". I heard that from you.
"committee of five persons" selecting who's invited. I heard that from you.
'large cash prizes". I heard that from you and Lou. There hasn't been any information about the prizes, but it was 'prizes' and not 'prize' and that they were large. Do players get a prize for beating their personal high runs? Do players get a cash prize based on their three highest runs? Do players get a cash prize for running 400 balls, 500 balls, 527 balls, or 627 balls?

It's a private event so that's all fine.

But it gets back to Nick's comments that 1) sinking balls is hard work, and 2) top professional players aren't going to spend a lot of time doing it without a payday.

No world-class professional players went after Willie's record in any organized way until John Schmidt did it on his own time. Schmidt had ideas about making money after the fact if he was successful, but he had no idea how long it would take.

Now you're hosting an event with cash prizes to garner enough interest to go after new records. I don't have a problem with that. I agree that it's the only way you'd get top professionals to spend blocks of time doing it.
 
markjames said:
john schmidt was on a journey, he had a calling. he was given a quest, around age forty, one last time to find out if the mythic number 526 was possible to attain- or not.

and he got his answer.

i believe this inner quest to be as important as pattern play shot making and luck on the break for shane, ruslan, everyone.
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iusedtoberich said:
Ruslan won't run 250 IMO, maybe even won't get to 200 in the 1-2 weeks he's scheduled. He hasn't run past one rack in 30 minutes of trying. Huge difference between him and Shane.
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Oh my....That prediction wasn't the best. Patterns matter, people. Good patterns, good rhytm and a world class shooter = high runs and CONSISTENT high runs. Don't bet against the people who play the game right.
 
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realkingcobra said:
A Brunswick Gold Crown 4 was never built with the throat of the pocket being just as wide as the mouth of the pocket, like the pockets on this table....they've been altered, fact!

I've been working on pool tables for over 39 years, and I'm telling you point blank that pocket is NOT factory built. On a GC4 the pocket facings sit flush to the end of the pocket liners, if you take a look at where the cloth ends on the rails, the pocket facings sit outside of the pocket liners, meaning the throat of the pocket has been opened up to cause the balls to fall deeper in the pockets rather than risk bouncing back and forth across the pocket opening, causing a missed shot.

Take them damn calipers and measure the back throat of the pocket, it might even be wider than the mouth of the pocket opening is!!! Stock pockets my ass!!!View attachment 615890
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Bobby has repeatedly ignored this, while repeatedly stating the table is stock. I will say having personally taken lots of pictures and video of my own GC4, that the lens can completely change the physical. But BC can put this question completely to rest by putting the calipers at the back of the pocket facings, or using a bevel gage.
 
JusticeNJ said:
This whole thing has put Willie's 526 in a different light for me. Sure 14.1 is all he really played. But it was well past his prime and he just did it randomly out in Ohio one day. No dedicated, long term, concerted effort to run a specific high number. Just show up, do the exhibition, and forget to stop running balls.
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Willie put on exhibitions all over the country. He was probably not doing as many runs and John did when he broke Willie's record, but Willie was definitely in stroke and playing a lot during that time. I think some people may think that Willie just showed up and ran 526 cold.
 
briankenobi said:
Willie put on exhibitions all over the country. He was probably not doing as many runs and John did when he broke Willie's record, but Willie was definitely in stroke and playing a lot during that time. I think some people may think that Willie just showed up and ran 526 cold.
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The details to juxtapose are unending. Balls pocket in a single inning should really be the end of considerations.

Willie grew up playing straight pool when it was a common game. John grew up in a time where many enthusiasts have never seen anyone else local play the game at all.
 
JusticeNJ said:
This whole thing has put Willie's 526 in a different light for me. Sure 14.1 is all he really played. But it was well past his prime and he just did it randomly out in Ohio one day. No dedicated, long term, concerted effort to run a specific high number. Just show up, do the exhibition, and forget to stop running balls.
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If you read the story in his biography, I think you will see that he did have motivation to set a record exactly at that time.
 
gerryf said:
Willie was was being paid by Brunswick to play exhibitions, and was being paid to sink balls that night.
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Willie's typical exhibition was playing a local rube and then doing some trick shots. He apparently varied his routine that night to stay late and keep running balls. Normally he would have to race to the next town to keep Brunswick's schedule.
 
briankenobi said:
Willie put on exhibitions all over the country. He was probably not doing as many runs and John did when he broke Willie's record, but Willie was definitely in stroke and playing a lot during that time. I think some people may think that Willie just showed up and ran 526 cold.
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Well, this has been discussed quite bit here over the past three years. Older guys like me who saw some of Willie's exhibitions and knew and spoke with even older folks who also witnessed some of Willie's 1950s exhibitions have spoken some facts in the past:

1. Willie was NEVER paid by Brunswick to do anything more on a given night than play a 14.1 exhibition match to 150 points and perhaps end the night with some trick shots- period.

2. Willie DID NOT continue runs after the 150 th exhibition or any competitive match point was scored on ANY routine basis whatsoever for years and years of his playing days- something like 40 years of playing in front of the public in exhibition and competition.

3. On one of the FEW times that Willie was asked and AGREED to continue a run in public- he ran 526. It was a random request, he was past his prime playing days, it was in the middle of an exhibition touring event.

4. Let's stay on the topic of Ruslan's attempt for now; but if some folks here want to get sidetracked as to what Willie could of, should of, would have done in terms of high runs - please - let's just leave it that he was the greatest 14.1 competitive player that ever lived- period.
 
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