US Open 9-Ball, 2023, Atlantic City, Sep 25-30

[Lightnin']

So, you (you, as in the pool world) is using tight pockets as the solution in trying to do away with soft breaking? Why not just do away with soft breaking? 3 balls behind the line is not the answer either. Everyone has hit slugs, as hard as possible and occassionally not got 3 behind the line. No wonder pool has gone no where in 40 years. lol

The regular pro cut pocket Brunswick gold crown Efren and Earl played on has 5.9 million views (just on one youtube channel). They did not need tight pockets, it was never boring to watch rack after rack, and was quite different layouts every time. What got them that many views? Was it the pockets, equipment, what they wore, hitting the balls soft or hard? No, it was exciting pool, and seeing personality with the play.

Agreed !!
This trend of tighter pockets is only benefiting the Euro snooker players with ball potting proficiency and simple safety/strategy play and jump cue ability ...It's slowly turning into Chinese 8ball.
Please let's stop this trend...

 

[overlord]

Bruh. In the mid-90s when we were still riding the wave of pool popularity due to The Color of Money and Earl Strickland was absolutely crushing it, 95% of the league players I associated with, had absolutely no clue who Earl and Efren were. League players generally don't bother to watch professional pool AT ALL.

Again.. We're just making up reasons for pool's fall in America, without considering how hard it is for today's American youth to even FIND a table they are allowed to play on. It gets really tiresome after the hundredth time of people being WAY offbase about the reasons why pool is not doing well in America. Euros have organized clubs, that while they might serve alcohol, don't have the uber-restrictions against minors being in those clubs, while America by and large, does. Euros also have better training programs, because the league systems are set up all over Europe specifically as a farm system for talent, whereas leagues in America are set up to get that $5 per month. THAT'S the issue. And no young players have access to pool in North America unless their parents own a table at home, or their family owns a pool hall (Morra and SVB...) when they are in their teens.

And here's a clue.. Doesn't matter how big the pockets are, if Americans have worse fundamentals than Euros. Sure, it might lead to an American upset over a Euro once in a while, but it won't make much of a difference in who wins the events. If you open up the pockets, American players outside of Skylar and SVB will run a few more racks per set, while the Euros will run A LOT more racks per set.

I agree with a lot of the stuff you are saying and can share with you what happened in Cali.

Gangs got into shoot outs in Pool halls. A kid got shot in Los Feliz IIRC.

Then the insurance rates went way up on pool halls and many venues went to 21 so as not to have teenagers.

In Germany I don't think they have gangs problems, l could be wrong.

The old Cochrans which became Hollywood Billiards was shuttered, after gangs had a major blow out in the venue.

 

[Lightnin']

i'm for the tighter pockets as well (look at the cuelee's 9-ball event last week with 4⅜ pockets as an example of tables being too easy for the top boys) but these tables seem tougher than the previous events, spanish open etc

That Cuelee's event was EXCITING to watch....and see some incredible shots taken on, polar opposite of what we're seeing at this year's US Open. The management decisions must be leaning to Euro needs....because this is NO fun at all for North Americans. This is supposed to be 9ball pool ...not 10 ball, not snooker, not Chinese 8ball. It's supposed to be explosive and creative, fast and fun. This is NOT.

 

[Maniac]

That Cuelee's event was EXCITING to watch....and see some incredible shots taken on, polar opposite of what we're seeing at this year's US Open. The management decisions must be leaning to Euro needs....because this is NO fun at all for North Americans. This is supposed to be 9ball pool ...not 10 ball, not snooker, not Chinese 8ball. It's supposed to be explosive and creative, fast and fun. This is NOT.

I agree. I can hardly watch it. Between all the safety play coupled with no shot clock, even a diehard pool fan like me is gagging at what I'm watching.

 

[boogieman]

This was a horribly boring day for the open. Would it have killed them to put a decent player on the tv tables? I started trying to watch at about 3 PM and it's been terrible. Yesterday was exciting... today was a bore.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I'm all for a shot clock. A lot of the other comments just seem like strange justification for losing? Surely standardising the format leads to better play?

Agreed !!
This trend of tighter pockets is only benefiting the Euro snooker players with ball potting proficiency and simple safety/strategy play and jump cue ability ...It's slowly turning into Chinese 8ball.
Please let's stop this trend...

Isn't potting proficiency, and cueball control the point of the game?
Were the same gripes appearing during Spanish/Euro/UK open If the pockets are the same size?

I will agree that the play hasn't been inspiring in this tournament, but is that more to do with the entrants partaking in this open? If the tables were the same in the other MR events?

 

[Flakeandrun]

This was a horribly boring day for the open. Would it have killed them to put a decent player on the tv tables? I started trying to watch at about 3 PM and it's been terrible. Yesterday was exciting... today was a bore.

Absolutely agree with this. Made time to watch it. Wish I hadn't.

 

[Lightnin']

Raga vs Chang was the only decent match I've watched ...everything else hasn't seemed like 9 ball pool at all. Super boring stuff here, and 100% totally contributed to those 4" pockets.
..and what do you think us league players are thinking when we see these conditions....NO way we're spending a cent to go enter events like this and try our luck and hopefully get the chance to compete against our favorite Pro's. This killed that idea dead.
As Newman so eloquently said "You know what this is turning into..... a waste of my time, and waste of my money!"

 

[Lightnin']

I'm all for a shot clock. A lot of the other comments just seem like strange justification for losing? Surely standardising the format leads to better play?

