It was in fact TJ La Flamme. To answer Craig's question, I have broken 100 a few times, with 145 being my high run. But I don't play straight pool that often.
100 ball runs...
- Thread starter Gerry
- Start date
yes it was in chelsford and it was tj laflamme. TJ could run balls easily. but the best run of 100 balls i have ever witnessed was when Joe Canton came into the Golden Cue in Albany NY and ran 100 balls on table 11. what made it so fantastic was he used only 4 pockets.... the 2 side pockets and the 2 foot corner pockets. i have never seen anyone do it since....................mike
Gerry said:Asking the old school powers that be: I'm wondering how often the kings of 14.1 actually ran 100's? I've heard Grady say on a tape that Harold Worst practiced every day til he ran 200!. I've also heard about all the great players giving exhibitions and hitting 100 most every time. Is this just a very small percentage of the population of 14.1 greats, or was it more common to hit the century mark?
The reason I ask is I have hit the wall badly practicing 14.1. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I am running 40/50/60 every day, but can't get to 100!!I don't know what to try? I"m keeping track of my runs and run stoppers, going over video, but holy friggin crap I want to smash something!!
Maybe I need a break, but I made a resolution to hit 100 again this year, so I wanted to get it over with early in the year....I dunno..
Backing away from the ledge...
Gerry
an old time straight pool player once told me that the hardest way to run alot of balls was to stop trying to run them and not to try as hard and then only after you stop trying so hard will the runs come. hope that makes sense. i guess what you should do is just keep hitting balls and the run will eventually happen. btw...his high run was over 190..........mike
Alex Kanapilly said:
Hey Alex,
Welcome to the board. When we gonna play some 1-pocket? Hope all's well....
Regards,
Doug (in Boulder)
Gerry,
I don't think this idea will help me (as I am at my own sticking point), but Babe Cranefield says in his Straigh Pool Bible that high run numbers tend place a lot of pressure and mental strain on players. I wouldn't disagree. He suggested that to aleviate this effect one might want to this of his run in terms of frames instead of balls.
Also, while I agree that one pocket is a great game, I don't see how breaking a rack of 8 ball and running 15 into one hole is even remotely related to one-pocket. So much of one pocket is dealing with the stack and banks, running an open rack into one hole, while surely hard, is not one pocket. I have witnessed runs of 15 into one pocket on several occasions DURING ONE POCKET GAMES and these runs of fifteen are nothing like running an open rack.
kollegedave
I don't think this idea will help me (as I am at my own sticking point), but Babe Cranefield says in his Straigh Pool Bible that high run numbers tend place a lot of pressure and mental strain on players. I wouldn't disagree. He suggested that to aleviate this effect one might want to this of his run in terms of frames instead of balls.
Also, while I agree that one pocket is a great game, I don't see how breaking a rack of 8 ball and running 15 into one hole is even remotely related to one-pocket. So much of one pocket is dealing with the stack and banks, running an open rack into one hole, while surely hard, is not one pocket. I have witnessed runs of 15 into one pocket on several occasions DURING ONE POCKET GAMES and these runs of fifteen are nothing like running an open rack.
kollegedave
jnav447 said:
yongxingtennis
Registered
wat does it mean by hitting 100s? or 200s?
how true it is.there is alot of unfounded talent.about 10 years ago a friend of mine visited some of the older pool halls in New York.he stated there were locals there shooting balls like pros.but they could care less about tournaments or traveling.some people live near the hall and just play all the time and never want to leave their neighborhood.Williebetmore said:
Gerry said:Asking the old school powers that be: I'm wondering how often the kings of 14.1 actually ran 100's? I've heard Grady say on a tape that Harold Worst practiced every day til he ran 200!
Gerry
Hi. I'm an infrequent poster here. My father is in his 70's and used to watch the greats play in NY. He saw Carras do an exhibition where he came out to the table, and after he got his cue out and screwed together, the announcer would say, "Mr. Carras will now run 100 balls." He'd break, run 100, take his cue apart, and leave...never said a word! (at least nothing that most of the crowd could hear).
