Individual Sports The Greats Make The Game

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
My background in sports runs deep, from Olympics to pro.
My families background sets my thinking/Chicago Black Hawks/Cleveland Browns & Terry McDermott Olympic Gold Medalist.
I love watching the greats like Nadal, Nicklaus, Federer, SVB, and any of them, that get in the hunt 10-20 years past their youthful prime it's Good/GREAT for the Sport and the attendees.
Phil Michelson is a good Example of winning a major Later in his life.
As is Freddy Couples.
And PLEASE don't politicize this thread because of Phil, he's just an example.
If you must, take it somewhere else.

When any sport changes, creates and sets specs, they MUST think of the Greats, the HOF players that still play, and can win, tho not as often.
What would happen to golf if they made the cup size Smaller?
What would happen to tennis if they made the Ball diameter smaller?
What would happen to Basketball if the ball was smaller?
What would happen to Hockey if the puck was smaller.

You'd need to be younger and have Greater Eyesight.

Pro Pool pockets need to set standards, and ones NOT TOO SMALL.
It ruins the game for ALL.

bm

I want to see the greats sneak in the last day of play....because of their skills/knowledge great demeanor and character, it's good for ALL.
 
Well there gonna be, per MR 4'' corners with a 5/16 facing.
Basically their 4 1/8''with a thicker facing.
Nice.
 
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This is a minor quibble but it has been mentioned in other threads that have discussed similar issues. I am referring to the size of the hole in golf. It actually did change in a sense. What changed was when they went to the larger ball. I don't know when the American ball became the standard here and the smaller one was still played in R&A land. When the R&A and USGA went uniform on ball size the British 1.62"ball was no more. That makes the hole a little smaller effectively. I wasn't a very big change I guess, but it was a change. The size change may have had a bigger effect on shots other than putts. I dunno. A quick look tells me it was 1973 where the size was changed.

Now for fun maybe a manufacturer could make a run of 1.62 balls that are a little heavy and don't comply with any of the rules. See if guys could get 400 out of them routinely.;)
 
JPB2 said:
This is a minor quibble but it has been mentioned in other threads that have discussed similar issues. I am referring to the size of the hole in golf. It actually did change in a sense. What changed was when they went to the larger ball. I don't know when the American ball became the standard here and the smaller one was still played in R&A land. When the R&A and USGA went uniform on ball size the British 1.62"ball was no more. That makes the hole a little smaller effectively. I wasn't a very big change I guess, but it was a change. The size change may have had a bigger effect on shots other than putts. I dunno. A quick look tells me it was 1973 where the size was changed.

Now for fun maybe a manufacturer could make a run of 1.62 balls that are a little heavy and don't comply with any of the rules. See if guys could get 400 out of them routinely.;)
Click to expand...
Years ago I bought some non conforming golf balls that were a little smaller and had a metal core,I could hit one off the tee with a driver and eat lunch while it was still in the air.
Well maybe not quite but they did go a lot farther than a conforming ball.
 
While I agree with the spirit of the original post, I'd say we are still getting those moments in pool from the veterans. Not only do they make deep runs, but they still win.

SVB won the 2024 Premier League Pool this March against a field that included Gorst, FSR, Filler, Shaw, and both of the Ko brothers. At age 53, Ralf Souquet won gold at the 2022 European Championships. Niels Feijen was European 9ball Champion at age 45. Veteran David Alcaide won a major last year aged 44.

I'm not convinced that the toughening of the equipment will reduce the number of times we see established stars of the past make deep runs in big events. Guess we'll see.
 
Changes always happen in every sport. That's just part of life. There will always be the question of how players from the past would perform today with all of the changes. Golfers are no longer using hickory shafts. Golf balls have changed many times over the years. Pool table pockets, cloth, balls, and rules have all changed over the years. Keep up with the changes or get left in the dust...
 
measureman said:
Years ago I bought some non conforming golf balls that were a little smaller and had a metal core,I could hit one off the tee with a driver and eat lunch while it was still in the air.
Well maybe not quite but they did go a lot farther than a conforming ball.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember the ads for the illegal balls. I never really tried them. A friend had some of the small balls. I think a name brand. I don’t remember it in detail. I want to say the old Gart Brothers sports castle had some of the British balls.
 
sjm said:
While I agree with the spirit of the original post, I'd say we are still getting those moments in pool from the veterans. Not only do they make deep runs, but they still win.

