There will be blood

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DR Pool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2014 BCAPL Southwest Regional

I will set the record straight on one thing. DR Pool Promotions, Inc. will be directing the 2014 BCAPL Southwest Regional next year.It will be Labor Day weekend as it always is. I will pick a team to assist me. We will also have a uniformed referee in the player's area. I have been at the Southwest Regional every year. Why would I fly all the way from WI to be there? Simple, it is my venue and I sign the contract. Many of the recent changes have come from my camp, and have been discussed with the BCAPL. There will hopefully be more improvements next year.

Have at it with the rest. I have more important things to attend to.

Dean Roeseler
DR Pool
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not quite yet.............................What about the chronic cheating by a League Operator and his League Team......OMG................Come on.......................You can't bury the corpse this time.

Now there are two identical incidents of cheating, in different years, by the same person................yes, he's a chronic cheat and needs to be expelled from all league play and suspended as the League Operator. Why as the operator? Because of his willful, intentional failure to operate the league with the spirit of fair competition, total disregard for the By-Laws and his specified duties as League Operator and lastly, the complete loss of all trust in his integrity because of a pattern of chronic cheating.

Not airing all of this public more than smells like a cover-up since the there's a proven history of cheating, at both the team and League Operator levels, that's not being acknowledged. This is not the first time he's done this and basically he's stealing money from other teams in the league. How can anyone trust him or the Franchisor after this unless there's hell to pay. To not come down absolutely hard on this becomes a self-servicing decision, i.e,. don't do anything to impede current & future revenue. It sounds like some closed door, secret session rendered this decision which is an insult to everyone intelligence or sense of fair play. This is a monetarily motivated decision which is pretty obvious.
 
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ingins

ingins

Shoot from the Hip
Silver Member
What was the other incident?

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ingins

ingins

Shoot from the Hip
Silver Member
The other incident was what happened to roger longs team

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azhousepro

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
The other incident could be any number of things.

It could be the time a couple seasons ago when Jerry was either tied or one game back in the race for most wins during the league season. His team had to play a play-off match because they were tied with another team at the end of the season. His games in the playoff match were added to his total number of wins and he took 1st in games won.

Or it could be the reported instance where he was in Vegas and one of his team members had to go home early. Jerry reportedly sent John Smith (one of the top 3 bar box players in Az) in to say he was the player that had to go home early.


And to shed a little more light on the situation that Tres is describing here, the player who actually played the weeks of league (John W.) is a 6 rated player in Az's ratings system. The player who played for Jerry's team? That would be John P., who is a 9 rated player and just won a big bar box event out here 2-3 months ago.

Other players who played in the league in question spoke up while watching Jerry's team in Vegas and asked who John P. was, as they claimed they had never seen him play on league night.

Dr. Pool's comment in this thread is about the SW Regional Championship that took place out here a little over a week ago. Before the event was over, players were being told that the event was going to be ran next year by Dr Pool, Jerry and a friend of Jerry's. I spoke to Mark G. and Dean about this claim and Mark confirmed that he was handing the event off to Dr. Pool to run in the future. Dean made sure to make it clear to me that it was him that was running it, and not Jerry or his friend. Yet, Jerry was posting on Facebook later that night how there were a lot of changes that "we" are working on for next year. So if Dean's team is not set for next year yet, he should probably inform Jerry.

On a personal note, I played a season together with Jerry on a team a few years back and none of this stuff was going on back then. In the past couple of years though, Jerry seems to have developed a reputation as someone who will bend the rules if it is for his own advantage. As he has taken on more of a role in the local pool scene (league operator, tournament director, president of the ratings committee), his reputation for shenanigans has grown.

A large number of Az players have approached me at recent tourneys here in town and said they are tired of the games that are being played, but they are afraid to come forward on their own. Kudos to Tres for putting himself out there and making his feelings known.

Mike
 
B

Bill S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AzHousePro said:
The other incident could be any number of things.

It could be the time a couple seasons ago when Jerry was either tied or one game back in the race for most wins during the league season. His team had to play a play-off match because they were tied with another team at the end of the season. His games in the playoff match were added to his total number of wins and he took 1st in games won.

Or it could be the reported instance where he was in Vegas and one of his team members had to go home early. Jerry reportedly sent John Smith (one of the top 3 bar box players in Az) in to say he was the player that had to go home early.


And to shed a little more light on the situation that Tres is describing here, the player who actually played the weeks of league (John W.) is a 6 rated player in Az's ratings system. The player who played for Jerry's team? That would be John P., who is a 9 rated player and just won a big bar box event out here 2-3 months ago.

