A Huge Thank You from CueSports International (CSI)!
- Thread starter CSI - Ozzy
- Start date
The whole thing was poor communication and could have been handled better from the start.
The ends justified the means.
I did speak to Mark last night and am satisfied with his explanation. Could it have been handled better - yes. This is to say handled better by CSI and Big Truck both. Did it work out in the end - yes.
Mark - if you need help next year in setting up the arena, let me know cause there is no excuse for that sir. It was simply terrible in every aspect except that it had two pool tables in it.
I also have my consulting services available to you to review players and their classification within your BCAPL system. There were some grave errors that could be resolved.
Oh and let Ozzy know it is ok to smile every once in awhile. That being said, I don't smile enough myself.
The ends justified the means.
I did speak to Mark last night and am satisfied with his explanation. Could it have been handled better - yes. This is to say handled better by CSI and Big Truck both. Did it work out in the end - yes.
Mark - if you need help next year in setting up the arena, let me know cause there is no excuse for that sir. It was simply terrible in every aspect except that it had two pool tables in it.
I also have my consulting services available to you to review players and their classification within your BCAPL system. There were some grave errors that could be resolved.
Oh and let Ozzy know it is ok to smile every once in awhile. That being said, I don't smile enough myself.
Were those 9 footers rosewood Dymondwood, or the flat black phenolic rail caps?
Pretty sure all 6 were black finish.
I'm with you Royce. I support the people who are actually doing something for our sport, rather than the critics who only point out the flaws. No one is perfect and we learn all the time. I'm sure next year's CSI Nationals will be even better than this year. By the way, I worked on both live streams, for CSI and Big Truck, and didn't get fired! :wink:
CSI - Ozzy
Banned
Why the Silence?
As some of you may have noticed, I no longer engage in opinion or debate on this forum. I only use it to provide information about our events and to answer legitimate questions. The sad reality is that there are a few people here that do nothing but attack and spread negativity. I often joke with Mark Griffin that we could publish the cure for cancer here and get repeatedly attacked.
I don’t respond to these often ridiculous posts for two very simple reasons. First, I have a company to run and important work to do. I have a responsibility to Mark Griffin, our employees, our members, and our sponsors. Responding to every silly accusation or comment would divert me from the real work to be done. Secondly, reacting to these people gives them and their comments some form of legitimacy. As you can see in a few of the comments in this thread, there are some people here that will constantly criticize your every action. There are even some who lodge personal attacks without knowing me or any of the information that goes into my decisions. I really don’t mind because I’m an adult and it comes with the job. I usually just chuckle and get back to work. As an adult and a professional, I refuse to engage on that basis.
There also seems to be some notion that the details of every action, decision, or negotiation in the pool industry should be posted for public consumption. That notion is false and should be rejected by any rational person.
So, in the future, when you see negative comments, accusations, or personal attacks against me or CSI, you will see no reaction. Silence is not an admission of guilt. Again, I have far better things to do with my limited time. With that said, I will always try to answer legitimate questions and respond to serious and civil posts.
A Little Background
Against my better judgment, I will explain what happened in this situation and it will be the last time I ever do so on the AZBilliards forum. Before I do, it may be helpful to understand a little background. Ray Hansen and I have been friends since 2011. He helped me tremendously when I was setting up the live stream for The Action Pool Tour on the east coast. He spend a lot of his valuable time on the phone explaining what I needed and how to make it work. He even mailed me a few computer components that I lacked. He did this and never asked for anything in return.
Oscar and I have been friends since 2013. I could tell immediately that he was a good person raised in a great family. He rarely has anything negative to say and he is doing great things on the west coast. The effort he has put into the Mezz West State Tour surpasses anything I have done with The Action Pool Tour. I think I did a good job but he is doing a great job. I admire what he is doing so when he asked me for help in setting up the Mezz West State Tour live stream, I didn’t hesitate. He needed a Ustream channel which was previously free but now cost a minimum of $200/month. Coincidentally, I had a spare Ustream channel that I used for testing purposes. Rather than watching him buy one and take that money from his players, I gave him my channel free of charge. I was happy to help a good person who really cares about the game.
