Have you ever known a player with almost zero natural talent to get good?
- Thread starter justinb386
- Start date
LMAO. (About sawing off your arm, I'd be there with you!)
Sounds like they need a new instructor or a good book to boost them along.
LMAO. (About sawing off your arm, I'd be there with you!)
Sounds like they need a new instructor or a good book to boost them along.
Maybe a custom cue
what's b level
SVB. I'm pretty sure if I had started at age 2, spent 2 hrs a day for 20 yrs building my stroke, devoted my entire life to it after age 2, I would kick his ass .
Alot of champions are only champions, because of an extraordinary work ethic, not because they possess super natural talent.
.Alot of champions are only champions, because of an extraordinary work ethic, not because they possess super natural talent.
I disagree. I think the monk's ceiling is higher especially if he continues to apply himself. I think it's unfair to compare someone who is very used to what they do and it requires no conscious effort on their part, versus someone who is constantly incorporating new things into their game, or mentally trying to keep things in check before they become fully ingrained..
The monk could be working on any number of things or trying to hold together a bunch of different moving parts.
I think being able to relax, free-wheel and get into a rhythm is a pretty powerful luxury that your friend has, and the monk probably might not allow himself to have. It doesn't mean he's worse, his game is probably just in flux.
No, I was saying that if my left hand can play at B speed, anybody else's dominant hand should be at least equal if not better, so coordination is not a problem. My left handed hand writing looks like a 2 year old on crack, but I can still manage to make balls on half a table with it, so coordination is not a big factor at least to that point.
I don't know if this qualifies as 'good' but 4 or so months ago I could scarcely run two balls unless I just had some super easy shots. Now I'm playing and holding my own against people who end up in Vegas with their league every year and winning my local bar tournament pretty often. I'm getting an 'ok' feel for English, etc.
I'm still terrible on a 9ft table and have 'hit or miss' nights, though. My goal for the next year or so is to perfect the use of English and acclimate myself with regulation tables to really make an impact on my game. Also I would like to get a feel for the speed of the different cloths, etc. so I can predict more accurately the ball path and where my shots will be left instead of using English with a general idea of where the cue 'should' end up.
But yea, I'm still below probably what you were asking. However, someone who sucks absolutely can make leaps and bounds towards improving if they dedicate their time and energy to something they love.
This. Time is what holds up back.
I heard 2 things that kinda stuck with me about practice time and improvement.
1. An hour a day will not help you improve your game. I believe Ralph Eckert told a student that, or something very similar.
2. Every other day just to maintain. You need to shoot every other day just to stay at your current level. I think it was Jay who said this.
Most corpses have more talent than me, but with hard work, I managed to get to a decent level.
Last edited:
definitely agree with this
I really think the difference is this...
1) Super talented wunderkind - practices 1 hour a day for 6 months and takes 3 lessons on fundamentals and cue ball position and can run a rack
2) Shlub no-talent uncoordinated bum (me) - practices for 12 hours a day for 12 months and takes 26 lessons on fundamentals and cue ball position and can run a rack
Talent makes it a shorter path imho, but anyone can get there with enough hard work. Top pro players I'm sure had the talent, drive, and ALSO put in ridiculous amounts of hard work to get there.
1) Super talented wunderkind - practices 1 hour a day for 6 months and takes 3 lessons on fundamentals and cue ball position and can run a rack
2) Shlub no-talent uncoordinated bum (me) - practices for 12 hours a day for 12 months and takes 26 lessons on fundamentals and cue ball position and can run a rack
Talent makes it a shorter path imho, but anyone can get there with enough hard work. Top pro players I'm sure had the talent, drive, and ALSO put in ridiculous amounts of hard work to get there.
Talent
Two notable quotes come to mind:
1. Bud Collins, tennis commentator extraordinaire once said, "At one point in his life even John McEnroe stunk at tennis." I personally don't believe in talent per se in any somewhat unnatural physical endeavor which brings me to my second quote:
2. John M. (an old friend): Practice does not make perfect. CORRECT practice and competition does.
Two notable quotes come to mind:
1. Bud Collins, tennis commentator extraordinaire once said, "At one point in his life even John McEnroe stunk at tennis." I personally don't believe in talent per se in any somewhat unnatural physical endeavor which brings me to my second quote:
2. John M. (an old friend): Practice does not make perfect. CORRECT practice and competition does.
Exactly!!!
I think B players stay B players largely because they do not change the level of competition they play against. I don't think you can ever really become an A player without playing other A players and learning from those matches. Practice is important, drills help, but there is nothing like the increases you get from being under the extreme pressure of making a shot when you know if you miss you lose. Also, when playing an A player if you play along mentally you can learn patterns and shots that you would never see in a drill or practice.
I think almost anyone could become a high B low A level player.
I was a C player and then started playing a Top 20 pro every single day for $2 a game. I would lose $20 every day. After a few months, the pro told me that we needed to play for $5 a game and I realized it was because I had started to compete a little with him. Shortly after that I won the B tournament several times, got banned, won the A tournament a few times and could have become much better, but life situations changed and I stopped playing for 20 years.
Since I have returned, I am now a decent B player that still has an occasional night of strong play, but I don't practice and especially don't play really good players often so my game is not coming back so fast. If I immersed myself in it and played good players a lot I think I would get it back.
But to me, playing better players is critical to really becoming good. Also true of tennis, ping pong, even golf.
LOL. "Matter of perception"...Listen, talent exists, much like intelligence or other traits, but of course it's more a combination of traits. Naturally there are degrees of talent, it's not an either/or proposition, so in that regard you are right, it's rather arbitrary where you draw the line between haves and have nots. Some people are gifted with better eyesight and hand to eye coordination than others. The most talented guy I ever saw went from complete, raw beginner to solid A player in a year! That is talent! I didn't actually witness all of that first hand, but I saw the results of it later. You can even say I'm being strict by saying it was one year, he beat everybody in the pool hall in about 6-7 months, people that had been playing for years and were very good. I don't think I ever even heard of such progression, really. It's astounding!
He was making balls right from the get-go. Sadly his talent was wasted, he could have been a word beater but he threw it all away. He's a shadow of himself today, he never practises, but occationally shows up at tournaments, beating almost everybody. Drugs of course...Such an utter waste, with even a trace of dicipline he could have been a World Champion, IMO. While he's been doing his thing I've been practising intently improving very slowly, but there is no doubt in my mind that if he put a weeks worth of practise in, he'd beat my brains out.
Talent is real. Watch this clip of Judd Trump as a young boy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHFspfl0zSU
Last edited:
How are we defining "natural talent" here? Awesome hand-eye coordination?
I remember a friend of mine in middle school. We were playing softball during PE. Most of us struggled to just hit the ball. He kept fouling the ball off until he got a pitch he liked (or the coach told him to stop fooling around).
I remember a friend of mine in middle school. We were playing softball during PE. Most of us struggled to just hit the ball. He kept fouling the ball off until he got a pitch he liked (or the coach told him to stop fooling around).