Justin Bergman going to Mosconi Cup for Team USA

KRJ

KRJ

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BRussell said:
Yeah, and Johann et al. made the rules to help pick the best group, so they should change the rules if they want to. It’s not the law, it’s not an international agreement, it’s just to play a game.

In Justin’s Facebook post he said he knew he had a chance if he played well, so it must have been understood that it was possible.
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You're preaching to the choir son ;) Sometimes I throw the other side a bone just so they have something to "chew" on ;) In the end, was the best decision made. Yuup.

Most of us have to make tough decisions every day at work. Sometimes not very popular, but if it's the correct one, there is really not much that can be said. I'm hoping JB tears it the fug up ;)
 
M

Mole Eye

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Anybody know how Justin did in his previous Mosconi appearances? Google didn't help me much, and what I saw wasn't promising.
 
S

Stew_Pidaso

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Mole Eye said:
Anybody know how Justin did in his previous Mosconi appearances? Google didn't help me much, and what I saw wasn't promising.
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I believe records don't tell the whole story when looking at his past performances. He was on 3 teams and all 3 teams lost. Mark Wilson was the captain all 3 years. Mark kept track of all the players TPA numbers for all 3 years and Justin was the highest on USA all 3 years. So while his record didn't reflect it, the eye test and performance average shows he performed the best of the Americans. Justin was in the high 0.8xx to low 0.9xx TPA all 3 years. As Mark describes it, 0.850 is Pro level and 0.900 is world class.
 
BryanB

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I saw a comment that Johan made saying everyone in contention was told that someone may be able to play their way in. They all know this was a possibility. It happened and now people need to get over it
 
sjm

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BryanB said:
I saw a comment that Johan made saying everyone in contention was told that someone may be able to play their way in. They all know this was a possibility. It happened and now people need to get over it
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This does not stand up to scrutiny unless it is assumed that the pool media, and consequently the public, was lied to. Read this article about the selection of Billy Thorpe and you'll understand. It comes straight from AZB Headline news of October 3, 2019.

Thorpe Is Fourth On Team USA For Partypoker Mosconi Cup

Billy Thorpe has been selected by Coach Johan Ruijsink as the fourth player to join Team USA for the 2019 partypoker Mosconi Cup, which will take place at Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino Convention Center, Las Vegas this November 25-28, live on Sky Sports and DAZN.

Thorpe made his partypoker Mosconi Cup debut at Mandalay Bay Resort in 2017 and was part of the American side which stunned Europe with an 11-9 victory at Alexandra Palace last December. At the start of this year he won the Derby City Classic 9-Ball Banks Division and has gone deep in a number of major tournaments including the US Open 9-Ball Championship and Turning Stone Classic.

At 23-years-old, Thorpe is the youngest member of the team and will join Shane Van Boening, Skyler Woodward and Tyler Styer in Las Vegas. Corey Deuel and Max Eberle will battle it out for the fifth and final place on the team, with Coach Ruijsink and Vice-Coach Jeremy Jones to make that decision after the International Open...…..

So no, people shouldn't get over it.
 
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lfigueroa

lfigueroa

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It appears that there was an announced process of selection.

A couple of guys played their hearts out under the delusional concept of the announced process bringing followed in a fair manner.

So what ends up happening?

From all indications, the process is thrown out the window at the finish line and all can revel in their “win at any cost,” “field our best team” mentality and the process be damned.

Lou Figueroa
“Forget it, Jake
It’s Chinatown”
 
shinobi

shinobi

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I hope that at the very least that Corey and Max were reasonably compensated for the extra time and investment they made during their efforts to make the team.
 
jay helfert

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sjm said:
That's not what happened here.

A better parallel would be baseball players wishful of earning a job on a baseball team despite not being at spring training (for those who don't follow baseball, spring training is the preseason tryout). It is as If all the second baseman who came to spring training were told by the manager, we've decided to go with two other guys who aren't even here.