So, What Really Happened?
Oscar Dominguez and Skyler Woodward had agreed to play their match on July 22 and 23 beginning at 4pm each day and then asked Ray Hansen to stream it via PPV. I assume that Ray and the two players would split the PPV revenue in some fashion – as is usually the case. Neither of the three parties knew that we had already scheduled and announced The Kamui Challenge and The Tiger Challenge for July 22 and 23 beginning at 5pm each day.
When I saw the flyer for their match, I immediately called Ray Hansen. Ray informed me that he was not the organizer so the scheduling was out of his control. He was simply asked to stream it. I then called Oscar. He was completely unaware of the conflict and was very apologetic. After discussing possible solutions to avoid the conflict, Oscar’s girlfriend (Desiree Rivera) proposed a solution. She suggested that the Oscar/Skyler match begin at 2pm each day and take a long break at 5pm when our challenge matches began. This would prevent a situation in which two PPV streams were running simultaneously and people that wanted to watch both could do so. Oscar, Ray, and I all agreed that this was a good solution and would benefit everyone.
Oscar then contacted Skyler to get his approval. A few minutes later, Oscar called me back and said that Skyler’s backer said, “No…the match will be played as originally agreed.” I then contacted Skyler and explained the entire situation to him. He seemed to understand and said that he would speak with his backer and get back with me shortly. A day later, he still had not contacted me so I reached out again. He said that he hadn’t spoken with his backer yet but would do so soon. I expressed the urgency and he seemed to understand. Another day went by and I reached out to him again. He then said that they were not going to move the match up to accommodate us. I explained to him that running two PPV streams would not be good for either of us because we may split the audience rather than giving people the opportunity to watch both. I again asked him and his backer to reconsider so we could work with each other rather than against each other. Again, they said, “No.” I then explained to Skyler that his unwillingness to compromise would damage our live stream viewership, interfere with our ability to recover the cost of paying the players and the stream crew, and hurt our sponsors – Kamui and Tiger. He still said, “No.” Finally, I told him that if he maintained his position to intentionally harm us and our sponsors, we would have to seriously consider whether or not to accept his entry into our events (which he had not yet registered for). He and his backer finally agreed to compromise.
I then informed Oscar and Ray that Skyler agreed. Ray and I agreed that he would encourage his viewers to flip over to our challenge match and we would encourage our viewers to flip over to his later in the evening. We would work with each other rather than compete for the same tiny market of PPV viewers.
Bullying?
What happened was not bullying. CSI guaranteed $30,000 to be added to the US Open events and we had to pay a live stream crew of seven (7) people for 11 days. We recover some (definitely not all) of that money through sponsorships, VIP seats, and live stream revenue. Additionally, our sponsors pay for exposure. A competing PPV stream scheduled directly on top of our two challenge matches would limit their exposure and make them less likely to be a sponsor in future years. Without sponsors, there are either no events or smaller prize funds in the future – both of which are bad for the players. Our position was simple and logical…if you intentionally harm us or our sponsors, you may not be welcome to play in our events. That’s not bullying…that’s accountability for your choices.
There also seems to be some notion that people have a right to play in various independent events produced by individual businesses. That is untrue. Like most businesses, the entities that provide the funding have the right to refuse service to anyone. Although we want everyone to participate and have equal opportunity at our events, we are not required to service someone who intentionally harms us, our sponsors, or our other members. This holds true for someone who organizes a competing live stream directly on top of ours or someone who publically attacks us on social media. They have the absolute right to do those things and we have the absolute right to not do business with them. Again, that’s not bullying…that’s accepting the consequences of your actions.
