Matlock is tired of all of the lies..

clint3612 said:

How is roosterman giving David a bad rep? He has yet to curse, swear, or demean any players or the posters on this forum. Roosterman is a life long friend, opponent, and fan. He talks to David weekly sometimes and the last few days has been delivering messages on David's behalf. Again, he is not trying to call people out necessarily, but set the record straight. I'll tell you how he represents David, he only helped stake him in the big bar table ring game on TAR. How well do you guys know your player? He knows what he's talking about!

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Roosterman called Keith a "liar." That is a strong word where I come from, and I use it sparingly. When I do use it, I am 100-percent positive the person is spewing an untruth.

Keith was there, playing Matlock. Not Roosterman. And as such, Keith posted on this thread, not Matlock.

If Matlock wants to set the record straight, then, by God, let him come on this forum and post for himself, as opposed to speaking through a "Roosterman."

JAM

clint3612 said:

As always, an instructor tries to explain how to determine a great player. Playing long ahead sets is really the way to determine who is the better player. Yes, you can ascertain alot from tournament winnings, but if i was to compare Charlie Williams to David Matlock in recent times (just for pure example), Charlie has had better tournament finishes. However, if you were to lock them in a room for 3 days, Charlie would be broke and mentally destroyed. To many variables to contain with in a short period of time. There is no way that a tournament always determines the best player!

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And on this subject, I agree with you!

JAM

clint3612 said:

With all due respect. If you beat david in OKC in under an hour, i guarantee you would got another 1 or 2 sessions fired right back at you. During this time, if you could beat David,you could bust the whole state of Oklahoma. I assure you; the okies thought David Matlock was the greatest thing next to sliced bread. He had some of the biggest pockets at that time. Several oil men who thought they were being naughty for staking pool players and got their rocks off, doing it. And if you did indeed beat him like you said you did, I promise they would be flipping the coin for the next set. Now Keith i do remember when you beat James Walden handily for about 10,000, i was in OKC when you did it, didn't see it but i heard about it. I think you could have the games and the guys confused. Because David says it never happened this way.. Again, no disrespect to you Keith. I used to watch you all of the time down at the Cue-Topia along with Mark Tadd and others. Hell, you even knocked me out of game with a Big drug dealer ( i still can't remember his name) I talked to you several times, and you knew me, so, again, i don't want you to feel disrespected about my comments.

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Keith will respond directly to you and your comments later today.

JAM

Roadkill said:

No disrespect intended, but I think there would be huge interest in a matchup where Scott Lee plays Alex Pagulayan getting the 5 out in a race to 50 for $10,000.

I think this would be a great match and great for pool. It could be advertised as the "Teacher vs. Student: The Match of the Century". This could open up an entire new PPV revenue stream for TAR (matches where one player is getting weight). I would pay $$$ to see Scott and Alex battle it out.

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Champion pool players don't always make good teachers. This is not a stereotypical statement, but teaching skills are quite different than pool playing skills. Two different animals.

By the same token, good teachers aren't always GREAT players. Just because they know how to explain things correctly and have good communication skills doesn't mean they can execute the shots consistently. They can talk the talk, but unfortunately, the teachers may not be able to walk the walk.

As one example, Keith always refers to his "feels" for some shots. Try explaining what a "feel" is. That's why we need teachers. :grin:

JAM

Scott Lee said:

Charlie Williams? Heck...let's lock Matlock in a room with Efren for 3 days, and see who comes out ahead! Efren is a feared money player, as well as an excellent tournament player. If tournaments don't determine who is the better player, then why do the top players still play in them? Why don't they just gamble? Probably because someone will actually come out a winner in the tournament, and take home some cash. The gamblers will break even over time (or, as we all know, more likely go broke...because they won some $$$ playing pool, and then lost it at the track! ).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

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You do seem to stereotype pool players in the same light, Scott. That doesn't quite seem fair.

JAM

roosterman said:

The reason David's pissed about a lot rumors of people beating him there's talk of putting a bar table player in the hall of fame.

And he just does'nt want any false rumors floating around about Siegal beating him or Parica.