The two Russia events, the Kremlin Cup and the Dream Challenge were the equivalent of spring training tryouts in the case of choosing the last members of Team USA, and Bergman wasn't there for either. In the aftermath of this "spring training" Johann added Styer and Thorpe to Team USA and publicly announced that Eberle and Deuel would settle the matter of who would get the final spot on Team USA at the International.

No, this doesn't happen all the time, and I'm not sure it ever happens.
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Sorry Stu, you're scenario is not totally correct about baseball. Every year there are minor leaguers who did not get to the Major League spring training camp and worked out in the minor league camp and started the season at the AA or AAA level. They made such a big impression there, that were subsequently called up to the big leagues. Other players who went to the big league camp were then sent down to make room for them.

Like I said, it happens every year. There have been guys who started the year at single A and went all to the way to the majors in one year! They went right past guys who had been laboring in AAA all year waiting to get called up.
 
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BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

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These terrible comparisons to other sports need to stop.

The difference in a sport like baseball is those guys know there's a chance someone could get picked before them.

Before the International Open, Max and Corey both believed it was down to one of them for the last spot. As did pretty much anyone who follows this stuff.

What good is a process if it can't be followed?
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
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lfigueroa said:
It appears that there was an announced process of selection.

A couple of guys played their hearts out under the delusional concept of the announced process bringing followed in a fair manner.

So what ends up happening?

From all indications, the process is thrown out the window at the finish line and all can revel in their “win at any cost,” “field our best team” mentality and the process be damned.

Lou Figueroa
“Forget it, Jake
It’s Chinatown”
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How dare we field our best team.
 
sjm

sjm

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jay helfert said:
Sorry Stu, you're scenario is not totally correct about baseball. Every year there are minor leaguers who did not get to the Major League spring training camp and worked out in the minor league camp and started the season at the AA or AAA level. They made such a big impression there, that were subsequently called up to the big leagues. Other players who went to the big league camp were then sent down to make room for them.

Like I said, it happens every year. There have been guys who started the year at single A and went all to the way to the majors in one year! They went right past guys who had been laboring in AAA all year waiting to get called up.
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Yes, but not even one of them made the original major league roster without going to the major league team's spring training. Getting called up midseason is not in any way comparable to making the original team roster when the season competition begins. No, it doesn't happen all the time --- it happens never. Justin Bergman, despite missing Johan's de facto tryouts at the Kremlin Cup and Dream Challenge, made the opening day Mosconi roster and is, therefore, unlike any of these players who earned midseason callups in baseball.

If American fans fully pardon the undermining of the publicly announced Mosconi selection process, it doesn't bode well for the process going forward.
 
BRussell

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Part of why I love this decision is that it gets the “you must follow the rules!” people kvetching. It’s another way to build the hype in the weeks leading up to the event. :p
 
jay helfert

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sjm said:
Yes, but not even one of them made the original major league roster without going to the major league team's spring training. Getting called up midseason is not in any way comparable to making the original team roster when the season competition begins. No, it doesn't happen all the time --- it happens never. Justin Bergman, despite missing Johan's de facto tryouts at the Kremlin Cup and Dream Challenge, made the opening day Mosconi roster and is, therefore, unlike any of these players who earned midseason callups in baseball.

If American fans fully pardon the undermining of the publicly announced Mosconi selection process, it doesn't bode well for the process going forward.
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Sorry to bust your bubble again Stu, but there have been players who went from the minor league camp directly to the major league camp and onto the big league roster without a stop in the minors. Rare, but it has happened.

Regardless of your feelings about how Justin was chosen, I would counter that it was completely within their scope of responsibility for the Team Captain and Co-Captain to make. They made a tough choice that was certain to make some people unhappy, but they made that choice in the best interests of Team USA. I salute Max for handling it so well.

I will not second guess this decision made by the Captain who brought Team USA to victory after eight years of drought. Johan's actual statement and not those attributed to him on here was that he would make his final pick after the International Open. He did not say it could only be Max or Corey. That was implied by others. There was always an opening for a stunning performance to change everything and that's exactly what happened.
 
Cardigan Kid

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jay helfert said:
Sorry to bust your bubble again Stu, but there have been players who went from the minor league camp directly to the major league camp and onto the big league roster without a stop in the minors. Rare, but it has happened.

