WWYD to run 3 & out.

I tried the pattern today for about half an hour. The pattern as shown in the original post is possible but it is very touchy for the amount of left spin. Because you are hitting the first ball nearly full, a little bit of side is turned into quite a bit of side relative to the speed of the cue ball. (I think the multiplier is about 6 or 7 if you look at the physics.) It took maybe 20 tries to get position on the 11. I usually had too much side on the cue ball so it came back towards where it started. The exact cut angle on the 4 makes a huge difference to the action especially if the pocket cannot be cheated.

My best results were with dead draw to go straight to shape on the 11. The cut angle is too small to use lively draw. Dead draw gives a wider spread to go through the 15-5 window. If you do have too much draw but hit the right side of the 5 you can still end up with a good result. Some shots ended up to the left of the 11 and a circus shot would have been required to get on the 15, but usually there was a shot on the 15 that could have continued the run.

If I had to run 3 here, I would never try the follow shot.
Some people/players have 75% knowledge & 25% ability at execution, some 75% execution skills with 25% knowledge. Then there is the player who has the 'perfect balance' of both for them. That's the person that's difficult to beat!
 
You play with barrels? What's the fun in that?

Bob <-- only played barrel-free one time and it was exciting
Good Lord, bob. Not my own barrels
All the fun is in the barrels of third parties.

P.S. I am currently interviewing backers and all are encouraged to apply.
 
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I don't carry $20's, I might get arrested for vagrancy. LOL!

They just could of said You are a 'Platinum' member Bob.
I think Bob is having sport with us Bill, Osmium is one of the densest materials on the planet and is also stinky. I met him once and he wasn't stinky.
 
I tried the pattern today for about half an hour. The pattern as shown in the original post is possible but it is very touchy for the amount of left spin. Because you are hitting the first ball nearly full, a little bit of side is turned into quite a bit of side relative to the speed of the cue ball. (I think the multiplier is about 6 or 7 if you look at the physics.) It took maybe 20 tries to get position on the 11. I usually had too much side on the cue ball so it came back towards where it started. The exact cut angle on the 4 makes a huge difference to the action especially if the pocket cannot be cheated.

My best results were with dead draw to go straight to shape on the 11. The cut angle is too small to use lively draw. Dead draw gives a wider spread to go through the 15-5 window. If you do have too much draw but hit the right side of the 5 you can still end up with a good result. Some shots ended up to the left of the 11 and a circus shot would have been required to get on the 15, but usually there was a shot on the 15 that could have continued the run.

If I had to run 3 here, I would never try the follow shot.
I also shot this a bunch today. I 100% agree with Bob that the follow shot is simply being mad at your wallet. As DannyD says - "he's going to sleep in the streets with that shot!"

TOP: One significant reason that the follow shot is a poor option is that it is too speed dependent. Not only do you have to hit it fairly hard, if you are then marginally too hard or too soft, all you have is a bad safety option. Notably, even when you hit it good, your margin for error must be above the shot line for the next ball, making the run out even more difficult.

DRAW: With the draw shot, you almost always end up with something offensive, including being on the right side of the next pocket line.

VIDEO: For the peanut gallery, I converted the original image to a projection overlay and then shot it 10X [EDIT: 12X] each with markers for each shot. It's a rather long (and boring video). But, as you will see, the top shot had wild variations because the "recipe" of top and inside and aim point has too much variability. And, even when I got close, it wasn't a great chance to keep going. [During warm up, I had a a few "perfect" attempts, but there is no value in posted just the good ones here. Rather, you get to see 20 in a row, uncut]. Conversely, the draw shot has a tight grouping, 10 for 10.

PUNCHLINE: you should definitely give this shot a try for your own knowledge. I believe doing so will confirm that shooting with top can work in some instances, but draw will almost certainly work. Play your percentages!

-td

 
I also shot this a bunch today. I 100% agree with Bob that the follow shot is simply being mad at your wallet. As DannyD says - "he's going to sleep in the streets with that shot!"

TOP: One significant reason that the follow shot is a poor option is that it is too speed dependent. Not only do you have to hit it fairly hard, if you are then marginally too hard or too soft, all you have is a bad safety option. Notably, even when you hit it good, your margin for error must be above the shot line for the next ball, making the run out even more difficult.

DRAW: With the draw shot, you almost always end up with something offensive, including being on the right side of the next pocket line.