Other players who played in the league in question spoke up while watching Jerry's team in Vegas and asked who John P. was, as they claimed they had never seen him play on league night.

Dr. Pool's comment in this thread is about the SW Regional Championship that took place out here a little over a week ago. Before the event was over, players were being told that the event was going to be ran next year by Dr Pool, Jerry and a friend of Jerry's. I spoke to Mark G. and Dean about this claim and Mark confirmed that he was handing the event off to Dr. Pool to run in the future. Dean made sure to make it clear to me that it was him that was running it, and not Jerry or his friend. Yet, Jerry was posting on Facebook later that night how there were a lot of changes that "we" are working on for next year. So if Dean's team is not set for next year yet, he should probably inform Jerry.

On a personal note, I played a season together with Jerry on a team a few years back and none of this stuff was going on back then. In the past couple of years though, Jerry seems to have developed a reputation as someone who will bend the rules if it is for his own advantage. As he has taken on more of a role in the local pool scene (league operator, tournament director, president of the ratings committee), his reputation for shenanigans has grown.

A large number of Az players have approached me at recent tourneys here in town and said they are tired of the games that are being played, but they are afraid to come forward on their own. Kudos to Tres for putting himself out there and making his feelings known.

Mike
Click to expand...

The punishments have been decided and the letters have gone out.

League Operators will be notified via email today.

Go ahead and torch me if you like. I don't really care.

This is my last post on this subject.

Bill Stock
 
upindaklub

upindaklub

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bill S said:
The punishments have been decided and the letters have gone out.

League Operators will be notified via email today.

Go ahead and torch me if you like. I don't really care.

This is my last post on this subject.

Bill Stock
Click to expand...

Who polices the police?
 
Eric.

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
Bill S said:
The punishments have been decided and the letters have gone out.

League Operators will be notified via email today.

Go ahead and torch me if you like. I don't really care.

This is my last post on this subject.

Bill Stock
Click to expand...

Bill,

I have no dog in this fight, but since it is here for public comment...

I dont feel anyone is "torching" you or the BCAPL. If anything, it's customer feedback about an on going problem. While I can understand this can be a powderkeg situation, with a lot of emotional reactions on both sides, in the end, I think it was a good thing that this issue was brought to light and dealt with.

On that note, I sounds like you did the right thing.


Eric
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow!

This is hitting pretty close to home. I'm glad I play a couple hours south of this whole mess.

I've known Tres for over 10 years now, He has my complete respect as a person who will play strictly by the rules. His reputation as a player/person has never been in question. I doubt he would come forward if things were handled better. I wasn't aware of any of this during the BCAPL at the Rio.

I hope this does not affect any players in that league who were not on that team?

As the league operator, I would think there should be a standard to be accountable for? Maybe it's time to change league operators? Hand the reigns over to somebody else?

As mentioned earlier, Jerry has his hands on almost everything that happens in the pool world of the state of Arizona. So....it will be an interesting month or so in Arizona.
 
Donny Lutz

Donny Lutz

Ferrule Cat
Silver Member
Not that unusual...

thebark said:
I didn't want to have to start this thread. I wanted the governing body to act in judicious way, or at least in a way that would save them the embarrassment of abuse on a public forum, but their failure to act leads me to post here.

Here are the details. At the recent BCAPL 8Ball Championships held at the Rio many of my friends told me of a team that was playing with an unqualified player. Not an amazing story, it's been done before, but this time it was a League Operator's team (Jerry Stuckart Wednesday Inhouse at Stingers Glendale Az). Jerry was using a player that had never played once, according to all I talked to, and was therefore ineligible for team completion. The Stuckart team had even beaten another of his inhouse teams. Needless to say people were hot. I did not play team so I felt I would be the one to let BCAPL know what was going on.

I told Bill Stock the situation.Stuckart had an unqualified player on his team by the name of John. Everyone from the inhouse league said he had never played one week. There was another player named John who had subbed enough weeks to qualify but this was absolutely a different person. I therefore suggested that the league records had been forged to show that Stuckart's John had enough weeks. I told Bill that it was a serious violation especially coming from a league operator and I hoped the BCAPL would look into it. Bill told me it would take awhile to look into because they had to look into the computer records.

