"Diamondizing" A Table Thread

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Aren't we just full of our self. Obviously you have the final vote. To me Brunswicks will always be the better table. I'm sure many more people feel as I do.

Less and less everyday:grin: it all depends on Diamond's production run:grin:....but I know of people getting rid of their GC5's to get Diamond's...I think fatboy is selling his GC5 for $3,500 now because I turned his 9ft Diamond ProAm into a monster playing table a few weeks back;)
 

atthecat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:grin:

Here's a little secret for you, seeing's how you THINK you know so much about..."Old Brunswick's" and Artemis cushions;) The cushions on the "old" Brunswick's are 1 1/8" wide...Artemis K55 cushions are 1 1/4" wide...and in order to play right...require a different down angle on the sub-rails to get the nose height correct...BUT...the rails from the factory are not consistent in thickness at the top of the sub-rails...which is where the cushions line up at to set the nose height....and if the rails have different thickness's...then the nose height will also be different from rail to rail. Now, lets take a set of rails Ernesto worked on installing K66 cushions, belt sanding down the tops of the sub-rails to fit the K66 cushions...you'll NEVER get K55 cushions to fit right on ANY of the rails...until you first replace the wood at the top of the sub-rails in order to restore the straight edge on the top of the sub-rails needed to align the cushions....
hmmmmm....quite the dilemma you have going on there making that kind of a statement:grin: Don't even think you can correct the problem with the rails on a table saw....because it's no where near accurate....because how do you cut a bowed rail....straight?

You should really stick to what you DO know something about:grin:...you'd be better off:rolleyes: And since we're on this subject...4" to 4 1/4" pockets...what miter and down angles would they be at to make them play at their best? How thick would the facings be...as they have an effect on the play of the pockets as well?

Glen

Glen, I don't claim to know the proper specs on a pool table and how they work together. All I know is that I've played on a ton of Ernesto's tables and they play great.
 
Last edited:

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Glen, I don't claim to know the proper specs on a pool table and how they work together. All I know is that I've played on tables Ernesto has done and tables you have done. IMO Ernesto's play better. I'm not degrading your work, it's just personal preference.

Really?...which tables have you played on that I rebuilt?;)
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Glen, I don't claim to know the proper specs on a pool table and how they work together. All I know is that I've played on tables Ernesto has done and tables you have done. IMO Ernesto's play better. I'm not degrading your work, it's just personal preference.

Shouldn't be hard to figure out which tables I've rebuilt in California....because I've only worked on a few tables in the whole state....and none near you;)

PS. And only recently....so, you would have had to have played on one of the tables I just finished rebuilding a month or so ago....so...I don't think so:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

atthecat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shouldn't be hard to figure out which tables I've rebuilt in California....because I've only worked on a few tables in the whole state....and none near you;)

Really, you haven't done any tables in LA? I was told by one person and a pool hall that you did. Well, I apologize then. Looks like I had bad info.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Really, you haven't done any tables in LA? I was told by one person and a pool hall that you did. Well, I apologize then. Looks like I had bad info.

I've never worked on a table in LA, the only poolhall in Cali I've worked in is Sal Butera's up in Moorpark, in which I rebuilt the 4 Diamond 9ft ProAms there....I was going to rebuild 2 of the GC1's in Mr. Lucky's in Hathorn...but haven't made it there yet:eek:
 

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is just a rhetorical question: have you ever heard, even once, of a diamond table owner lamenting that their table does not play as well as a gold crown and that they would be willing to pay to have their table play like one? I don't think so. Why do you think that is???

Well yes, as a matter of fact I have.

Skipping right to the important parts - there is more to the 'playing good'
evaluation of a table than how tight the pockets are. Making the
pockets more difficult, does not in any way make the table play better.
It also does not make the player play better, as has been explained already.

I am stunned by all the players who should know better that go brain dead
when evaluating Diamonds. Do you not notice ANYTHING other than
the pockets?

FWIW - GCs are FAR from perfect themselves. They don't compare
favorably with the Anniversary/Centennial they replaced. Even the cheaper
models of that era played better.

Don't even get me started on Arcades, Klings, etc.

Dale
 

atthecat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've never worked on a table in LA, the only poolhall in Cali I've worked in is Sal Butera's up in Moorpark, in which I rebuilt the 4 Diamond 9ft ProAms there....I was going to rebuild 2 of the GC1's in Mr. Lucky's in Hathorn...but haven't made it there yet:eek:

Ok, then I have played on your tables at Butera's. Mr. Lucky's told me you did the work, but maybe I was speaking to the wrong person who was guessing.
Anyway, those tables played really nice. No doubt you are top shelf. I don't think you should put down another mechanics work because they do things differently than you do. To me what matters is how they play. Ernesto's tables play great.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I like this guy:grin:...besides that...how many world champion snooker players are there that have also won the world 9ball, 8ball, 14-1, 10ball world championships?

Thanks brother :wink::smile:

Not a one of them! The only cross over champion that I know of is Harold Worst....and he didn't even shoot at pockets in the beginning as he was a world champion 3cushion player.

It really can affect the game when you make the equipment TOO HARD. Then 9 ball becomes like one pocket...bunting balls and such.

If you cant move the rock freely without the risk of overhitting the pocket on a good shot then the dam pocket is too tight.


Like for example I put 4 1/4" pockets on my brunswick classic at home. I didn't want to go that tight, I was going to set it at 4.5" BUT the pocket shelves were short. So i tightened it up a quarter of an inch to get the difficulty level I wanted. And my pockets play great, they accept good shots and reject bad ones, and still get the rattle rattle sit on the shelf ever so often, if I had made it 4.5 the balls would have never sat on the shelf just got sucked up by the pocket.

