Serious question?

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It’s the reason why pro’s don’t really come here any more. Guys like you with knowledge leave because jack off’s who covered their table in the basement and ran a few racks on it think they’re master table mechanics and world champions. I mostly come here for the comedy these days. Then I head to the golf course to be around people who don’t care what equipment you use… don’t think they know everything about the game because they got a birdie once and enjoy playing And don’t think that unless you gamble every penny you have on a game you’ll never be good at it.
This thread made me wish I played courses that had over sized cups. Of course that wouldn’t help my shitty drive, horrible long irons or fear of going in sand traps.

I played a couple of courses at Pinehurst two weeks ago and the set ups couldn’t have been different, much like a “pro” table and a bar box. Pinehurst #5 was a beautiful course but the set up and the greens were much like I’m used to playing. Of course it helped that I played one of my best rounds ever. #8 is a totally different story, like night and day different. It’s more like #2 where if you land the ball at the pin it will roll off the green. #8 is way more challenging with only a few subtle changes to the layout and greens and more of a pro setup. I wouldn’t want to play #8 all the time, at least not at my skill level, but I expect the pro’s to be playing those courses. It’s no different with pool.
 

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm just questioning if the decisions made today, making it harder and harder for the Pros to pocket balls, at what point does the tight pockets end? By making the pockets so tight, they make the pros look like normal everyday players, missing shots that would have, should have, been pocketed, does this send a negative message to the upcoming generations of future player's, to the point of discouragement of even playing pool as a sport? Combine tight ass pockets with shorter races handicaps the players in the long run.

If horse racing was limited to 100 yards at a time, for a mile, no Thoroughbred race horse on the planet would beat a 1/4 horse on the track.

The point of my last statement is that without some distance in the races, no player today can truly show their dominance over this sport, and their greatness as a dominant player.

It's just my thoughts that today's decisions about the pocket sizes being tighter, could cost us the future of this sport, just my opinion.
This makes me think of a tournament I saw that was played out west, in CA I think, where they played 10 ball on 4” pockets. I don’t remember who Alex was playing but Alex jarred a couple of balls and then never made another ball and lost 11-1 or something in the finals. I’m not sure if that will cause the downfall of pool. I think it just shows this sport is hard sometimes even for the pro’s.
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This thread made me wish I played courses that had over sized cups. Of course that wouldn’t help my shitty drive, horrible long irons or fear of going in sand traps.

I played a couple of courses at Pinehurst two weeks ago and the set ups couldn’t have been different, much like a “pro” table and a bar box. Pinehurst #5 was a beautiful course but the set up and the greens were much like I’m used to playing. Of course it helped that I played one of my best rounds ever. #8 is a totally different story, like night and day different. It’s more like #2 where if you land the ball at the pin it will roll off the green. #8 is way more challenging with only a few subtle changes to the layout and greens and more of a pro setup. I wouldn’t want to play #8 all the time, at least not at my skill level, but I expect the pro’s to be playing those courses. It’s no different with pool.
Played the TPC at Sawgrass a couple of times.
These courses that are set up for pros are a different animal altogether.
Had to hit shots on that course that never come up anywhere else.
Same with Augusta National.
Obviously never played Augusta but I have been there.
TV does not do the greens justice.
The swales, humps, valleys, and false fronts on the greens at Augusta are incredible.
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
There goes the thread. Any way to stay on subject.
You need to understand his MO. The question in the original post is always simply a loosely framed strawman arguement and an invitation to share his outrage about something nobody else here has a strong opinion about.
 

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
It's true, the big production in the industry make all the decisions based on money.
If Aramith came out with an even dumber set of balls and paid MR, they would be used for every event and be called the best balls on the market..
It worked. MR promoted those ridiculous balls in exchange for money, and fools ran out an bought sets.
Unfortunately, pool cannot stand on its own. The way the game is set up, big ad money makes events possible in exchange for pushing products.
This is why Derby City is such a cool event. It reminds us how things used to be to some degree.
 

Dunnn51

Clear the table!
Silver Member
wow, A LOT to opine here,....
RKC,; good to see you again here on the forum.
I respect you for your knowledge and expertise, your personna aside.(Ppl are different; some can't accept that).