I patiently waited for the ruling knowing I would see Stock and Griffin at the Southwest Regional in Phoenix over Labor Day. To me this was a very serious offense for a League Operator. Through intermediaries it was expressed To the BCAPL Senior Staff how outraged the BCA players and other league operators of Metro Phoenix were. A just ruling was needed if they didn't want this brought out for public discussion. A minimum of one year suspension of league operations (even if he was still behind the scenes) seemed fair.

Then over Labor Day there was Jerry playing in the advanced/masters singles. His punishment I heard was that he couldn't personally play teams for 1 year and was on probation for anywhere from 1 to 3 years. This for a person in a position of trust and integrity just a slap on the wrist. The BCAPL really failed all their players and league operators of Arizona. Could it be that he got off so easily because he is going to take over the Southwest Regional with Dr. Pool next year? ettu brute TresKane
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I've both heard of and seen instances where league directors arbitrarily change averages and play-off schedules to favor particular teams.

I have resisted naming names and the league system for fear of recrimination.
 
T

thebark

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bill, it wasn't my intention to torch either you or the BCAPL. I am a fervent backer of the great things you guys have done for pool players. My decision to post here was made after consultation with some very level headed people in our area. I awaited patiently and silently for six weeks for a decision. But when the Southwest regional came and went I still hadn't heard a thing. I brought it to your attention and felt you could have at least told me personally that you were still working on. Others have told me that they had asked for updates but nothing was forthcoming.

It was only then I decided to go to a public forum. Time has a way of muting the indignation we originally feel. I wanted to express my feelings before I just didn't care enough to see the matter through to a just conclusion. I am sure we are both guilty of mistakes and am deeply sorry for the strain in our friendship. When you play poker you don't always know the other guys hand. Its not personal Sonny, its only business. Tres Kane
 
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dundeewizard

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like Bill and Jerry have something of a golden handshake going on. That sucks but has made my decsion easy. Joining the APA session for Thursday nights :)
 
Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I have to say if Tres says something I trust and believe the guy 100%. He is one of the most upstanding people I have met in the Arizona pool community and a great supporter of pool.
 
M

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
To Dundee Wizard:

I will absolutely guarantee that there is no 'golden handshake' between any of our staff and any league operator. I should take that as a swipe towards my staff - but I think I will write it off as a stupid remark.

If that is the basis of your decision - good luck. Hope you use better rationale in getting through life.

I think everyone is over reacting a little bit on the time frames. It took us a full 3-4 weeks to decompress from the Rio event - and this toipic wasn't really discussed much because we knew we would be in Arizone for the SW Regional. So, yes it took 6weeks but could not be done any faster! We were in Arizona determining the facts. We got back to the office on Tuesday Sept 3rd. We waited for Ric Jones of Bad Boys to get to the office on Wednesday and we all talked it out. Made preliminary decision on Thursday and reviewed them on Friday.

Bill was writing them up on Monday - when Tres posted on AZ Billiards. (I have no problem with Tres or anyone else posting their thoughts). We have completed the decisions and have sent out the mailings to affected parties. This is not the place to discuss our solution

And anyone that 'thinks' we are in cahoots with Jerry or anyone else can kiss my A**! We have over 500 League Operators and there will be glitches. They take time to sort out. To call us corrupt is a whole 'nother' story! (And WAY out of line)

At least we take the time to try to do it right. And we dont dodge the questions. As always, you wanna talk - call me at 702-719-7665.

BTW - I have no knowledge of the 'other' things people are discussing about Jerry. Sounds to me like Arizona has some issues. We can not address something that is completely outside our scope of responsibility. We have NO input who is on their 'ratings committee'. Some comments were made about an 'on going' problem. This is a one time problem to us since we had no knowledge about any other situations. Talk is cheap - we need facts and things must be presented within a reasonable length of time. You guys that think you have some facts - get them to us; don't hide behind a keyboard.

Remember - it you aren't part of the solution, than you might be part of the problem.

Mark Griffin


dundeewizard said:
Sounds like Bill and Jerry have something of a golden handshake going on. That sucks but has made my decsion easy. Joining the APA session for Thursday nights :)
Click to expand...
 
Eric.

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
Mark Griffin said:
Some comments were made about an 'on going' problem. This is a one time problem to us since we had no knowledge about any other situations. Talk is cheap - we need facts and things must be presented within a reasonable length of time. You guys that think you have some facts - get them to us; don't hide behind a keyboard.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Mark,

I think Mike Howerton/AZhousepro gave some specific examples. I'm sure you guys have his contact info and vice versa.

FWIW, I feel the BCAPL is doing the right thing. Every league is gonna have issues. It's the leagues that fully address them, that are to be commended.


Eric
 
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