Jim Rempe also ran 100 on his first try when making his video "How to Run 100 Balls."
Seems to me it was pretty effortless for the really good players.
dwhite
the miz
i just thought i would add to this thread kinda out of the blue, steve mizerak has the most technically correct 100's ive ever seen. no hard shots, not even any hard break shots.... just absolutely perfect pool.
my general thought on the matter, 100's dont come quite as easy for the pros as many think. if they have many innings try at it, they will get it. but given just one, two or three tries at it and it definitely doesn't have to happen and imo likely wont, depending on the table.
i just thought i would add to this thread kinda out of the blue, steve mizerak has the most technically correct 100's ive ever seen. no hard shots, not even any hard break shots.... just absolutely perfect pool.
my general thought on the matter, 100's dont come quite as easy for the pros as many think. if they have many innings try at it, they will get it. but given just one, two or three tries at it and it definitely doesn't have to happen and imo likely wont, depending on the table.
It didn't seem so effortless at the Derby City 14.1 challenge. I don't recall any long runs that didn't have some great shots in the middle. In the finals, I'd give the nod to Thomas Engert who ran 195 with one miss (and one unlucky scratch). Of course, the pockets were pretty tight, and maybe some of the players weren't ready for 14.1.qstroker said:
For the poster who asked what 100's and 200's means.... At 14.1, you shoot any ball into any pocket until only one object ball is left on the table and then you bring the 14 balls back up in a rack (with the front ball missing). You continue to shoot until you miss (or win the game). Each ball counts one point. Some people can make 100 or 200 or 400 or 526 or 625 or 768 in a row. Most people have a hard time getting past 20.
Mike Davis said:
T.J. LeFlamme (forgive the mispelling) was a top player for years, probably the best in the entire New England area.
Bob Jewett said:
A combination of factors at work here. Pretty tough equipment and a lack of practice at 14.1 by the top players. In fact many top players rarely, if ever play 14.1
Of course, Bob may change all that. And yet, there were several runs over 100. At least six or eight, right Bob.
100 Ball Runs
In the old days (like the 50's and 60's) every self respecting pool player learned to play Straight Pool. It was the first game they learned, not the last. And every pool mentor stressed learning to play 14.1 to his students.
When you learned 14.1, you learned how to pocket balls, control the Cue Ball and read the stack. About the only thing you didn't become proficient at was Banks, because they were to be avoided if at all possible.
So, yes the old time players were all very good Straight Pool players. They grew up with the game as their fundamentals. And all the top players could run 100's, or they weren't considered a top player.
Was it easy? Hell no! On a tough table, running 100 balls was and is a feat. Derby City is a good example of this. Many good players tried and only a few succeeded.
Even in the old days, very few runs over a 100 were made on tough equipment. It was an extremely rare feat on the old 5x10's. But a strong player could do it with frequency on a soft 9' table with 5" pockets.
A great player like Mosconi could almost guarantee a 100 ball run in every exhibition, because for the most part he was playing on 5" pockets. Put him on a table with 4.5" pockets and he would not make any guarantees, other than he would beat his opponent. And he did, with a better won-loss record than the Globetrotters.
While watching Mosconi in an exhibition in the 60's in L.A. I overheard someone say he didn't play that good because he never had to make a hard shot. What they failed to realize was that his position play was superb. No one controlled 'whitey' like Willie. The only ones close that I saw were Lassiter, who happened to be a great 14.1 player, and Caras and Crane who had great Cue Ball control also. Crane was also a super shotmaker and made everything he could see.
Unfortunately I didn't see much of Babe Cranfield. He was basically retired and working for Muzak. He didn't play exhibitions (or rarely) and hardly played any tourneys either. Everyone always talked about how great he was, but I couldn't say. Caras came out of retirement (years of strictly exhibitions) to win the U.S. Open 14.1 at age 57. He said he was motivated by people who said he couldn't play anymore.