Isn't potting proficiency, and cueball control the point of the game?
Were the same gripes appearing during Spanish/Euro/UK open If the pockets are the same size?

I will agree that the play hasn't been inspiring in this tournament, but is that more to do with the entrants partaking in this open? If the tables were the same in the other MR events?

NO ...these are smaller pockets, 4" now compared with 4 1/8" or 4 1/4" at those events. This is 100% the reason for the boring and general poor play.
There is "supposed to be" more to the game of 9ball then just potting proficiency, albeit it is essential to have. Snooker is ALL about potting proficiency, hence "my" thought here that management is favoring Euro needs.

 

[iba7467]

Everyone is up in arms about tight pockets and poor play. The fact is that there are not many choice matches early on in any tournament. In almost every case one of the players is highly outclassed. This gives the weaker player nearly no shot to win and the stronger play no real incentive to bear down. It is also the first couple days of a long event where players will get more and more used to the tables. By the last 32, I expect you will see the standard exceptional play by the favorites remaining. The last few rounds will have similar break and run figures to other tournaments as long as a similar number of balls are falling on the break.

AtLarge will likely post stats when this is over that verify this post.

 

[ribdoner]

i pot plants, not pool balls

 

[Mole Eye]

Please see my post just a few above yours that clearly states why pocket sizes have **** all to do with the state of American pool. It doesn't matter what the pocket sizes are. For the most part, most American youth don't have access to ANY pool tables, for the reasons I stated.

Lotta people declaring American pool to be failing for "x" reasons, don't have any real clue as to true reasons.

I agree that there are a lot of reasons. i am not saying that reducing the pocket size is the only reason. I am saying that is just ANOTHER reason, if there were a revival of interest by young people to want to play this sport we love, where are they going to get the training and equipment necessary to excel? Where are the rooms that have equipment with 4 inch or smaller pockets to train on? Other parts of the world have them. We don't.

 

[BasementDweller]

I think many of you are comparing the early rounds of this tourney to later rounds of other ones. I like seeing the players struggle a bit early on, and as the creme rises and the players get into gear, the level of play increases. Rarely do we see poor play as we approach the final rounds.

In my book, that's exactly how a tournament should be set up, especially a MAJOR tournament of this length. If you're seeing great play all around on day 1, then the format/setup is less than ideal.

 

[Island Drive]

Everyone is up in arms about tight pockets and poor play. The fact is that there are not many choice matches early on in any tournament. In almost every case one of the players is highly outclassed. This gives the weaker player nearly no shot to win and the stronger play no real incentive to bear down. It is also the first couple days of a long event where players will get more and more used to the tables. By the last 32, I expect you will see the standard exceptional play by the favorites remaining. The last few rounds will have similar break and run figures to other tournaments as long as a similar number of balls are falling on the break.

AtLarge will likely post stats when this is over that verify this post.

As the days pass, the cloth wears, dirt accumulates, the cushion nose begins to grab more.
The balls wear/pit slightly with chalk being pounded into the shiny new surfaces.
Now toss in some excessive Humidity, the weekend crowds and its raining outside, it's no longer EXCITING Run Out Shaw Nine ball.

Players need to speak up.
4'' has always been too small.

bm

 

[Bob Jewett]

For those of you who have DAZN, days 1 and 2 are up for replay. Each video is about 11 hours long. I've been watching most of the matches on replay rather than live and I have been making most excellent use of the +30 second button.

If DAZN does the same as in the past, the videos will be up for one week each.

 

[Flakeandrun]

NO ...these are smaller pockets, 4" now compared with 4 1/8" or 4 1/4" at those events. This is 100% the reason for the boring and general poor play.
There is "supposed to be" more to the game of 9ball then just potting proficiency, albeit it is essential to have. Snooker is ALL about potting proficiency, hence "my" thought here that management is favoring Euro needs.

Are they? I thought that one of the selling points of MR was standardisation, and that they are the same as other events... Why isn't their specification sheet if it's standardised? Why does nobody know this definitively? Shouldn't be some bloody mystery lol

What I said before stands imo if the pocket sizes are a set standard. If they are different size, for different events... well that's just nonsense.

Not all of these euro players play snooker in fact, it's not exactly a huge sport in Europe outside of the UK even now (yes, thankfully there is some new blood coming through in EU)

 

[Dead Money]

i pot plants, not pool balls

I planted pool balls once. I was hoping to grow a full set. I watered them every day and nothing....wtf...such a let down.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

And yet, somehow, he has been in the conversation for Mosconi Cup choices.

I think after his U.S. Open performances, we probably won't be hearing his name as often. He is currently getting his ass handed to him by Alenzi.

Edited to add: Alenzi wins 8-4. Wolford going home.

For a team that gets it's head beat in year after year by actual world class players. America doesn't HAVE any world class players besides SVB, and Skylar, and Skylar as it is is very much a cut below Shane. Everyone else is simply the best we could do within the talent pool. Tyler Styer is debatable, but he is not quite there yet.

 

[Flakeandrun]

For a team that gets it's head beat in year after year by actual world class players. America doesn't HAVE any world class players besides SVB, and Skylar, and Skylar as it is is very much a cut below Shane. Everyone else is simply the best we could do within the talent pool. Tyler Styer is debatable, but he is not quite there yet.

TEAM AMERICA.... F*** YE-No....
agree with you.

 

[AtLarge]

Best player eliminated after two days -- Anton Raga.