"Diamondizing" A Table Thread

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I've read about diamondizing a table in another thread to a small degree. But since i've already got one of the ultimate tables - that being a Gold Crown IV - it got me to thinking about some things. So, i thought i'd start a discussion of this topic. here goes......

1) Why would i want to change a Gold Crown when tons and tons of major championships were played on it for 30+ years and its still considered either the best or 2nd best table out there?

2) What would be done to a Gold Crown IV if it were diamondized?

3) What are the costs? how long does it take? can it be done at my home?

4) Does diamondizing a Gold Crown IV actually make it play better? or just play different?

Mike
 

Matt Stockman

give me the 7 & a whiskey
Silver Member
The main changes will be to the pockets. Your table will be much more challenging to play on. You will learn to pay close attention to how throw effects aim, and how different shot angles show you different parts of the pocket and the different speeds the ball will need to travel to be successfully accepted by the pockets.

It will frustrate you, but It will also make you a much better player.

When I have a little dough hanging around I plan on trying to get this process done to my gold crown 3. The table I have has 4.5ish corners. I say "ish" because I believe it was a shim job. The dimensions are all slightly different, and I'm almost certain the proper attention was not paid to the down angles and other specific geometry that's required to have a perfectly set up table.

I will hit shots that I swear are perfect into certain pockets and they jar every time. I't drives me crazy.

ok, enough rambling! If you can afford to have your GC done up right - definitely do it!!
 
Last edited:

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why would anyone want to screw up a brunswick table.

Agreed. I think they play hard enough already. Maybe that is just because I am not as good as some on here. While I can see making the pockets 4.5", I can't see a reason why I would want the shelves to be deeper when they have been this way for decades.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
How could you say that it will make him a much better player.
That is just absurd.

That table doesn't teach you how to do anything different.
Someone comes along and does a few things to a table and comes up with a little catch phrase. If you think playing on tighter equipment makes all the difference make your pockets 3.75, or shoot full sized balls into a snooker table pocket.

I see plenty of people who think that just by playing snooker (with snooker balls) that their game on a smaller table will be much better. Just another falsehood.

Gold Crown's play great, they have played great for longer than the person who "diamondizes" tables has been around.

The main changes will be to the pockets. Your table will be much more challenging to play on. You will learn to pay close attention to how throw effects aim, and how different shot angles show you different parts of the pocket and the different speeds the ball will need to travel to be successfully accepted by the pockets.

It will frustrate you, but It will also make you a much better player.

When I have a little dough hanging around I plan on trying to get this process done to my gold crown 3. The table I have has 4.5ish corners. I say "ish" because I believe it was a shim job. The dimensions are all slightly different, and I'm almost certain the proper attention was not paid to the down angles and other specific geometry that's required to have a perfectly set up table.

I will hit shots that I swear are perfect into certain pockets and they jar every time. I't drives me crazy.

ok, enough rambling! If you can afford to have your GC done up right - definitely do it!!
 

Matt Stockman

give me the 7 & a whiskey
Silver Member
How could you say that it will make him a much better player.
That is just absurd.

You're right, its not going to teach him proper fundamentals or improve his existing fundamentals, but it is going to improve his concentration & pattern play. Tighter tougher playing pockets will also force him to improve his accuracy.

I see you're a brunswick fan, hey, so am I. I love my GC. It's not set up perfectly, but its still a great table. I fell in love with these table playing on them at Chris's in Chicago, and this will be the last table I ever own.
 

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
This is just a rhetorical question: have you ever heard, even once, of a diamond table owner lamenting that their table does not play as well as a gold crown and that they would be willing to pay to have their table play like one? I don't think so. Why do you think that is???
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Why would anyone want to screw up a brunswick table.

If Brunswick built the perfect table...then I shouldn't be able to take a brand new GC5 and make it play even better than it does new...right? Well, not only can I...but I have...so when you're talking about a "Perfect" table...then find one that IS perfect first...because not even a Brunswick GC is perfect straight off the production line;) Even a new GC has inconsistencies that effect the overall play of the table...pockets and all;)

Glen

PS. It's not about making a table play harder...that's where you all have it wrong...it's all about making the table play consistent with shots being played...balls being pocketed. If they're shot right...they should go in, if not...they're rejected. If Brunswick built the perfect table...then ALL Brunswick GC's would play the exact same...but, I'm here to tell you they don't. You can buy 10 new GC5's...and they won't all play the same...how come that is...if it's a perfect table?
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
How could you say that it will make him a much better player.
That is just absurd.