Final Thoughts
So, there it is. Those are the details. You have the right to agree or disagree. You have the right to continue to post whatever comments you wish. You have the right to publically criticize or attack me or CSI anytime you wish. None of that really bothers me or will deter us from pushing forward and making a real difference in an otherwise tragic industry. This will be the last time that I ever reply on AZBilliards to a “demand for answers” based on a contrived conspiracy by people who contribute nothing but negativity and divisiveness. So, if you ever wonder why there is no response from CSI on this forum, there is your answer.
To all of those good people who make up the silent majority here, I don’t blame you for not posting here and we truly thank you for your support. Thank you.
As some of you may have noticed, I no longer engage in opinion or debate on this forum. I only use it to provide information about our events and to answer legitimate questions. The sad reality is that there are a few people here that do nothing but attack and spread negativity. I often joke with Mark Griffin that we could publish the cure for cancer here and get repeatedly attacked.
I don’t respond to these often ridiculous posts for two very simple reasons. First, I have a company to run and important work to do. I have a responsibility to Mark Griffin, our employees, our members, and our sponsors. Responding to every silly accusation or comment would divert me from the real work to be done. Secondly, reacting to these people gives them and their comments some form of legitimacy. As you can see in a few of the comments in this thread, there are some people here that will constantly criticize your every action. There are even some who lodge personal attacks without knowing me or any of the information that goes into my decisions. I really don’t mind because I’m an adult and it comes with the job. I usually just chuckle and get back to work. As an adult and a professional, I refuse to engage on that basis.
There also seems to be some notion that the details of every action, decision, or negotiation in the pool industry should be posted for public consumption. That notion is false and should be rejected by any rational person.
So, in the future, when you see negative comments, accusations, or personal attacks against me or CSI, you will see no reaction. Silence is not an admission of guilt. Again, I have far better things to do with my limited time. With that said, I will always try to answer legitimate questions and respond to serious and civil posts.
A Little Background
Against my better judgment, I will explain what happened in this situation and it will be the last time I ever do so on the AZBilliards forum. Before I do, it may be helpful to understand a little background. Ray Hansen and I have been friends since 2011. He helped me tremendously when I was setting up the live stream for The Action Pool Tour on the east coast. He spend a lot of his valuable time on the phone explaining what I needed and how to make it work. He even mailed me a few computer components that I lacked. He did this and never asked for anything in return.
Oscar and I have been friends since 2013. I could tell immediately that he was a good person raised in a great family. He rarely has anything negative to say and he is doing great things on the west coast. The effort he has put into the Mezz West State Tour surpasses anything I have done with The Action Pool Tour. I think I did a good job but he is doing a great job. I admire what he is doing so when he asked me for help in setting up the Mezz West State Tour live stream, I didn’t hesitate. He needed a Ustream channel which was previously free but now cost a minimum of $200/month. Coincidentally, I had a spare Ustream channel that I used for testing purposes. Rather than watching him buy one and take that money from his players, I gave him my channel free of charge. I was happy to help a good person who really cares about the game.
So, What Really Happened?
Oscar Dominguez and Skyler Woodward had agreed to play their match on July 22 and 23 beginning at 4pm each day and then asked Ray Hansen to stream it via PPV. I assume that Ray and the two players would split the PPV revenue in some fashion – as is usually the case. Neither of the three parties knew that we had already scheduled and announced The Kamui Challenge and The Tiger Challenge for July 22 and 23 beginning at 5pm each day.
When I saw the flyer for their match, I immediately called Ray Hansen. Ray informed me that he was not the organizer so the scheduling was out of his control. He was simply asked to stream it. I then called Oscar. He was completely unaware of the conflict and was very apologetic. After discussing possible solutions to avoid the conflict, Oscar’s girlfriend (Desiree Rivera) proposed a solution. She suggested that the Oscar/Skyler match begin at 2pm each day and take a long break at 5pm when our challenge matches began. This would prevent a situation in which two PPV streams were running simultaneously and people that wanted to watch both could do so. Oscar, Ray, and I all agreed that this was a good solution and would benefit everyone.