SVB won the 2024 Premier League Pool this March against a field that included Gorst, FSR, Filler, Shaw, and both of the Ko brothers. At age 53, Ralf Souquet won gold at the 2022 European Championships. Niels Feijen was European 9ball Champion at age 45. Veteran David Alcaide won a major last year aged 44.

I'm not convinced that the toughening of the equipment will reduce the number of times we see established stars of the past make deep runs in big events. Guess we'll see.
Click to expand...
I agree it is hard to say. Some “equipment” changes promote longevity i.e. health and fitness improvements that lengthen careers and keep older guys competitive longer. Rules or equipment that favor power or other more youthful attributes might hurt the older players. Hard to say on this issue
 
It is not a level playing field for old and young or we would see many more older players still extremely competitive.

However, it has to be said there is no reason there should be a level playing field. The best of the best should win.

In pool we had Efren and very few more. Old eyes, but old bodies don't function as well either. Somebody may have a short run but odds of old players winning are pretty slim. Some things experience and cunning helps, some it doesn't help.

Hu
 
sjm said:
I'm not convinced that the toughening of the equipment will reduce the number of times we see established stars of the past make deep runs in big events. Guess we'll see.
Click to expand...
I agree. It's the toughness of your opponent that makes the game difficult. Softer equipment may mean I have a better chance to run out a set and beat a top player, but it also means that if he gets to the table, he is less likely to miss or have a dry break. I think what's happening in pool is that instruction and youtube videos mean people in their 20s have the understanding that used to take decades to gain, and the young body to execute. It's harder for experience to outpace the physical decline that comes with aging. At least with pool, the physical requirements are relatively modest.
 
Bill the players learned they had to be able to kick and jump accurately to escape safeties. Just getting a hit doesn't win games. The tighter pockets are going to elevate the need for better position and I believe the players will rise to the demand.

One must realize almost all of the big trnmnts are on new cloth and that makes pocketing balls way easier. The tighter pockets takes some of that away.
 
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The most gut level test of individual competition in sports is epitomized in boxing.
Just two competitors in a ring for 30 -36 mins (10 rds. or championship 12 rds).

The rules don’t change often and the contest is as raw & basic as ever there was one.
You beat the other to a pulp before he does the very same to you & blood will be shed.

There are no safeties, or freeze outs and when you make a mistake, you feel real pain.
The concept extends back to the time of Rome & gladiators when men fought to the death.

Two combatants fighting to the death became more civilized down through history but many
people still feel boxing is a brutal sport; boxers have died from injuries sustained in their bout.

Billiards is a entirely different contest since physical differences in the player such as height,
weight, strength, arm reach, speed, endurance, power…..those things do not matter in pool.

And since in pool, you are never bruised, bleed, need stitches, get concussed or are physically
at a disadvantage to your opponent like in other one on one competitions, it has added appeal.
 
Island Drive said:
My background in sports runs deep, from Olympics to pro.
My families background sets my thinking/Chicago Black Hawks/Cleveland Browns & Terry McDermott Olympic Gold Medalist.
I love watching the greats like Nadal, Nicklaus, Federer, SVB, and any of them, that get in the hunt 10-20 years past their youthful prime it's Good/GREAT for the Sport and the attendees.
Phil Michelson is a good Example of winning a major Later in his life.
As is Freddy Couples.
And PLEASE don't politicize this thread because of Phil, he's just an example.
If you must, take it somewhere else.

When any sport changes, creates and sets specs, they MUST think of the Greats, the HOF players that still play, and can win, tho not as often.
What would happen to golf if they made the cup size Smaller?
What would happen to tennis if they made the Ball diameter smaller?
What would happen to Basketball if the ball was smaller?
What would happen to Hockey if the puck was smaller.

You'd need to be younger and have Greater Eyesight.

Pro Pool pockets need to set standards, and ones NOT TOO SMALL.
It ruins the game for ALL.

bm

I want to see the greats sneak in the last day of play....because of their skills/knowledge great demeanor and character, it's good for ALL.
Click to expand...
Remember Nicklaus won the Masters (6th time …..all time record) before his 47th birthday.
Winning the PGA at 50 is remarkable but the Masters, it is the premier tournament to win.
 