That table doesn't teach you how to do anything different.
Someone comes along and does a few things to a table and comes up with a little catch phrase. If you think playing on tighter equipment makes all the difference make your pockets 3.75, or shoot full sized balls into a snooker table pocket.

I see plenty of people who think that just by playing snooker (with snooker balls) that their game on a smaller table will be much better. Just another falsehood.

Gold Crown's play great, they have played great for longer than the person who "diamondizes" tables has been around.

You have tighter and 4 1/2" corner pockets mixed up...I don't support 4" corner pockets...as I don't feel they are the correct pocket size for this game...whereas I do feel strongly that 4 1/2" corner pockets are.

Diamondizing is more of a term to describe how a table is going to play after it's calibrated to certain spec's...so that the player can know what to expect from the equipment in relation to how it plays...meaning, closer to that of a "Diamond" pool table. Few in this country...contrary to what you'd like to believe...can "Diamondize" a GC to play more like a Diamond...I should know...I taught them;)

Glen
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
This is just a rhetorical question: have you ever heard, even once, of a diamond table owner lamenting that their table does not play as well as a gold crown and that they would be willing to pay to have their table play like one? I don't think so. Why do you think that is???

You're 100% right, as I've never been asked to make a Diamond play like a Gold Crown...not in all the years I've been working on pool tables:grin:...it's always the other way around..."Can you make my table play more like a Diamond?":grin:...rep sent:grin:

Glen
 

Masirib5

Klaatu barada nikto
Silver Member
Glen is absolutely right

Glen knows more about this than any living human!

--Jeff


If Brunswick built the perfect table...then I shouldn't be able to take a brand new GC5 and make it play even better than it does new...right? Well, not only can I...but I have...so when you're talking about a "Perfect" table...then find one that IS perfect first...because not even a Brunswick GC is perfect straight off the production line;) Even a new GC has inconsistencies that effect the overall play of the table...pockets and all;)

Glen

PS. It's not about making a table play harder...that's where you all have it wrong...it's all about making the table play consistent with shots being played...balls being pocketed. If they're shot right...they should go in, if not...they're rejected. If Brunswick built the perfect table...then ALL Brunswick GC's would play the exact same...but, I'm here to tell you they don't. You can buy 10 new GC5's...and they won't all play the same...how come that is...if it's a perfect table?
 

Donkey Puncher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How could you say that it will make him a much better player.
That is just absurd.

That table doesn't teach you how to do anything different.
Someone comes along and does a few things to a table and comes up with a little catch phrase. If you think playing on tighter equipment makes all the difference make your pockets 3.75, or shoot full sized balls into a snooker table pocket.

I see plenty of people who think that just by playing snooker (with snooker balls) that their game on a smaller table will be much better. Just another falsehood.

Gold Crown's play great, they have played great for longer than the person who "diamondizes" tables has been around.
Another ridiculous post. Aren't you the guy that said Jesse allred couldn't gamble one handed? Anyways, OF COURSE it would make you a better player. There is no way to argue against that, period.
 

atthecat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I've read about diamondizing a table in another thread to a small degree. But since i've already got one of the ultimate tables - that being a Gold Crown IV - it got me to thinking about some things. So, i thought i'd start a discussion of this topic. here goes......

1) Why would i want to change a Gold Crown when tons and tons of major championships were played on it for 30+ years and its still considered either the best or 2nd best table out there?

2) What would be done to a Gold Crown IV if it were diamondized?

3) What are the costs? how long does it take? can it be done at my home?

4) Does diamondizing a Gold Crown IV actually make it play better? or just play different?

Mike
IMO an old Brunswick with Artemis rubber and 4 to 4.25 pockets on Simonis 860 is the ultimate. A real piece of art that will last forever and play out of this world. Get a good table mechanic to set it up.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Another ridiculous post. Aren't you the guy that said Jesse allred couldn't gamble one handed? Anyways, OF COURSE it would make you a better player. There is no way to argue against that, period.

It can actually go either way brother.....playing pool on a snooker table CAN help you to concentrate on center pocket more thus making more balls on the regular table.....

BUT....playing pool on a snooker table can hurt you especially if your a developing player.

WHY, You ask?

For the sole reason that it limits natural CB movement, and inhibits a professional style of play.