Oscar then contacted Skyler to get his approval. A few minutes later, Oscar called me back and said that Skyler’s backer said, “No…the match will be played as originally agreed.” I then contacted Skyler and explained the entire situation to him. He seemed to understand and said that he would speak with his backer and get back with me shortly. A day later, he still had not contacted me so I reached out again. He said that he hadn’t spoken with his backer yet but would do so soon. I expressed the urgency and he seemed to understand. Another day went by and I reached out to him again. He then said that they were not going to move the match up to accommodate us. I explained to him that running two PPV streams would not be good for either of us because we may split the audience rather than giving people the opportunity to watch both. I again asked him and his backer to reconsider so we could work with each other rather than against each other. Again, they said, “No.” I then explained to Skyler that his unwillingness to compromise would damage our live stream viewership, interfere with our ability to recover the cost of paying the players and the stream crew, and hurt our sponsors – Kamui and Tiger. He still said, “No.” Finally, I told him that if he maintained his position to intentionally harm us and our sponsors, we would have to seriously consider whether or not to accept his entry into our events (which he had not yet registered for). He and his backer finally agreed to compromise.
I then informed Oscar and Ray that Skyler agreed. Ray and I agreed that he would encourage his viewers to flip over to our challenge match and we would encourage our viewers to flip over to his later in the evening. We would work with each other rather than compete for the same tiny market of PPV viewers.
Bullying?
What happened was not bullying. CSI guaranteed $30,000 to be added to the US Open events and we had to pay a live stream crew of seven (7) people for 11 days. We recover some (definitely not all) of that money through sponsorships, VIP seats, and live stream revenue. Additionally, our sponsors pay for exposure. A competing PPV stream scheduled directly on top of our two challenge matches would limit their exposure and make them less likely to be a sponsor in future years. Without sponsors, there are either no events or smaller prize funds in the future – both of which are bad for the players. Our position was simple and logical…if you intentionally harm us or our sponsors, you may not be welcome to play in our events. That’s not bullying…that’s accountability for your choices.
There also seems to be some notion that people have a right to play in various independent events produced by individual businesses. That is untrue. Like most businesses, the entities that provide the funding have the right to refuse service to anyone. Although we want everyone to participate and have equal opportunity at our events, we are not required to service someone who intentionally harms us, our sponsors, or our other members. This holds true for someone who organizes a competing live stream directly on top of ours or someone who publically attacks us on social media. They have the absolute right to do those things and we have the absolute right to not do business with them. Again, that’s not bullying…that’s accepting the consequences of your actions.
Final Thoughts
So, there it is. Those are the details. You have the right to agree or disagree. You have the right to continue to post whatever comments you wish. You have the right to publically criticize or attack me or CSI anytime you wish. None of that really bothers me or will deter us from pushing forward and making a real difference in an otherwise tragic industry. This will be the last time that I ever reply on AZBilliards to a “demand for answers” based on a contrived conspiracy by people who contribute nothing but negativity and divisiveness. So, if you ever wonder why there is no response from CSI on this forum, there is your answer.
To all of those good people who make up the silent majority here, I don’t blame you for not posting here and we truly thank you for your support. Thank you.
What was Sky's backers reason for repeatedly saying no?
Is this the same guy from either Jeffersonville or Louisville who was staking Justin?
Is this the same guy from either Jeffersonville or Louisville who was staking Justin?
Thats a lot of words to say that you strong armed a player so you wouldn't have to compete. When Matchroom gave you the points did they say it was cool you pick and choose who you let play based on if they competed with you in some way on an unrelated event?
Spin it how you want it was a slimy move.
With leaders like you the industry has a bright future. Glad I'm on the outside looking in now.