Yeah, I just think the GAME should allow the greats to be in the hunt.
If the pockets are made too small, it becomes more of an eyesight issue in my department.
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Remember Wu won the worlds when he was 16, but the depth of field with the younger players was not present yet, as it is now.
 
Island Drive said:
When any sport changes, creates and sets specs, they MUST think of the Greats, the HOF players that still play, and can win, tho not as often.
What would happen to golf if they made the cup size Smaller?
What would happen to tennis if they made the Ball diameter smaller?
What would happen to Basketball if the ball was smaller?
What would happen to Hockey if the puck was smaller.
Click to expand...

What would happen to pool if they moved the rack forward to put the game ball on the spot ??
What would happen to pool if they restricted where you could break from in the kitchen ??
What would happen to pool if they made the minimum break have 2-3-4 ball above the head string ??
What would happen to pool if they .....

Oh wait -- they have already have !!
 
Bavafongoul said:
The most gut level test of individual competition in sports is epitomized in boxing.
Just two competitors in a ring for 30 -36 mins (10 rds. or championship 12 rds).

The rules don’t change often and the contest is as raw & basic as ever there was one.
You beat the other to a pulp before he does the very same to you & blood will be shed.

There are no safeties, or freeze outs and when you make a mistake, you feel real pain.
The concept extends back to the time of Rome & gladiators when men fought to the death.

Two combatants fighting to the death became more civilized down through history but many
people still feel boxing is a brutal sport; boxers have died from injuries sustained in their bout.

Billiards is a entirely different contest since physical differences in the player such as height,
weight, strength, arm reach, speed, endurance, power…..those things do not matter in pool.

And since in pool, you are never bruised, bleed, need stitches, get concussed or are physically
at a disadvantage to your opponent like in other one on one competitions, it has added appeal.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine was a pro boxer until he started waking up unable to talk clearly. Before it got worse he quit. He was ranked top twenty in the world by Ring magazine most of his career but in weight classes that weren't popular and didn't pay much. He was able to pay cash for a pretty nice house and five acres when he retired.

It was funny, his fiancé didn't tell her parents she was dating a pro boxer so every few months or so he would come to pick her up with a pair of black eyes and his face beaten out of shape. Light skinned boxers look rough for a week or so. Debbie was proud though, he won! I think it was right before they got married that the secret was revealed.

I had boxed backyard and in school, was a winner. Tom was probably six inches shorter and I had close to a foot of reach on him. We sparred with sixteen ounce gloves sometimes. No contest! Put the gloves on Tom and the light of humanity went out in his eyes. Training and reflexes took over and I didn't have a chance in hell. Neither did a several times over black belt in karate that was maybe four inches taller than I am and very fit. Towered almost a foot over Tom, didn't matter!

Hu
 
eyesight has always been important. and old guys do win, they just don't look as old as 40+ year olds used to. could be argued david alcaide is playing the best he ever has. ralf isn't doing bad either considering the competition, it's actually quite a feat what he's doing. what they have in common is dedication and lifestyle.. i bet ralf is still does his running, alcaide probably exercises too.
 
Bavafongoul said:
The most gut level test of individual competition in sports is epitomized in boxing.
Just two competitors in a ring for 30 -36 mins (10 rds. or championship 12 rds).

The rules don’t change often and the contest is as raw & basic as ever there was one.
You beat the other to a pulp before he does the very same to you & blood will be shed.

There are no safeties, or freeze outs and when you make a mistake, you feel real pain.
The concept extends back to the time of Rome & gladiators when men fought to the death.

Two combatants fighting to the death became more civilized down through history but many
people still feel boxing is a brutal sport; boxers have died from injuries sustained in their bout.

Billiards is a entirely different contest since physical differences in the player such as height,
weight, strength, arm reach, speed, endurance, power…..those things do not matter in pool.

And since in pool, you are never bruised, bleed, need stitches, get concussed or are physically
at a disadvantage to your opponent like in other one on one competitions, it has added appeal.
Click to expand...
Fat people can play pool. That is all we need to know.

I still think there are some physical requirements. There is a reason why a fat guy hasn't been dominant in pool since Minnesota Fats.

You don't want to be a heavy set because you're going to need the stamina to dance around the table.
 
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