Wood to Wood VS SS Joint Feel

I can't play with heavy piloted SS collared cue. Too forward weighted for me.
I think Rodney just has never shot with a good non-SS collared cue .
He did shoot his best with his old Szamboti though.

Anybody who would say that someone at Mr. Morris's level doesn't know what he is talking about is not interested in figuring out the truth.

That said, there is no evidence other than anecdotal to back up Mr. Morris's claims.

How has he tested this theory? Has he done blind tests with many cues? When he did these blind tests, was he aware of which ones were wood-to-wood and which were SS? Were these tests done under consistent conditions?

In other words, what did he do to remove his bias?

This is what we in the scientific community try to question. We want to know how a person arrives at his conclusion. We can then debate and either prove or disprove a hypothesis.

I think i could

HawaiianEye said:

I've read numerous posts on here about how nobody can feel the difference between a 3/8-10 pin and a 5/16-14.

I think you can...at least some people.

I'm listening to Rodney Morris in the booth at the XPC tournament and he just said that he can't play a wood to wood joint as well as a SS joint because he doesn't get the same "vibrations" (I'm using his ACTUAL word) and he has to play "area" position with a wood to wood because it doesn't feel the same.

I'll let the nay sayers come in now and say Rodney doesn't know what he is talking about.

I can definitely feel the difference between my cues with different joints.

FWIW, Rodney said he was using one of Lucky's cues with a REGULAR shaft and a regular tip (not layered).

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I think I could tell the difference by the difference in the vibration.
And I really think the balance point could be change where it wasn't so front heavy.

HawaiianEye said:

He is using a GOOD cue with a wood to wood joint in this tournament and he still says he can play better with a SS joint.

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Ok, first, the cue is not really wood to wood . It has a joint collar .
More likely phenolic.

Now, if he says he likes piloted SS joint like his old Gus, then that's what he likes . The Miz shot with one . Efren's best days was during he shot with his $15 front heavy long SS jointed cue as well.
Does the SS collar make the cue resonate more ?
Maybe.
But, SW has no problems with their 1/2 sleeved phenolic collar and brass screw.

.............

HawaiianEye said:

I've read numerous posts on here about how nobody can feel the difference between a 3/8-10 pin and a 5/16-14.

I think you can...at least some people.

I'm listening to Rodney Morris in the booth at the XPC tournament and he just said that he can't play a wood to wood joint as well as a SS joint because he doesn't get the same "vibrations" (I'm using his ACTUAL word) and he has to play "area" position with a wood to wood because it doesn't feel the same.

I'll let the nay sayers come in now and say Rodney doesn't know what he is talking about.

I can definitely feel the difference between my cues with different joints.

FWIW, Rodney said he was using one of Lucky's cues with a REGULAR shaft and a regular tip (not layered).

Click to expand...

Somebody (one of the Texas Express founders?) did a blindfold test several years ago and nobody could tell the difference.

pj
chgo

Lots of people would love to see another "blindfold test" done on a larger,more detailed scale involving the more advanced players who really shoot a lot of pool.Maybe one day someone will be able to set it up !!!

I can not tell the difference when I like the cues

Cues

peppersauce said:

I haven't sampled nearly enough cues with different joint types to give a truly experienced opinion, but I can share my perspective.

My all time three favorite cues are a 5/16-14 piloted SS joint cue, a 5/16-14 flat face wood to wood cue, and my old Olivier with a 3/8-10 wood to wood joint.

I don't have the Olivier anymore, but it had a very solid yet supple hit and moved the CB with ease.

My flat faced 5/16-14 cue is just as solid and supple, but is a little pingy on some shots.

My SS joint cue hits HARD. It's very pingy and has a lot more "spine" to it. You feel every bit of the hit with that cue. Punch shots and jump shots are no problem. The CB feels like it just flys off the tip with that cue.

The SS joint cue is my fav, followed closely by the 5/16-14 flat faced cue. I would still have the Olivier if the threads in the shaft hadn't failed.