AS for RKC's question, I like to equate pool to baseball.
In baseball, we have leagues. Little league, minor league, major league. MLB PRO's obviously play in the Major league. In pool we have recreational players ,amateurs, and PRO's.
A little league baseball diamond is not the same size as one in a MLB stadium. (I believe the distance from home plate to 1st base in LL is 50 or 60feet. Minors 90 ft. and majors 120ft.) The game is still winner after 9 innings.) Does anyone want to see Aaron Judge hitting homers on a LL playing field?? I did watch SVB and Sky Woodward play 8-ball on a BB and TBH it was a yawn!

SALES in a market economy are what drives product development. MARKETING is what drives desire and hence sales. Tightening pockets and closing pocket angles only make the game more difficult for even the PRO's to play. (Think the green monster in Boston against a PRO MLB batter.)
HONESTLY, I don't need to stop playing a Diamond table to go play a Rasson. I Don't need a CF shaft on my cue either; the laminated LD's are just fine!
 

TurboDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Her name is Emily...
yes, and thank God Emily's way of thinking is different than RKC's or everything would be in the toilet. If RKC ever went back and watched some of the video's she has put out explaining her reasoning, he might become a fan.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Serious question for everyone.

1.How is it that people that can't run a rack of balls in 9 or 10 ball, get to decide just exactly how a pool table should play for the Pros?

2.How do they even determine how the pockets should accept or reject balls, in order to create what they call FAIR pockets??

3. No one seems to be able to agree on shit, let alone which cloth is the best for the Pros to play on, yet, their OPINION seems to put them in charge of this sport! What are the best balls, best chalk, best of anything for the Pros, if it's the NON PROS doing all the deciding??? Sales, THAT’S how its all determined, SALES!!!

4. I mean, who is really in charge of this games future growth?

5.Who gave these people the power to decide on what the VIEWING fans want to see, or NOT want to see????

6. Who has the power to decide what's the best for the Professional players? I'd like to know!
1. Capitalism
2. Manufacturer, and their personal contacts, similar to a ROOKIE color announcer getting on mic, because he knows the owner
3. Swearing does not improve with getting your point across
4. $ales ''capitali$m" $ales.
5. Lack of funds, experience, poor camera movement, why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
6. The players themselves need to form a speaker group, this ship🛳️ is starting to set sail.
 
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maha

from way back when
Silver Member
collectively all players end up having a say as they spend the money.

most would say let the pros and promoters have any kind of pockets they want.

but dont let it transfer to the local poolroom and ruin it for the average player there. which is what has basically happened
and may have also helped end many rooms business model.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But, all golf cups are 4 1/4' worldwide, no matter what course your playing on, that's my point.
But like someone else mentioned, amateurs don't play from the same tee box the pros do.

A "one size fits all" approach will absolutely not work.

First, table size... Too many people believe no one should be playing on 7 foot tables. This is not an economically sound belief. While I personally prefer playing on a 9 foot, they take up too much floor space. Halls need to maximize income now more then ever.

Pocket dimensions... There needs to be multiple "standards".... Recreational, Amateur, and Professional. Each individual pool hall or sports bar owner knows their clientele. They should be the ones making the decision. Yes, it will be based on economics. If they don't give what their clientele want, they won't last long

The rest such as cloth, balls, and chalk will be worked out by free market standards. If a product isn't living up to hype, it will disappear. If people werent buying the new tv ball colors, they would disappear. There are many options in cloth. That's a good thing. If there was just one choice, you wouldn't be able to afford it. With no competition, the price will be what they decide it to be.
 
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Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Played the TPC at Sawgrass a couple of times.
These courses that are set up for pros are a different animal altogether.
Had to hit shots on that course that never come up anywhere else.
Same with Augusta National.
Obviously never played Augusta but I have been there.
TV does not do the greens justice.
The swales, humps, valleys, and false fronts on the greens at Augusta are incredible.
I love TPC. The way I keep score there is by what hole I make it to when I hit 100.

The first time I went to the Masters I couldn’t believe how many elevation changes it had, especially in the fairways. That and I got hustled. The guy I went with said he would buy all the food and beers on the course the entire weekend if I bought dinner in Atlanta the night before we went over. I wish I had done a little research before agreeing to that one.
 