Regardless of your feelings about how Justin was chosen, I would counter that it was completely within their scope of responsibility for the Team Captain and Co-Captain to make. They made a tough choice that was certain to make some people unhappy, but they made that choice in the best interests of Team USA. I salute Max for handling it so well.

I will not second guess this decision made by the Captain who brought Team USA to victory after eight years of drought. Johan's actual statement and not those attributed to him on here was that he would make his final pick after the International Open. He did not say it could only be Max or Corey. That was implied by others. There was always an opening for a stunning performance to change everything and that's exactly what happened.
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We also have to put this all into perspective here—Justin is arguably the second best rotation player in the USA. In any other sport, a selection process would’ve picked the 2nd best of that sport in a second when compared to the rest of the field.

So what really is in error here is the selection process itself. But without a defined North American Tour with ranking points, the Only reliable selection process is the judgement of the Captain. And here we are with Justin on the team.

If we flash to an alternate future where Corey is on the team, or Max, and if we were to lose with either of those two players underperforming, there would be a few threads for sure questioning Johan’s judgement in sticking with a selection process that did not include the #2 rotation player in the USA.

Like you said, Johan came with a coaching system that brought the trophy back into USA’s hands and now he’s trying to keep the trophy here.
 
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Ty Arnold

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Yeah there was a process. But here in America it is all about the money. He thinks he has a better chance at the money with Justin bottom line.
 
jasonlaus

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Cardigan Kid said:
We also have to put this all into perspective here—Justin is arguably the second best rotation player in the USA. In any other sport, a selection process would’ve picked the 2nd best of that sport in a second when compared to the rest of the field.

So what really is in error here is the selection process itself. But without a defined North American Tour with ranking points, the Only reliable selection process is the judgement of the Captain. And here we are with Justin on the team.

If we flash to an alternate future where Corey is on the team, or Max, and if we were to lose with either of those two players underperforming, there would be a few threads for sure questioning Johan’s judgement in sticking with a selection process that did not include the #2 rotation player in the USA.

Like you said, Johan came with a coaching system that brought the trophy back into USA’s hands and now he’s trying to keep the trophy here.
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Then why isnt Dechaine on the team?
 
Cardigan Kid

Cardigan Kid

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jasonlaus said:
Then why isnt Dechaine on the team?
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Good question, but I’ll refer to the no-points-tour-only-Coach-picks selection process for not having a path for Dechaine.
And I’m sure if Dechaine was playing regularly and carved up the list of pro’s that Justin did last week, he would be in consideration.

There is that line from the movie Jerry Maguire:
“it’s not ‘show friends’, it’s ‘show business’”

That applies here in regards to Johan’s statement.
 
sjm

sjm

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jay helfert said:
Sorry to bust your bubble again Stu, but there have been players who went from the minor league camp directly to the major league camp and onto the big league roster without a stop in the minors. Rare, but it has happened. .
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OK, I didn't know that. It has never happened in the case of the New York Mets, a team to which I am a 28 year season ticket holder, that a player that only participated in minor league spring training tryouts, which start well after the major league spring training tryouts, did so well there they made the opening day major league roster so the possibility wasn't on my radar. Can you name one of them, as I'd like to learn more? [/quote]

jay helfert;6512584I will not second guess this decision made by the Captain who brought Team USA to victory after eight years of drought. Johan's actual statement and not those attributed to him on here was that he would make his final pick after the International Open.[/quote said:
Neither I nor anyone in the thread has second guessed this pick, only the bastardization of the process.


jay helfert said:
He did not say it could only be Max or Corey. That was implied by others. There was always an opening for a stunning performance to change everything and that's exactly what happened.
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Yes, he did say it, and it was publicly announced to the billiard press and reported in an AZB Headline News Article of October 3, 2019.

Jay, this was just a screwup. Everyone understands that the end result is the best one for Matchroom and for Team USA,, but the process took a hit here and no number of excuses will erase the fact that this needs correction and far greater definition going forward.
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