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So you bullied Sky...case closed...thank you. What Bigtruck is doing is one of the best ways to go for, not a casino with all the bells & whistles and extra expense that the players and viewers and live gate wind up paying for. Notice what happened to the WPBA when they didn't change. Johnnyt
I would agree with almost everything you said except for your use and over use of the word 'intentional'. You stated that Ray, Oscar, Sky and his backers had no knowledge of the CSI streams. It wasn't like the dates of the Oscar/Sky match were picked out to try to put a dent in CSI. If anything, and Ray may never admit this, I bet it was to make things easier on him to have two streamed matches at the beginning of the Vegas run so if he wanted to leave he could. Originally, Oscar was to play Bergman at the beginning and Sky at the end of the two weeks of tournaments out there.
So yes Oscar was accommodating. And Ray was too. But I can understand why Sky and his backer - betting a large sum of money - didn't want to change the parameter of their match. Two things should have happened that didn't --- communication should have been done to everyone at once. Then all effected parties could voice their concerns and understand them fully. There would be nothing lost in translation. After that if Sky and his backer didn't want to pause the match, Ray should have made the offer to cancel the stream portion of it. Again the action is way more weighted than any stream or customer viewer. It NEVER should have had to come down to a threat to Sky to keep him out of the CSI events. Yes you have the right to refuse service to anyone but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't accomplish anything.
So yes Oscar was accommodating. And Ray was too. But I can understand why Sky and his backer - betting a large sum of money - didn't want to change the parameter of their match. Two things should have happened that didn't --- communication should have been done to everyone at once. Then all effected parties could voice their concerns and understand them fully. There would be nothing lost in translation. After that if Sky and his backer didn't want to pause the match, Ray should have made the offer to cancel the stream portion of it. Again the action is way more weighted than any stream or customer viewer. It NEVER should have had to come down to a threat to Sky to keep him out of the CSI events. Yes you have the right to refuse service to anyone but in the grand scheme of things, that doesn't accomplish anything.
wow. Absolutely mind boggling.
I'm not even sure where I'd start with a comment on this: your arrogance, utter lack of PR savvy, or the low move you put on Sky. I've always been a big fan of CSI, in spite of an occasional difference of opinion. But this is beyond the pale, even by the low standards we often set for ourselves as pool players.
Lou Figueroa
Sour grapes from a former employee. Not your best post by far.
Sorry Lou, I thought Ozzy laid it out pretty clearly here. He has a business to run and if you mess with his business, it may cost you. I've owned a dozen businesses in my life and always have reserved the right to refuse service to anyone! I've had people come into my poolroom and promote an event being held in another poolroom without even asking me, going so far as to put flyers all over the place. Maybe you think that's cool too. I didn't and let him know not to come back. And that's how I roll.
In situations such as this, men of goodwill try to find an accommodation that everyone can live with.
When that is not possible then each party must make a business decision that they are prepared to live with and accept the consequences of that decision. CSI should be applauded for clearly stating their position and the consequences that would follow. It is not personal, it is not to bullying, it is simply business.
When that is not possible then each party must make a business decision that they are prepared to live with and accept the consequences of that decision. CSI should be applauded for clearly stating their position and the consequences that would follow. It is not personal, it is not to bullying, it is simply business.
But for real. WOW! Intentionally harm you? Really?! They made a game, the details were set and he was happy with the terms of the game he made. They set those terms before you ever announced your match that didn't involve him at all. It's just sad and delusional that you even see this situation like that.
I still can't believe that this stream had that many viewers. I watch a lot of them and talk to a lot of people that watch a lot of them and no one I know got the stream. Literally not a single person. Of course we will never know the numbers, they're kept private and I understand why, but I don't know where the viewers are coming from if this stream really did have that many viewers. I didn't watch this year because CSI has been going downhill the past couple of years, IMO, and I just chose to not give them my 65 bucks to watch a bunch of champions play on a bar table for 10 days. Now hearing that they told Sky to either postpone his match or get barred from their tourney, I will never give CSI another penny. There's too many people trying to get a piece of the VERY small pool PPV market and it's getting too diluted. Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later.