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You need to understand his MO. The question in the original post is always simply a loosely framed strawman arguement and an invitation to share his outrage about something nobody else here has a strong opinion about.
Trust me I understand. And will say publicly RKC has been a great help when I needed him. And know he is there anytime I need him. If I do not agree with something he posts I'll skip by it... Some members swear by him and some swear at him. I'm glad to have him onboard, his phone number and know the line is open. This thread is a good bar room conversation.
Honestly I do not think post #1 abrasive
 
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realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
collectively all players end up having a say as they spend the money.

most would say let the pros and promoters have any kind of pockets they want.

but dont let it transfer to the local poolroom and ruin it for the average player there. which is what has basically happened
and may have also helped end many rooms business model.
Last years US Open 9 ball event didn't have the 256 players they were expecting. This years event coming up will have 4' corner pockets, wonder if the entries will be even less than last year, if so, the players will have started speaking out, and not in a good way for this sport, just wait and see.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
When the number of players start dropping off, so will the added money, I guarantee it, because the entry fees add up to the majority of the payout money!!
Last years US Open 9 ball event didn't have the 256 players they were expecting. This years event coming up will have 4' corner pockets, wonder if the entries will be even less than last year, if so, the players will have started speaking out, and not in a good way for this sport, just wait and see.
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love TPC. The way I keep score there is by what hole I make it to when I hit 100.

The first time I went to the Masters I couldn’t believe how many elevation changes it had, especially in the fairways. That and I got hustled. The guy I went with said he would buy all the food and beers on the course the entire weekend if I bought dinner in Atlanta the night before we went over. I wish I had done a little research before agreeing to that one.
Amazing how inexpensive everything is on the course.
It's all about keeping their "patrons" happy.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
wow, A LOT to opine here,....
RKC,; good to see you again here on the forum.
I respect you for your knowledge and expertise, your personna aside.(Ppl are different; some can't accept that).

AS for RKC's question, I like to equate pool to baseball.
In baseball, we have leagues. Little league, minor league, major league. MLB PRO's obviously play in the Major league. In pool we have recreational players ,amateurs, and PRO's.
A little league baseball diamond is not the same size as one in a MLB stadium. (I believe the distance from home plate to 1st base in LL is 50 or 60feet. Minors 90 ft. and majors 120ft.) The game is still winner after 9 innings.) Does anyone want to see Aaron Judge hitting homers on a LL playing field?? I did watch SVB and Sky Woodward play 8-ball on a BB and TBH it was a yawn!

SALES in a market economy are what drives product development. MARKETING is what drives desire and hence sales. Tightening pockets and closing pocket angles only make the game more difficult for even the PRO's to play. (Think the green monster in Boston against a PRO MLB batter.)
HONESTLY, I don't need to stop playing a Diamond table to go play a Rasson. I Don't need a CF shaft on my cue either; the laminated LD's are just fine!
The baseball fan in me mourns your post. If you are going to use another sport as an analogy, please get it right. 120' base paths? Really? A full size baseball diamond played on by high school teams all the way up to the Majors is: Pitching Rubber to Home Plate: 60' 6", base paths are 90'. Little League plays 6 inning games, high school 7 and college/pro plays 9.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
The baseball fan in me mourns your post. If you are going to use another sport as an analogy, please get it right. 120' base paths? Really? A full size baseball diamond played on by high school teams all the way up to the Majors is: Pitching Rubber to Home Plate: 60' 6", base paths are 90'. Little League plays 6 inning games, high school 7 and college/pro plays 9.
Just thought I'd mess with you a little😅🤣🤣
Are Major League Baseball fields bigger?



How big is a NCAA baseball field?



Why are all baseball fields different sizes?



Is college baseball field smaller then MLB?


However, it is generally accepted that college baseball fields are smaller than MLB fields. The smaller size of college baseball fields can be attributed to a number of factors, including the fact that college teams typically have less money to spend on their facilities than MLB teams.Dec 7, 2022
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just thought I'd mess with you a little😅🤣🤣
Are Major League Baseball fields bigger?



How big is a NCAA baseball field?



Why are all baseball fields different sizes?



Is college baseball field smaller then MLB?


However, it is generally accepted that college baseball fields are smaller than MLB fields. The smaller size of college baseball fields can be attributed to a number of factors, including the fact that college teams typically have less money to spend on their facilities than MLB teams.Dec 7, 2022
False. I played college baseball and our field dimensions were the same as MLB dimensions. Fields have different outfield wall dimensions but the base paths and pitching distance is the same from high school up to MLB.
 
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