What Is The Most Over Rated Cue?
- Thread starter Bill Yerd
- Start date
How the hell can southwest are overrated.......you pay a 2000$ for a new southwest and year later you can easily sell it for 2500$...
i guess you are absolutelty misunderstood with the "underrated and overrated" idea.
No, I think many people "understand". They are just looking at it from a different point-of-view than you.
You are looking at it from an investment standpoint. Many on here (myself included) are looking at this from a PLAYERS standpoint. If my thinking was to flip the cue a year later, then no, a Southwest is NOT an overrated cue. Make no mistake here, I am not saying Southwest makes bad cues. On the contrary, they make GREAT cues. But, if you're just wanting a cue that plays well (which is highly subjective), then a $5,000 cue from them is overrated in many peoples opinions. IOW, you can find a "playing" cue with a hit/feel close enough (if not exactly the same) to the Southwest as to save yourself thousands of dollars off the price of getting what you're looking for. Like I said many posts ago, you are mostly paying for the name. The materials, craftmanship, time spent, and finished product are no better than many other custom cuemakers cues I have seen that cost much less (keep in mind, I'm looking at this from a players standpoint).
Obviously, many people feel this way, and...it's their opinions and an opinion is neither right nor wrong.
Maniac
Personally, I'm loving all these car references. And hanging around car people most of my life I'm fairly used to this "my car is better than your car"/"ford vs. chevy vs dodge" argument. Nobody is ever going to win it. Unless of course all fords (cause i'm a chevy chick :wink
Same with cues. I'd argue that it's, at least partially, an emotional thing. You get attached to a cue - love it despite its faults. Like a car. Someone might hear the rattle when you turn on the A/C and think the car sucks; it's over rated. You hear it as a lovable quirk.
On another note -- what's all this talk about people selling their cues? Maybe I'm just sentimental but I don't think I could ever sell mine - even for a profit (which it would never get).
Chevy chick.. ok we will forgive you... lol
JV (---has family in Chenango County NY
1. $5000.00 for a new S.W.?? I keep seeing this mentioned. I believe a new one is around $2500-2700.00 first off.
2. Are they worth it? Yes because thats what they sell for because pool players have set this price for them.
3. Are they worth is, absolutely!
4. There is a contingent of people who are simply S.W. haters! Pure and simple. If you don't like, don't buy.
5. There is also comments made about butt or shafts have the usual wobble which is common for a S.W. when I see one for sale. It is just one of those deals were someone says something, then everyone thinks its a fact. I own several and they are dead straight! S.W would probably be the most likely not to warp that you can find. Fact is they always seem to have a way of getting their hands on the best woods and their turning process is second to none..
2. Are they worth it? Yes because thats what they sell for because pool players have set this price for them.
3. Are they worth is, absolutely!
4. There is a contingent of people who are simply S.W. haters! Pure and simple. If you don't like, don't buy.
5. There is also comments made about butt or shafts have the usual wobble which is common for a S.W. when I see one for sale. It is just one of those deals were someone says something, then everyone thinks its a fact. I own several and they are dead straight! S.W would probably be the most likely not to warp that you can find. Fact is they always seem to have a way of getting their hands on the best woods and their turning process is second to none..
GearHead_1
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒ&
I'm a long time lurker to this forum but have only recently joined. I genuinely mean no offense with these comments, they are no doubt worth exactly what you are paying to read them.
There are definitely some tremendous players (you know who you are) on this board. The surmations I make in this post are not directed towards these highly skilled players.
I suspect that many cues that fall in the $300 - $400 price range have the potential to rise above the average guy's true ability. When comparing a remarkable player holding a $150 cue to an intermediate player holding a $2000 cue, it might seem as if one cue is over-rated. We all know that this just isn't the case. If the roles were reversed then perhaps it would not be so easy to make the same call.
It's all but impossible to make an apples to apples call and give a qualified opinion to the OP's original question. This, simply because the average guy can't sample 10 so called great cues one next to the other under the same conditions. A player might get his hands on several different cues and make an honest evaluation but even then circumstances change. Let's face it most of us have off days. I can see it being easy to slam an otherwise great cue or glorify a run of the mill cue in just such an instance.
This all said, I know I'm one of those average run of mill players. I seek to improve my game every time I step up to the table but it is what it is. A high end cue in the hands of a mediocre player (like me) will leave some of that potential on the table. If it doesn't make me a markedly better player I might see it as being over-rated. Conversely a great player holding a so-so cue can make that cue look pretty amazing. I know for a fact there are many $300 cues that are better cues than I am player.