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If your reasoning for being rude on this thread is to help David Matlock get into the Hall of Fame, then tell David I will vote for him to be inducted into it. Somehow, though, knowing David Matlock, seeing how he interacts with others, I think he would not like this thread one bit. He would NEVER speak in the manner that Roosterman has. He's just not that kind of guy.

The David Matlock I know is kind, very unassuming, and humble. :smile:

In fact, I am going to make it a point to have Keith call David Matlock on the phone and discuss this thread. I can't wait to hear what David has to say.

JAM

jay helfert said:

Love this story. David was a proud man.

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Agreed again Jay and I think that is or should be the point of this. Both David and Kieth are proud guys and I doubt seriuosly if either has a negative thing to say about the other.

Both were hellacious players in their own right and have so much to be proud of. I have seen both play and at times that neither could have played more perfectly. At other times, they both looked just like another good pool player. In the long haul though, David, Kieth, and Buddy would make most look just like another pool player. They all 3 had something very special and I believe they realized it and hung their hats on it.

Imo, there will never be bar players like these again as things have just changed too much. John Shuput, Erman Bullard, Dan Louie, Joe Salazar, and others have come so close and on certain days put on their own clinics, but in the long run the other 3 would have come out on top.

I don't believe kieth to be a liar nor do I believe David to be one. They were both great in those circumstances and cling to that proudly and that is good enough for me.

To both, all I have to say, is, Thanks for the memories.

mbvl said:

It makes a nice story, but I think it was just woofin'. When I was reading the story for the first time, I expected to hear that when Ambrose heard that "David" was from Oklahoma, the lightbulb would have gone on. How could anyone (especially from Texas) not have heard of "Okie Dave"?

Mark

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David was very young and Ritchie was on the road and from New York. Ritchie at this poin t was considered by many the best 9 ball player in the world at the time. I expect the had heard of him, but I doubt Ritchie thought anyone could beat him at the time.

He may have heard David was there as David hung around Amarillo a bit with his buddy Gary Chapman and went there just to find David.

In those days David was often staked by an oil man from Ok. named Duggan. Bill would bet it up and had more money than Bank of America. If you could beat David, no telling what one could have won. It could have looked like a telephone nimber though.

Godd, pool playing was so much more fun then.

clint3612 said:

Huckster, I have alot of respect for your dealings in the pool world, however, I've never heard of Parica beating David except through your story. From what i understand, David beat Parica. Not to mention, I would have very hard time seeing anybody beating David 15 ahead at that time. I don't believe Parica even breaks good enough to slay him by 15 games.

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I seen it with my own eyes. It was in Kansas the time frame may be slightly off but it happened. Matlock was the only even game Jose got in months. I am by no means saying Dave is not a small track monster he does everything great. He shoots three ball combos better then anyone ever. He very well may be the best ever, but Jose just wears people down. Many people think that the Filipino champions can not play on the bar boxes, but believe it or not I think Jose, Antonio, and a few others play on the barbox better then the big track. Playing 9ball on the barbox Jose breaks well enough he plays pinpoint shape and never misses. The year he won the bar box championship the window was open and my horse wouldn't play him.

roosterman said:

I just talked to David he said he only played Parica one time and that was a 10 ahead set in Nashville,and he beat Parica.He wishes ya'll would stop making up stories about him.

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I don't have a dog in the fight so I won't argue. I seen what I seen, He is a great guy but his memory may be failing him. Earlier it was stated he never played Keith for serious cash just a dime set and they were three sheets in the wind, but Keith remembers losing 20 dimes, and then later getting around 15 dimes back. I have no need to lie I no longer depend on pool for a source of income, and I don't even play. All I have in life is my word and as far as I can recollect the game was 15 ahead on 3 1/2' by 7'. I hope Dave is well and he is a champion but I have my memory and he has his. Hell it was over 10 years ago and overtime memories fade.

bigskyjake said:

I don't hate Matlock at all, however you're coming off like a real ass

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I would give you some rep if I could. It takes quite a bit to rub me the wrong way, but to be called a liar is doing it. I think dave plays great but to say I am lieing, McCready is lieing, and JAM is lieing is getting me a bit hot. The one time I met Dave Matlock he seemed like a nice guy, not the type of guy who would pick and agitate like the way the rooster is.