VIDEO: For the peanut gallery, I converted the original image to a projection overlay and then shot it 10X [EDIT: 12X] each with markers for each shot. It's a rather long (and boring video). But, as you will see, the top shot had wild variations because the "recipe" of top and inside and aim point has too much variability. And, even when I got close, it wasn't a great chance to keep going. [During warm up, I had a a few "perfect" attempts, but there is no value in posted just the good ones here. Rather, you get to see 20 in a row, uncut]. Conversely, the draw shot has a tight grouping, 10 for 10.

PUNCHLINE: you should definitely give this shot a try for your own knowledge. I believe doing so will confirm that shooting with top can work in some instances, but draw will almost certainly work. Play your percentages!

-td

I don't know what all that gear you have on the table is. But I can tell you this, You don't have the stroke for the shot! So it's definitely not the shot for You.

BTW, does it look like "I" hit the shot Hard? I hit the shot with the tempo/timing and speed the shot needed.
 
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I don't know what all that gear you have on the table is. But I can tell you this, You don't have the stroke for the shot! So it's definitely not the shot for You.

BTW, does it look like "I" hit the shot Hard? I hit the shot with the tempo/timing and speed the shot needed.
But I did stay at a holiday in express.

-td
 
I don't know what all that gear you have on the table is. But I can tell you this, You don't have the stroke for the shot! So it's definitely not the shot for You.

BTW, does it look like "I" hit the shot Hard? I hit the shot with the tempo/timing and speed the shot needed.
Oh, and yes. You did hit the shot relatively hard.

-td

[PS: my stroke out whammy's yours all day every day. hahhaahahah]
 
Oh, and yes. You did hit the shot relatively hard.

-td

[PS: my stroke out whammy's yours all day every day. hahhaahahah]

Now that is laughable!!!

Maybe you can try out that 'Whammy' stroke of yours on these shots.

From 1997 LIVE (no edit) for over 300 Northwestern students and patrons of Chris's Billiards.

 
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Some people/players have 75% knowledge & 25% ability at execution, some 75% execution skills with 25% knowledge. Then there is the player who has the 'perfect balance' of both for them. That's the person that's difficult to beat!

What category are you saying you fall in?

Clearly your shot selection is not so good when it comes to 1pocket.

Lou Figueroa
Bob is correct
 
Could you explain
1)because you are hitting the first ball pretty full alittle side spin turns into alot of side spin
2) what does”dead “draw mean
Thanks bob
I think both Hoppe and Byrne discuss the "dead draw" shot. Daly certainly does. It is absolutely standard at the small games.

The quality of spin is a very important concept. It is the ratio of the amount of spin to the speed of the ball. Lively draw is a lot of draw for how hard you hit the cue ball. If you take away the speed of the cue ball by hitting a ball, the quality of the spin necessarily increases.
 
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I think Bob is having sport with us Bill, Osmium is one of the densest materials on the planet and is also stinky. I met him once and he wasn't stinky.
As far as trying previously discussed shots at get-togethers, I was absolutely serious. I remember one member claiming they could make the eight ball half the time with the second-ball break. I think that talk would end pretty quickly at even money. Unless they are really Corey Deuel. ;)
 
I think both Hoppe and Byrne discuss the "dead draw" shot. Daly certainly does. It is absolutely standard at the small games.

The quality of spin is a very important concept. It is the ratio of the amount of spin to the speed of the ball. Lively draw is a lot of draw for how hard you hit the cue ball. If you take away the speed of the cue ball by hitting a ball, the quality of the spin necessarily increases.
Daly's book describes it as a, 'Dry Stroke.'

From; Billiards.com DEAD BALL SHOT. (Pocket games) A shot in which a 'dead ball stroke' is employed; often called a kill shot, because of the relative lack of cue ball motion after contact with the object ball. (I guess I'm not the only player who knows one can apply more than '1' stroke through the CB.)

The question should be, "How does a player acquire/apply the 'dead ball stroke?'
What are the mechanics?
 
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[PS: my stroke out whammy's yours all day every day. hahhaahahah]
Now that is laughable!!!

Maybe you can try out that 'Whammy' stroke of yours on these shots.
What category are you saying you fall in?

Clearly your shot selection is not so good when it comes to 1pocket.
A different category than You Lou.

Come on guys... We're all too old for this kind of crap.

Besides... My dad could totally beat up any of your dads
 
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Whether you need 3 or all 4 balls your shot gives the player the best chance to get them. Thanks for another practice session workout.
 
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