There also has to be a certain price point where one pays for a name or aesthetics, the cues potential can't help your game past a certain point. I don't know where that price point happens to be. When a cue stops being able to "do something" for you either in the way of making you a better player, improving your collection, increasing your wealth or what have you, regardless of make or model it becomes over-rated. :wink:
There are definitely some tremendous players (you know who you are) on this board. The surmations I make in this post are not directed towards these highly skilled players.
I suspect that many cues that fall in the $300 - $400 price range have the potential to rise above the average guy's true ability. When comparing a remarkable player holding a $150 cue to an intermediate player holding a $2000 cue, it might seem as if one cue is over-rated. We all know that this just isn't the case. If the roles were reversed then perhaps it would not be so easy to make the same call.
It's all but impossible to make an apples to apples call and give a qualified opinion to the OP's original question. This, simply because the average guy can't sample 10 so called great cues one next to the other under the same conditions. A player might get his hands on several different cues and make an honest evaluation but even then circumstances change. Let's face it most of us have off days. I can see it being easy to slam an otherwise great cue or glorify a run of the mill cue in just such an instance.
This all said, I know I'm one of those average run of mill players. I seek to improve my game every time I step up to the table but it is what it is. A high end cue in the hands of a mediocre player (like me) will leave some of that potential on the table. If it doesn't make me a markedly better player I might see it as being over-rated. Conversely a great player holding a so-so cue can make that cue look pretty amazing. I know for a fact there are many $300 cues that are better cues than I am player.
There also has to be a certain price point where one pays for a name or aesthetics, the cues potential can't help your game past a certain point. I don't know where that price point happens to be. When a cue stops being able to "do something" for you either in the way of making you a better player, improving your collection, increasing your wealth or what have you, regardless of make or model it becomes over-rated. :wink:
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Well said Saint,these guys only seem to bash SW,not Scruggs,Mottey,White,Manzino,ect even though these cues cost just as much or even more!Yet many of these makers also copy SW cues,amazing!
I'm not as familiar with Balabushka cues, but I've owned two SW cues for roughly 25 years, and I don't see myself ever parting with either.
I've been playing pool for four and a half decades. I can't say how many cues I've hit over the years, but suffice to say, it's a lot. And I can say without equivocation, these are the two best hitting cues I've ever used. The sad thing is, I've never hit anything that was really close.
Over the years, I've enjoyed showing the cues to top players and letting them hit them. Invariably, after hitting a few balls, they start to realize feel that is unfamiliar. The sonic report, the vibration through the handle, and the way the cue so quickly feels as one with one's arm, sets these cues on another plane of feel and performance. Interestingly, however, these cues don't hit the same. One, that is primarily cocobolo, has a sharp hit; the other, of tulipwood, has just as much resonance, but its tone is more mellow. I cannot pick between the two, at least not a choice that lasts.
Tony Watson, a legendary talent from this area, says the tulipwood cue is the best cue he's ever played with. Every time he sees me at a tournament, he asks to borrow it. But Brian White, also a superb local player, says the cocobolo cue is the best he's ever played with. He too wants to hit it whenever we cross paths.
Thirty years ago, when I ordered my SW cue, the wait was 3 years. Even that seemed interminable. 10 years? That's tough. So I guess it's natural to want to discredit what you can't have.
I have to laugh at the guys who swear the current SW cues don't hit or play like those of Jerry's days. I think that is pure BS.
I have been to their manufacturing facility, and I've been friends with Lori forever. (We are from the same hometown in Connecticut.) I know that NOTHING significant has changed in the manufacture of SW cues over the years. Lori ALWAYS selected, purchased, stored and cured the woods. And Jerry's nephew, Mike, does the labor and craft, same as he did when Jerry was alive. Mike was with Jerry and Lori almost from the beginning of SW. That basically was the company--Jerry, Lori and Mike. Now it's Lori and Mike. So, the woods are the same, the manufacturing is the same, they use the exact same equipment (lathes, planers, ect), and the exact same assembly procedures. Therefore, it annoys the sh*t out of me that someone with no idea what they are talking about would say a new SW is inferior to a pre-date. Absurd. The only thing that would make an early SW superior to a current cue is its provinence, not playability or quality.
I try to never hit with a cue (say a Southwest) and immediately say "Southwest's hit GREAT!"...
