Professional refereeing explained (prior to World Championships 2023 in Klagenfurt, Austria)
- Thread starter Vahmurka
- Start date
Excellent explanations.
He asked the players to read the rules. That's a very optimistic hope.
In the best of all possible worlds -- from an official's perspective -- players would read and know the rules. A lot of players' meetings in the US spend most of the time discussing what the rules are. I think that should not happen. Discuss the particular break rules, the chance of a shot clock, the lengths of matches at various stages, and the best place to eat if you're in a hurry. The rules should already be known.
He asked the players to read the rules. That's a very optimistic hope.
In the best of all possible worlds -- from an official's perspective -- players would read and know the rules. A lot of players' meetings in the US spend most of the time discussing what the rules are. I think that should not happen. Discuss the particular break rules, the chance of a shot clock, the lengths of matches at various stages, and the best place to eat if you're in a hurry. The rules should already be known.
Thanks for sharing your view Bob, there are many people in the US who respect that.
In regard with reading the rules the message is that even the most skilled professional referees read them again and again. After all, that's not a huge volume of text. Hopefully players get the message and follow suit.
Actually that is how players meeting is arranged when the EBPF referees team is in charge. Only this time they decided to offer it in online format also.
In regard with reading the rules the message is that even the most skilled professional referees read them again and again. After all, that's not a huge volume of text. Hopefully players get the message and follow suit.
Actually that is how players meeting is arranged when the EBPF referees team is in charge. Only this time they decided to offer it in online format also.
Good video. This explains why the miscue a few months ago was called a foul. I forget the players, maybe Max was one of them.
A fine presentation offered with clarity.
One area not covered was breach of dress code, and there was an argument on this subject at the US Open 9-ball. When approached by an area referee and asked to comply, the player argued that the room was so cold that the additional garment that fell outside the guidelines was needed. The player lost the argument and had to remove it.
Another point of refereeing not covered was one that's always confused me. When there is a table ref, can a player object to where the referee is standing while officiating a shot? More than a couple of times over the years, I've heard a player claim they were sharked by the referee's positioning.
One area not covered was breach of dress code, and there was an argument on this subject at the US Open 9-ball. When approached by an area referee and asked to comply, the player argued that the room was so cold that the additional garment that fell outside the guidelines was needed. The player lost the argument and had to remove it.
Another point of refereeing not covered was one that's always confused me. When there is a table ref, can a player object to where the referee is standing while officiating a shot? More than a couple of times over the years, I've heard a player claim they were sharked by the referee's positioning.
Some shots require the referee to be in a particular position to see the shot clearly. If there is a tricky hit on two close balls, the ref may need to stand fully in the eyeline of the player. However, if the situation does not require a particular location, the ref should try to stay invisible.
Not all players agree with the invisibility thing. Ronnie O'Sullivan has spoken against the habit of snooker refs to get behind the player on every shot. That causes them to be slow to spot the colors. I think he would rather have them stay near the black pockets. There are lots of videos where Ronnie runs the ref around like a chihuahua on a short leash by getting down immediately on the next red.
I think part of the problem is that many players are not used to having a ref at the table. Some players can completely tune out the ref -- just another piece of furniture that happens to move from time to time.
Thanks, Bob. I've never fully understood this.
If there was a standard set of rules for all tournaments that would help.
Ignoring private leagues, I think the WSR are used most places. There remain the differences in break format, which is the result of the break being fundamentally broken at nine ball.
Kelly Fisher just got a Yellow Card in her last 4 match. She took longer than allotted for her between rack break. The ref showed a yellow card when she came back and awarded her opponent an extra game, and her opponent now has the break.
I guess she already had a green card from a prior infraction? Or was this serious enough to go right to a yellow card? One thing that was not clear on the video in this thread was the ref discussed a database of players to keep track of the cards given. How does the ref access that database on the fly? How does the ref know what color card the players are on?
I guess she already had a green card from a prior infraction? Or was this serious enough to go right to a yellow card? One thing that was not clear on the video in this thread was the ref discussed a database of players to keep track of the cards given. How does the ref access that database on the fly? How does the ref know what color card the players are on?
Yes the list of cards issued to the players is kept throughout the event. Every member of the referees team knows who is on green, yellow, etc.
I suppose your guess Kelly already was on green is correct.
Thank you Bob. I probably refereed ten thousand matches in my life and I always believed it was my responsiblity to get in the best position possible to watch a close hit. I wanted to see the cue ball coming toward me, and If I was in the players line of sight I just stood still. If asked I told them this is where I need to be and I will stand still while he (or she) is shooting. Most of the time I could sit in a high chair at the side of the arena and see just fine from there. I didn't walk around the table unless it was necessary.
Thanks, Jay. These sorts of things baffle even the most attentive fans.
I thought you only got a yellow card for a head high tackle.
I don't think we'll hear anything from Kelly Fisher about this happening with the yellow card because she is the WPA Players Affairs representative. https://wpapool.com/about-us/wpa-board/
The recent negative publicity about the WPA v. Matchroom, letters, podcasts, et cetera, you would think WPA would want to polish their image and become more amiable to the pool pros and the pool public. I remember them suspending Billy and Darren. Yes, there were reasons explained about it, but the WPA seems project bad vibes in everything they're involved in, and quite frankly, it stinks up the joint.
If they want to be a thriving force in the professional world of pool, they need to work on their image and stop ruffling feathers everywhere they go.
The recent negative publicity about the WPA v. Matchroom, letters, podcasts, et cetera, you would think WPA would want to polish their image and become more amiable to the pool pros and the pool public. I remember them suspending Billy and Darren. Yes, there were reasons explained about it, but the WPA seems project bad vibes in everything they're involved in, and quite frankly, it stinks up the joint.
If they want to be a thriving force in the professional world of pool, they need to work on their image and stop ruffling feathers everywhere they go.
I think it is a poor excuse for a foul by the WPA or the referee or whoever is in charge.
Women, in particular, sometimes have needs to use a rest room that men don't. I'll just leave it at that.
Jen, the regulations for timeout are uniform as of now, take it as it is
5 minutes, and no more. Once a player requested his timeout the referee marks the time, and every player is aware about being late from timeout and the results of such. I assume if fans attack the game's star downstairs when chasing for autographs and the player is late for this reason, he/she could explain that and probably be forgiven. Not so sure about this one though
Otherwise, sorry, it is a minor violation resulting in a penalty of appropriate nature.
The rule should be applied if there is flagrant violations, but I am not there. If the bathroom is a 2.5-minute walk and a female needs to take care of personal matters, it's impossible to adhere to that rule.Jen, the regulations for timeout are uniform as of now, take it as it is
I assume if fans attack the game's star downstairs when chasing for autographs and the player is late for this reason, he/she could explain that and probably be forgiven. Not so sure about this one though
Between the WPA paying a Poland subcontractor to give pro players random drug tests, randomly selected players, and nobody knows how much was paid to the Polish subcontractor, as well as this rule here, I am now understanding why there's such a disdain everywhere in the pool world for the WPA and its practices. It's unbelievable that they could cause such an uproar time and time again.