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All my cues are 3/8 x 10 or 3/8 x 11

I don't think the test would be a blind fold but something to just cover the cue so the person shouldn't know if what kind of joint it is.

I could see putting a LD shaft in the mix could mix me up on what kind of joint it is .

Was that blind test done with the same mfr. cue, model, shaft, tip, but different joints ?

I have 2 cues from the same mfr., same shaft, same tip, 2 different joints. Call me crazy, I can tell a difference.






Viking Cues offers different joint styles. On their website they describe the different styles and how the hit is different.

http://www.vikingcue.com/joint-styles-1/

Everything else being the same, makes sense that some can tell a difference between an all metal joint vs. one that threads directly into wood without a collar.

[quote name="The Renfro" post=4521996]2 parts to that question.. Ferrules absolutely alter a cues play and feel significantly... You can have your ferrule changed and immediately tell a difference going from ivory to juma or vice versa... Other materials may be similar enough that the difference is not noticeable...

As far as joints year ago they taped up joints so you couldn't tell if you were hitting a stainless steel, ivory or phenolic... There may have been more options but I don't recall... No one could id the joint type in a blind test... The thing here to me is that it was totally blind... I have to think that if you swapped the joint materials on my cue that I could tell but that is a test that would be almost impossible to conduct...

The reason I think this is because over the years I have gravitated to big pin flat faced phenolic jointed cues.. I currently have gotten rid of every stainless steel jointed cue I own and I won't even look at a cue that has one anymore...

The joint part of course is my opinion and I know a few cuemakers who would argue otherwise... Bob Jewett had some interesting insight into the force wave transferring from the tip down to the bumper and back up the cue and seemed to agree that some materials would definitely be more dampening than others.....

Chris[/QUOTE]

Very well put!!!

I agree with the Big Pins and flat face wood to wood cues as well! Here is a little science video on resonance and what happens when resonance transfers??? Pretty interesting stuff. Keep in mind, the video shows two tuning forks made out of the SAME material I.E. the same wood species. it is theoretically possible to achieve similar results with different materials as long as they "resonate on the same frequency"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBXceaUKTSc
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiHOqMOJTH4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=722ev4GqArY
Enjoy

KD

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

2twoball said:

Lots of people would love to see another "blindfold test" done on a larger,more detailed scale involving the more advanced players who really shoot a lot of pool.Maybe one day someone will be able to set it up !!!

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Larger, more detailed and more advanced than what? Are you familiar with the test I mentioned?

pj
chgo

Just buy what you like aesthetically. You'll get used to the cue no matter how it "feels" given enough time.

Patrick,I'm familiar with it if it's the one I'm thinking.IIRC a Scruggs sneaky was picked as best hit.Is this the same test you refer to?If not,could you please supply us a link???

2twoball said:

Patrick,I'm familiar with it if it's the one I'm thinking.IIRC a Scruggs sneaky was picked as best hit.Is this the same test you refer to?If not,could you please supply us a link???

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I thought it was on RSB, but I haven't found it there yet...

Maybe somebody else remembers. If I recall correctly, it was at a tournament in Texas sometime in the 90s, tested and reported by one of the Texas Express originators (whose names I forget).

pj
chgo

Whats the difference? Even if a player can feel the difference between various cues in a blindfold test, that does not translate into a cue that can make more shots than another cue.

We've seen time and time again, from the local level all the way to the pro level, players change cues 10 times over the years, and still play the same level with all the cues. That is comparing the same player, across many different cues.

Then you have the other comparison, of top pros, using different manufacturer's cues. A $15 junk Efren cue is no better or worse than a top Chinese Taipei player using a SW cue, is no better or worse than Rodney using a steel Szmaboti cue, is no better or worse then Shane or Earl using a Cuetech cue, and is no better or worse than Buggs using a house cue.

If Rodney had grown up playing a wood to wood joint, he might have made the opposite comment.

If someone can tell a difference, then maybe they have a preference.

They like how it feels, sounds, balances. Do you have a favorite shirt, pair of shoes, jeans, hat, etc.. Something about them you just like and feel comfortable with ?

Most of us will play just as good or bad with a house cue.