THAT Southwest hit great... To ME... Doesn't mean all Southwest's hit great to everyone or even that all Southwest's hit great to me...
Only on rare occassions have I bought cues without personally holding them first and hitting some balls... That is the only real way to know if the cue is going to be good for you...
If you buy a cue sight unseen you are playing Russian Roulette... Might work out, might not...
I bought an expensive Joss West about 25 years ago from John Wright, sight unseen...
I was so excited when it came and when I finally got to hit with it I HATED it... Bar none the worst cue I have ever played with...
Nice thing about that cue, though, was the name on the butt plate... Helped me move it a lot faster and for more value than I could have something else...
Not to say that ALL Joss West cues are bad, just that one was bad for ME... It would be easy for me to say based on that experience that JW are overrated... But that would be unfair and untrue...
So, for me there is no such thing as overrated or underrated...
Overpriced and underpriced is another conversation...
THAT Southwest hit great... To ME... Doesn't mean all Southwest's hit great to everyone or even that all Southwest's hit great to me...
Only on rare occassions have I bought cues without personally holding them first and hitting some balls... That is the only real way to know if the cue is going to be good for you...
If you buy a cue sight unseen you are playing Russian Roulette... Might work out, might not...
I bought an expensive Joss West about 25 years ago from John Wright, sight unseen...
I was so excited when it came and when I finally got to hit with it I HATED it... Bar none the worst cue I have ever played with...
Nice thing about that cue, though, was the name on the butt plate... Helped me move it a lot faster and for more value than I could have something else...
Not to say that ALL Joss West cues are bad, just that one was bad for ME... It would be easy for me to say based on that experience that JW are overrated... But that would be unfair and untrue...
So, for me there is no such thing as overrated or underrated...
Overpriced and underpriced is another conversation...
I know the car analogies have been done... but it really comes down to this....
You can buy a pretty nice Toyota Camry with a V6 and have a pretty nice car.
Or you can choose to buy a Lexus ES350 with almost identical V6, wtih the Lexus getting a few more tweaks.,, but the fit, finish and quality is gonna be a little better. The interior leather, the woods, even the plastics are gonna be top of the line compared to what is used in the Toyota. Heck, Lexus set the standard for reinventing good looking interiors.....
And though they are essentially the same car platform, the body panels on the Lexus is completley different on every panel..... including the tail lights.
Thus, either way you are gettting a pretty good car. With the Lexus you are now driving more of a piece of art with the reall walnut wood trim, and top of the line leather, better stereo, etc.
And it does NOT hurt that Lexus is rated as the best built vehicle for the the last 7 or 8 years running by JD Powers..
Those that buy Toyota's don't really understand why someone would pay $15K more for the Lexus. Those that pay the $15K understand and can most likely afford to. To each their own. Somebody saved $15K, and someone else is driving a nicer car... it's win/win.
A $20K cue it NOT gonna make you shoot better, but it is a playable work of art, and thus you don't have to just hang it on the wall to enjoy it.
Supply and Demand, plus quality, plus reputation, plus customer service gets you some pretty well deserved respect in the pool cue world. And that is what SW has done these last few decades.......
And this is all said by someone who is not a fan of SW.... I know the quality and everything else is there,,, just not my style personally, and thus why we have many cuemakers so I can chose the one I like.....
They earned the rep they have and don't really deserve any negative posts since they are one of the few companies that do things the "right" way....
You can buy a pretty nice Toyota Camry with a V6 and have a pretty nice car.
Or you can choose to buy a Lexus ES350 with almost identical V6, wtih the Lexus getting a few more tweaks.,, but the fit, finish and quality is gonna be a little better. The interior leather, the woods, even the plastics are gonna be top of the line compared to what is used in the Toyota. Heck, Lexus set the standard for reinventing good looking interiors.....
And though they are essentially the same car platform, the body panels on the Lexus is completley different on every panel..... including the tail lights.
Thus, either way you are gettting a pretty good car. With the Lexus you are now driving more of a piece of art with the reall walnut wood trim, and top of the line leather, better stereo, etc.
And it does NOT hurt that Lexus is rated as the best built vehicle for the the last 7 or 8 years running by JD Powers..
Those that buy Toyota's don't really understand why someone would pay $15K more for the Lexus. Those that pay the $15K understand and can most likely afford to. To each their own. Somebody saved $15K, and someone else is driving a nicer car... it's win/win.