If you can't pratice in a professional way by moving the rock and such then your never going to play in a professional manner, you may be a sharp shooter but your position play would be horrid which would make you a weak player.

I'd rather bet on a not as accurate shooter that get position on the balls than a player that seems to make everything from 8 foot away.

Its much easier to teach someone to improve their potting skills than it is to play patterns or better yet to break BAD SHOT CHOICE/PATTERN SELECTION.

Saying pratice on a snooker table is better overall is like telling a newbie to learn one pocket b/c he'll play better overall faster....NO he will just be a lost mess, b/c he can't even wrap his feeble brain around 8 or 9 ball much less one hole.

If a player played 9 ball like he played one pocket he would not be a very good 9 ball player, if the player played 8 ball like 9 ball he would not be a good 8 ball player. When you change a game by introducing new and tougher variables the game is no longer the same game, so what your praticing is NOTHING.

I use a snooker table for snooker unless I'm working drills for potting accuracy and thats mostly just long straight in shots that I practice, the only real oddball is that I'll pratice and hone in on the spot shot there.

The only thing that snooker is going to work pool wise besides potting accuracy is touch, it can help you develop a lighter feel for the roll of the balls which could increase your safety plays in pool by reducing overruns....but could have the opposite effect and make you come up short too. Now you see why pool is praticed on a pool table. Since Alignment and potting skill is common to both they can both be addressed and worked on differing tables with basically no ill effects.

-Grey Ghost-
 
Last edited:

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
To be honest I am really excited to see how the Gold Crowns here in AZ play after they are redone at Skip and Jans. I have not played on a Gold Crown that was set up to your specs Glen but I will say I have great expectations. As soon as the Diamonds and Gold Crowns are done there I plan on giving my review as I have played on many of the tables there and they were rough. I have played on some good Gold Crowns but only one that actually had the pockets tightened via rails and not shims too.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1) Why would i want to change a Gold Crown when tons and tons of major championships were played on it for 30+ years and its still considered either the best or 2nd best table out there?

2) What would be done to a Gold Crown IV if it were diamondized?

3) What are the costs? how long does it take? can it be done at my home?

4) Does diamondizing a Gold Crown IV actually make it play better? or just play different?

Mike


Thought we might get back on track and answer the questions in the original post instead of debating issues back and forth. so far i have yet to get much of a response to my original questions.

Mike

p.s. just my luck, five minutes after i posted my original post last night a Crown fell off. no, not a Gold Crown, but rather a dental crown. thought those things were supposed to stay on forever?
 

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
Well yes, as a matter of fact I have.

Skipping right to the important parts - there is more to the 'playing good'
evaluation of a table than how tight the pockets are. Making the
pockets more difficult, does not in any way make the table play better.
It also does not make the player play better, as has been explained already.

I am stunned by all the players who should know better that go brain dead
when evaluating Diamonds. Do you not notice ANYTHING other than
the pockets?

FWIW - GCs are FAR from perfect themselves. They don't compare
favorably with the Anniversary/Centennial they replaced. Even the cheaper
models of that era played better.

Don't even get me started on Arcades, Klings, etc.

Dale

I guess there are probably one or two out there in the world that would trade out the Diamond. I guess that I've just never met one and it sure as hell won't be me. It is important to remember that there can not be a right answer here, as it is a matter of taste. I like coffee as opposed to tea, but what does that matter? My loyalty is to the game and nothing more. Pool on any table with six pockets has my attention. Having said that, for my money, Diamond is the way to go - and that opinion is worth what you paid for it.

I would be interested in seeing what the results of a Diamond vs. Brunswick poll here on AZB would yield. Not a poll about asthetics, but one designed to track playing preferences. Something like this: If you could play on only one table for the rest of your life, what would it be?
 

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I guess there are probably one or two out there in the world that would trade out the Diamond. I guess that I've just never met one and it sure as hell won't be me. It is important to remember that there can not be a right answer here, as it is a matter of taste. I like coffee as opposed to tea, but what does that matter? My loyalty is to the game and nothing more. Pool on any table with six pockets has my attention. Having said that, for my money, Diamond is the way to go - and that opinion is worth what you paid for it.

I would be interested in seeing what the results of a Diamond vs. Brunswick poll here on AZB would yield. Not a poll about asthetics, but one designed to track playing preferences. Something like this: If you could play on only one table for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Damnit, I am a poolman not a pollman, make the poll! :grin:
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DCP- Please buy a Diamond if you want a Diamond.

It is going to cost you more in time and money to update your GC4 and it still won't be a Diamond.

Take your $1k and ahve the pockets cut to proper angles and the rubber replaced/ rails refaced.
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
After owning and playing on a Diamond pro for several years I have gotten very used to it. On occasion I will hunt down Gold Crowns to play on and IMHO there is a new sheriff in town. I love Gold Crowns and have played on hundreds of them and a handful were set up by great mechanics. But once you have gotten used to the way these Diamonds play it is hard to go back. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that there are not great playing GC'S out there but I personal cant believe how many there are that play way different then the one that sits right next to them.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I must correct myself....

I said that Worst was the only cross over.....a member thumped my head and reminded me about Allison Fischer

This is true, but oddly enough no men......I'm sure this is a money issue but when the top snooker players play the top pool players in pool they usually get thumped and vice versa.

Diff equip, diff skill set.
 

Chi2dxa

Lost over C&D Triangle
Silver Member
You guys make this forum worth coming to.

Real King Cobra and Grey Ghost, you guy just made my day. There is no need for me to comment because you guys have said everything that I would have said. I have played on Diamond Tables setup by Glen and Mark in Conyers, Georgia and every trip there make me feel like Fast Eddie Felson like I just can't miss. Ghost you are right....playing on hard difficult tables destroys your confidence and make you play timid and that's all it does. Just my two cents.
 
Top