This is the sort of "arm talent" I'm talking about. I think we are guilty of watching pros play through racks where their total capability is rarely challenged and then we think we can replicate it if we only work hard enough. This is very misleading. It's only on the practice table where you can see what players can REALLY accomplish with their strokes. It can be quite sobering.
Best Shot to Gauge Skill
- Thread starter JABSolstice
- Start date
I think the OP's shot is a good one. The only bad thing about it is it might be some people's pet practice shot, and they could be artificially better at it. I may want to make it a shot with a lot of spin and speed, to see how the player can execute. Maybe playing the CB 3 rails forward around the table, on a fuller hit, so you really have to whack it hard.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
The first time I was ever really 'Wow'ed' in person watching pool, was watching Fu Jian Bo playing a long jump with a reasonably long draw, CB off one cushion and landing perfectly on the next ball. You're right, those shots that rarely come up are what demonstrate real prowess.
I agree with you totally, I feel like watching pros dick around on the practice table can really show you the difference between 'us and them'
Back in the late 90's, for a couple of years I avoided my college courses like the black plague. Instead, I would wander in and out of the pool room that just so happened to be within walking distance of the apartment I shared with my "college" buddies. I'm 33 percent convinced it was a gift from the devil himself. Anyway, I eventually started working there part-time in order to get the free pool time. The place was called Playtime Billiards and it was in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It was an interesting couple of years to say the least. I would roll out of bed and instead of walking north towards campus, I would walk south towards the pool room. One day I was in there working on this crazy stroke shot that I'll try to explain: You have the 9 sitting in the jaws of one corner pocket. The 8 is on the side rail, between the adjacent corner and side pocket. The cue ball is placed about 3 feet away, maybe with a little less than a half ball hit angle. So you pocket the 8 with maximum low-left english (I think), probably more spin than actual draw. The cue ball spins back hitting 3 rails and pocketing the 9. It's quite the shot to see in person. (I'll try to throw up a picture)
Anyway, I'm struggling with this dumb shot, getting close at times, and failing miserably at others. In walks Nathan Haddad, he was working there at the time too. He was clearly the best player in town. He was really an up and comer at one point before he got sidetracked. I believe he won the BCA Junior Championship back when this tourney was turning out a list of champions annually. He watched me flailing away at the shot for a minute or two and said, "Give me one try for twenty." He was half serious about betting on it as he wasn't afraid to gamble but he ended up trying it for fun. Anyway, he grabs my cue, takes a few air strokes, shimmies down into position, feathers a few practice strokes, and gets the job done on the first try! Watching him play and practice after hours was really sobering. It helped me get back on the straight and narrow.
*** Now I think about it, the cue ball may been much further down table.
Anyway, I'm struggling with this dumb shot, getting close at times, and failing miserably at others. In walks Nathan Haddad, he was working there at the time too. He was clearly the best player in town. He was really an up and comer at one point before he got sidetracked. I believe he won the BCA Junior Championship back when this tourney was turning out a list of champions annually. He watched me flailing away at the shot for a minute or two and said, "Give me one try for twenty." He was half serious about betting on it as he wasn't afraid to gamble but he ended up trying it for fun. Anyway, he grabs my cue, takes a few air strokes, shimmies down into position, feathers a few practice strokes, and gets the job done on the first try! Watching him play and practice after hours was really sobering. It helped me get back on the straight and narrow.
*** Now I think about it, the cue ball may been much further down table.
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Think I can imagine it in my head, a picture would help.Back in the late 90's, for a couple of years I avoided my college courses like the black plague. Instead, I would wander in and out of the pool room that just so happened to be within walking distance of the apartment I shared with my "college" buddies. I'm 33 percent convinced it was a gift from the devil himself. Anyway, I eventually started working there part-time in order to get the free pool time. The place was called Playtime Billiards and it was in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It was an interesting couple of years to say the least. I would roll out of bed and instead of walking north towards campus, I would walk south towards the pool room. One day I was in there working on this crazy stroke shot that I'll try to explain: You have the 9 sitting in the jaws of one corner pocket. The 8 is on the side rail, between the adjacent corner and side pocket. The cue ball is placed about 3 feet away, maybe with a little less than a half ball hit angle. So you pocket the 8 with maximum low-left english (I think), probably more spin than actual draw. The cue ball spins back hitting 3 rails and pocketing the 9. It's quite the shot to see in person. (I'll try to throw up a picture)
Anyway, I'm struggling with this dumb shot, getting close at times, and failing miserably at others. In walks Nathan Haddad, he was working there at the time too. He was clearly the best player in town. He was really an up and comer at one point before he got sidetracked. I believe he won the BCA Junior Championship back when this tourney was turning out a list of champions annually. He watched me flailing away at the shot for a minute or two and said, "Give me one try for twenty." He was half serious about betting on it as he wasn't afraid to gamble but he ended up trying it for fun. Anyway, he grabs my cue, takes a few air strokes, shimmies down into position, feathers a few practice strokes, and gets the job done on the first try! Watching him play and practice after hours was really sobering. It helped me get back on the straight and narrow.
I played a shot in a casual match once that was wild. One spot was hanging over the left side pocket and roughly a foot away is another spot, low percentage shot into the bottom left, low percentage into the bottom right. I called the spot over the side, and I played the tough spot as a 4-rail bank, and screwed into the spot I'd called in the side, which it hit clean, pocketing both balls and running down table slightly leaving me perfectly on the 8. I was super happy with it.