A $20K cue it NOT gonna make you shoot better, but it is a playable work of art, and thus you don't have to just hang it on the wall to enjoy it.
Supply and Demand, plus quality, plus reputation, plus customer service gets you some pretty well deserved respect in the pool cue world. And that is what SW has done these last few decades.......
And this is all said by someone who is not a fan of SW.... I know the quality and everything else is there,,, just not my style personally, and thus why we have many cuemakers so I can chose the one I like.....
They earned the rep they have and don't really deserve any negative posts since they are one of the few companies that do things the "right" way....
What Is The Most Over Rated Cue?
____________________________
The "Artistic Cue".
That is, a cue of little functionality built solely as a work of art and sold at ridiculous prices. A cue that ultimately boils down to expensive inlays/parts and little design quality.
____________________________
The "Artistic Cue".
That is, a cue of little functionality built solely as a work of art and sold at ridiculous prices. A cue that ultimately boils down to expensive inlays/parts and little design quality.
What is your deal with all the 'what's the best'/ 'what's the worst' questions?
One with a little common sense would understand that there is no 'best', once there are choices established.
What's the best car? What's the best food? What's the best shoe...?
WTF?! There is no prize for starting the most threads.
Most overated cue
All I wanna know,what do yall think of my Avatar??????And no,I have nothing for sale and this is not the wanted for sale section!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All I wanna know,what do yall think of my Avatar??????And no,I have nothing for sale and this is not the wanted for sale section!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i dunno that much to comment ive not had alot of cues.. in the 80ties when billiards was hot big time my meucci played good , i was 17 it was first cue i bought and still own .
i have 2 varney cues , he lived bout 1our from me , his cues played well . i still own a cue he made just for being good friend was not expecting it .
now my buddy has alot of cues . i love how his lambros plays , i tried 3 of his southwest cues and blah ,he has since sold them , they are
an enigma same patterns mostly sucky hit . i know wait list is in the years but i wouldnt wait a week . but some love them ,
manzino average
rick howard under rated and plays well
it all in the end doesnt matter people are so different there is no right answer . the speakeasy in my town years ago had 3 szams thats where i first found out about them . 2 hit great one felt like a dead fud when playing . ive got 9 foot table ive had ince 94 been forever since i played , but now i got grand kids and my grand daughter who is 5 is a pool nut , if she continues she will be good im living thry her now i wont be around next year so im told in so many words but its up to god i might be might not , but my bucket list is a szam and im gonna leave it to her . think about whats really important , and enjoy what you got . i even got a deano that hits well lol
i have 2 varney cues , he lived bout 1our from me , his cues played well . i still own a cue he made just for being good friend was not expecting it .
now my buddy has alot of cues . i love how his lambros plays , i tried 3 of his southwest cues and blah ,he has since sold them , they are
an enigma same patterns mostly sucky hit . i know wait list is in the years but i wouldnt wait a week . but some love them ,
manzino average
rick howard under rated and plays well
it all in the end doesnt matter people are so different there is no right answer . the speakeasy in my town years ago had 3 szams thats where i first found out about them . 2 hit great one felt like a dead fud when playing . ive got 9 foot table ive had ince 94 been forever since i played , but now i got grand kids and my grand daughter who is 5 is a pool nut , if she continues she will be good im living thry her now i wont be around next year so im told in so many words but its up to god i might be might not , but my bucket list is a szam and im gonna leave it to her . think about whats really important , and enjoy what you got . i even got a deano that hits well lol
Isn't that all subjective?? I like a very particular feedback from my cues, most Schons just happen to fit that bill very nicely for me so I see it differently than you do. People often ask me to hit with their cue, probably because I still use a wood shaft and they usually have carbon, so far every shaft/butt combo I have hit feels like the tip is made of cork. They never seem to have a nice crisp hit or very much "feel", at least to me. Yet when I ask everyone of them will say that their cue hits great, so apparently what one person likes another may not. So you may think Schon is over rated but odds are there are many who will disagree. There are also at least 3 generations of Schon, Runde, Clark, and whoever is building them now, so far all 3 have been unique.
I play a lot of pool with a guy that has a Black Boar.
I've hit a few balls with it and it hits fine but no better then my Schmelke.
He paid $6K for the Boar and loves it.
I paid $230 for the Schmelke and love it.
Go figure.
I've hit a few balls with it and it hits fine but no better then my Schmelke.
He paid $6K for the Boar and loves it.
I paid $230 for the Schmelke and love it.
Go figure.