Has David or Keith won a bar table championship? Just curious. Ive tried to find the info but was unable. If not, does anybody else find that more than just a little interesting? I did see that Matlock has played in them and not won. To claim to be the best ever you have to pass more than just the "I" test. I saw Matlock play and he was the best, I saw Keith play and he was the best. It would be more than just a little contradictory to me if the actual recorded results from tournaments say they were not the best in that tourney.
Say what you will regarding tournament play vs cash play. I play a lot of poker and pool, in tournaments you get one shot to show your best. You don't have the luxury of just pulling out wads of money to play again. So what, you get to keep gambling with someone until you finally win or scare them with a lot of money? That to me isn't putting yourself under pressure. NOT being able play endlessly because of money is. In a tournament it doesn't matter how many rich oil backers you know. They can't help you. You need to do it, you get one chance to beat your opponent, each match, and thats it.
Having one chance to beat someone and failing to me trumps just playing and playing until someone gives up. And again recorded results have to be able to speak louder than stories. ESPECIALLY, when they don't match up. If your the best, your the best in a tournament or a cash game, period.

JAM said:

If your reasoning for being rude on this thread is to help David Matlock get into the Hall of Fame, then tell David I will vote for him to be inducted into it. Somehow, though, knowing David Matlock, seeing how he interacts with others, I think he would not like this thread one bit. He would NEVER speak in the manner that Roosterman has. He's just not that kind of guy.

The David Matlock I know is kind, very unassuming, and humble. :smile:

In fact, I am going to make it a point to have Keith call David Matlock on the phone and discuss this thread. I can't wait to hear what David has to say.

JAM

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I agree Jam, I have know David on a casual level, seeing him at pool tournaments for several years and I am positive he would not approve with this thread and the representation he is receiving from Roosterman. I am sure Roosterman has David's best interest at heart, but in the end does it really matter if David and Keith play twice, three times or four times. They obviously were two of the best ever in the game of pool.

Take Care
-don

RunoutalloverU said:

Has David or Keith won a bar table championship? Just curious. Ive tried to find the info but was unable. If not, does anybody else find that more than just a little interesting? I did see that Matlock has played in them and not won.

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When David and Keith were in their prime there were very little big documented pool tournaments in that period and probably zero bar table tournaments. And in this same era the money in gambling was much greater than the prize for winning tournaments and most gambling type players were sleeping while their victims were playing the tournament:grin: :grin:

-don

RunoutalloverU said:

Has David or Keith won a bar table championship? ...(gambling)...to me isn't putting yourself under pressure. NOT being able play endlessly because of money is...

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SHeeeat!

These guys would go into tourneys and there wasn't a soul there that they could play even...they could all get weight for the cheese.

Belt just hold up your pants!

..............

Neil said:

I'm surprised that you think that way! According to your theory, the best in the tournament always wins! We all know that is not true. I've beaten Jason Kirkwood in a tournament, does that make me better than him??? I don't think so.

Tournaments are short races. Competent players are capable of beating champions in a tournament. I'm proof of that. But would I gamble with those chamions?? NO WAY! Why not? Because they are WAY better than I am.

I get my break working, and get a couple of good rolls, I can beat a champion in a race to 7 or 9 once in a while. But those rolls aren't going to hold up, and in a race to 40-50, I am going to get slaughtered.

So, just because someone may not hold a lot of titles in tournament play, does NOT mean that they are not the best player.

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I have been fairly active on this forum for three years now and many are constantly trying to figure out who the best is. It is about opinion and those opinions often formed by those who never saw many of the names nominated.

There is no formula and we will never know. The same thing goes on daily in football, baseball, basketball, and other sports.

To me, it just comes down to who I would have bet on in a certain spot.

I'd like to see any bar table player match up against Warren Kiamco in a long set, my money is on Kiamco

Black-Balled said:

SHeeeat!

These guys would go into tourneys and there wasn't a soul there that they could play even...they could all get weight for the cheese.

Belt just hold up your pants!

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Back then, Keith, and David could give almost everyone at least the blackball on the small box and big whitey.

smashmouth said:

I'd like to see any bar table player match up against Warren Kiamco in a long set, my money is on Kiamco

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I like Warren too, but you won't be liking him after Matlock on the 7'er!