You wouldn't want to pratice everything on that kind of table, take speed drills for example.

The pockets are so tight that you can't move your CB around like you normally would to gain the best positions on a run out......you get left long and hard alot and if you get used to that it'll creep into your game and you will be leaving yourself tough and long on the pool table.

Don't say OH well I'm that much more accurate so it wouldn't be a problem to shoot harder or use english while doing it on a pool table.....how hard do you shoot it now? How much english? You been praticing on a equimpent thats tighter, faster, etc etc.....

IMOP if your not playing snooker and want to do some pratice on that table then do single ball drills or the circle drill. Something with minor CB movement thats primarily addressing pocketing and alignment.

The spot shot comes to mind, so does the indian guide as i like to call it (also found in PAT system drills).

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=156925&highlight=indian+guide

It can benefit the pool player to do some pratice on a snooker table but it has its limitations. Put it to you this way if a snooker player was trying to get to move his rock better do you think that he would go pratice on a pool table? He might pratice pocketing or just work on their alignment.....but thats about it.

Alignment and pocketing thats the only two exchangable parts of the two games/tables.

-Grey Ghost-
 
Last edited:

TKS PIZZA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aren't we just full of our self. Obviously you have the final vote. To me Brunswicks will always be the better table. I'm sure many more people feel as I do.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
:grin:
IMO an old Brunswick with Artemis rubber and 4 to 4.25 pockets on Simonis 860 is the ultimate. A real piece of art that will last forever and play out of this world. Get a good table mechanic to set it up.

Here's a little secret for you, seeing's how you THINK you know so much about..."Old Brunswick's" and Artemis cushions;) The cushions on the "old" Brunswick's are 1 1/8" wide...Artemis K55 cushions are 1 1/4" wide...and in order to play right...require a different down angle on the sub-rails to get the nose height correct...BUT...the rails from the factory are not consistent in thickness at the top of the sub-rails...which is where the cushions line up at to set the nose height....and if the rails have different thickness's...then the nose height will also be different from rail to rail. Now, lets take a set of rails Ernesto worked on installing K66 cushions, belt sanding down the tops of the sub-rails to fit the K66 cushions...you'll NEVER get K55 cushions to fit right on ANY of the rails...until you first replace the wood at the top of the sub-rails in order to restore the straight edge on the top of the sub-rails needed to align the cushions....
hmmmmm....quite the dilemma you have going on there making that kind of a statement:grin: Don't even think you can correct the problem with the rails on a table saw....because it's no where near accurate....because how do you cut a bowed rail....straight?

You should really stick to what you DO know something about:grin:...you'd be better off:rolleyes: And since we're on this subject...4" to 4 1/4" pockets...what miter and down angles would they be at to make them play at their best? How thick would the facings be...as they have an effect on the play of the pockets as well?

Glen
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
It can actually go either way brother.....playing pool on a snooker table CAN help you to concentrate on center pocket more thus making more balls on the regular table.....

BUT....playing pool on a snooker table can hurt you especially if your a developing player.

WHY, You ask?

For the sole reason that it limits natural CB movement, and inhibits a professional style of play.

You wouldn't want to pratice everything on that kind of table, take speed drills for example.

The pockets are so tight that you can't move your CB around like you normally would to gain the best positions on a run out......you get left long and hard alot and if you get used to that it'll creep into your game and you will be leaving yourself tough and long on the pool table.

Don't say OH well I'm that much more accurate so it wouldn't be a problem to shoot harder or use english while doing it on a pool table.....how hard do you shoot it now? How much english? You been praticing on a equimpent thats tighter, faster, etc etc.....

IMOP if your not playing snooker and want to do some pratice on that table then do single ball drills or the circle drill. Something with minor CB movement thats primarily addressing pocketing and alignment.

The spot shot comes to mind, so does the indian guide as i like to call it (also found in PAT system drills).

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=156925&highlight=indian+guide

It can benefit the pool player to do some pratice on a snooker table but it has its limitations. Put it to you this way if a snooker player was trying to get to move his rock better do you think that he would go pratice on a pool table? He might pratice pocketing or just work on their alignment.....but thats about it.

Alignment and pocketing thats the only two exchangable parts of the two games/tables.

-Grey Ghost-

I like this guy:grin:...besides that...how many world champion snooker players are there that have also won the world 9ball, 8ball, 14-1, 10ball world championships?
 
Top