I explained it to my friend later, and set it up to try again. Took me about 20 attempts, and around 45 minutes to recreate it. The boss of the hall I play at (previously a very high level player), strolls over, picks up a house cue... first try. I can DM you a link to my IG so you can see the shot in question.
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Did you get it in the end?Back in the late 90's, for a couple of years I avoided my college courses like the black plague. Instead, I would wander in and out of the pool room that just so happened to be within walking distance of the apartment I shared with my "college" buddies. I'm 33 percent convinced it was a gift from the devil himself. Anyway, I eventually started working there part-time in order to get the free pool time. The place was called Playtime Billiards and it was in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It was an interesting couple of years to say the least. I would roll out of bed and instead of walking north towards campus, I would walk south towards the pool room. One day I was in there working on this crazy stroke shot that I'll try to explain: You have the 9 sitting in the jaws of one corner pocket. The 8 is on the side rail, between the adjacent corner and side pocket. The cue ball is placed about 3 feet away, maybe with a little less than a half ball hit angle. So you pocket the 8 with maximum low-left english (I think), probably more spin than actual draw. The cue ball spins back hitting 3 rails and pocketing the 9. It's quite the shot to see in person. (I'll try to throw up a picture)
Anyway, I'm struggling with this dumb shot, getting close at times, and failing miserably at others. In walks Nathan Haddad, he was working there at the time too. He was clearly the best player in town. He was really an up and comer at one point before he got sidetracked. I believe he won the BCA Junior Championship back when this tourney was turning out a list of champions annually. He watched me flailing away at the shot for a minute or two and said, "Give me one try for twenty." He was half serious about betting on it as he wasn't afraid to gamble but he ended up trying it for fun. Anyway, he grabs my cue, takes a few air strokes, shimmies down into position, feathers a few practice strokes, and gets the job done on the first try! Watching him play and practice after hours was really sobering. It helped me get back on the straight and narrow.
*** Now I think about it, the cue ball may been much further down table.
Here's Larry Nevel shooting it.
I suppose shots like this might tell you if a player was in the top 1000, but that's about it. Even I have been able to make that shot.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
This was a video of Ali Carter doing snakey Ali Carter things.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
The link you posted previously was Ali Carter... (you can see above in the quote section of my comment)
but never mind, It's ok, I can see the Larry Nevel shot now
Larry's shooting it as more of a circus shot on a bar table, with a jacked up cue. We were shooting it as more of a pure flat stroke shot. Not taking anything away from Nevel's amazing stroke. I saw him do these types of shots in person a couple times. I wouldn't use these extreme shots as a gauge but definitely the more difficult shots that are mentioned in the thread.
Not that day but I did later. I remember who was standing there and that I used a house cue instead of my own.
Sooo.... There was a guy who played snooker in my usual hangout. Real 12x6 snooker tables with the fuzzy cloth and real 2 1/16 snooker balls.
I mentioned a prop bet: put the blue on its spot and the cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket -- well out a little so you can bridge. Pot the blue in the far corner and draw the cue ball straight back for the scratch. (Some would say screw the cue ball back for the in-off.) "I can do that." "You got ten tries for ten." He made it on the eighth try. Worth the price of admission.
But I think this is yet another shot that's poor at separating the wheat from the chaff. Might as well try cutting a spotted ball into your pocket from the jaws of your opponent's pocket.
I mentioned a prop bet: put the blue on its spot and the cue ball in the jaws of the corner pocket -- well out a little so you can bridge. Pot the blue in the far corner and draw the cue ball straight back for the scratch. (Some would say screw the cue ball back for the in-off.) "I can do that." "You got ten tries for ten." He made it on the eighth try. Worth the price of admission.
But I think this is yet another shot that's poor at separating the wheat from the chaff. Might as well try cutting a spotted ball into your pocket from the jaws of your opponent's pocket.
Yeah, you might not want to do that to your own tip.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I saw the late Paul Hunter play a ridiculous shot in an exhibition match near my hometown. A shot I'm sure many have seen, or done themselves on a 9-footer. But ludicrous on a 12-foot snooker table imo
Object ball flush in the middle of the bottom cushion, cueball at the baulk end (behind the headstring if we're talking pool) dead straight. Cutting it into a bottom corner.
Blew my teenage mind. He also gave my dad a good smashing in the single frame they played. My dad stood up twice. Once to break, once to shake his hand.
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On a pool table, the challenge is to play the shot from about a diamond harder:
The frozen 90-degree shot is not much harder on a snooker table. For a real snooker test, for a respotted black, place the cue ball on the yellow spot and cut the black into the top pocket to your right. No, I did not confuse yellow and green or right and left.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
I'll give this a try later. I've done it straight. I have also done it playing the CB perched on top of the top of the rail (which took less attempts than I thought it would)
I guess not with the napped cloth. But as a teenager it really hurt my brain to see. The shot you suggested is also a total madness! Going to have a look on YouTube see if I can find someone making it. I can't imagine it being lower than a 1/100 shot for anyone.
Let me demonstrate another shot to measure your, level/stroke.
The shot is, 'Ball First'! Not cushion first. The CB in this example is Only 2 diamonds away from the OB. Not 5-6 diamonds away where the CB has time take a sizable 'curve'.
The shot is, 'Ball First'! Not cushion first. The CB in this example is Only 2 diamonds away from the OB. Not 5-6 diamonds away where the CB has time take a sizable 'curve'.
This is insane, I saw this video about 10-12 years ago when I was a teenager and didn't know the shooter. Now the shooter is posting it on this forum.
Incredibly difficult shot. I don't think I could even make that in 10 tries.
Edit: 100 tries.