As far as Mike Eufemia was concerned, he frequently ran two and three hundred balls in practice, but was noted mainly for choking in tournaments.
Just couldn't seem to do it when the heat was on. To my knowledge he never won a major tournament.
Mosconi only played one tournament after age 50 and that was in Burbank, CA in about 1966. Cicero Murphy beat him a match and he finished second to Balsis and then flipped out, going after promoter Arnie Satin. That was Mosconi's final Hoorah.
Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Hopkins and of course the Miz (possessor of the greatest stroke ever) were the last great 14.1 players I've seen. No one since has played as well, including Archer, Strickland, Reyes et al.
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but I for one am extremely doubtful if Efren would have stood a chance against Mizerak or Sigel at 14.1 in their heyday. I know he flatly refused Mike Sigel in the 1980's, and I think Mike offered him 25 to 150. My best recollection is Efren wanted 40 or 50 balls. Efren just didn't have the background or years of experience.
Remember, just because a player can get up and run 100 balls in a 14.1 challenge like Bob Jewett just hosted, does not necessarily mean they are a great Straight Pool player. It is a whole lot different when someone is playing you safe and not leaving any shots. Try sitting on your butt for an hour or two and then getting up there and running 125 and out.
Only the truly great ones could do it and for my money the greatest of them all was Greenleaf. All the oldtimers (including Mosconi, Caras and Crane) worshiped the guy and spoke of him with reverence.
In the old days (like the 50's and 60's) every self respecting pool player learned to play Straight Pool. It was the first game they learned, not the last. And every pool mentor stressed learning to play 14.1 to his students.
When you learned 14.1, you learned how to pocket balls, control the Cue Ball and read the stack. About the only thing you didn't become proficient at was Banks, because they were to be avoided if at all possible.
So, yes the old time players were all very good Straight Pool players. They grew up with the game as their fundamentals. And all the top players could run 100's, or they weren't considered a top player.
Was it easy? Hell no! On a tough table, running 100 balls was and is a feat. Derby City is a good example of this. Many good players tried and only a few succeeded.
Even in the old days, very few runs over a 100 were made on tough equipment. It was an extremely rare feat on the old 5x10's. But a strong player could do it with frequency on a soft 9' table with 5" pockets.
A great player like Mosconi could almost guarantee a 100 ball run in every exhibition, because for the most part he was playing on 5" pockets. Put him on a table with 4.5" pockets and he would not make any guarantees, other than he would beat his opponent. And he did, with a better won-loss record than the Globetrotters.
While watching Mosconi in an exhibition in the 60's in L.A. I overheard someone say he didn't play that good because he never had to make a hard shot. What they failed to realize was that his position play was superb. No one controlled 'whitey' like Willie. The only ones close that I saw were Lassiter, who happened to be a great 14.1 player, and Caras and Crane who had great Cue Ball control also. Crane was also a super shotmaker and made everything he could see.
Unfortunately I didn't see much of Babe Cranfield. He was basically retired and working for Muzak. He didn't play exhibitions (or rarely) and hardly played any tourneys either. Everyone always talked about how great he was, but I couldn't say. Caras came out of retirement (years of strictly exhibitions) to win the U.S. Open 14.1 at age 57. He said he was motivated by people who said he couldn't play anymore.
As far as Mike Eufemia was concerned, he frequently ran two and three hundred balls in practice, but was noted mainly for choking in tournaments.
Just couldn't seem to do it when the heat was on. To my knowledge he never won a major tournament.
Mosconi only played one tournament after age 50 and that was in Burbank, CA in about 1966. Cicero Murphy beat him a match and he finished second to Balsis and then flipped out, going after promoter Arnie Satin. That was Mosconi's final Hoorah.
Sigel, Varner, Rempe, Hopkins and of course the Miz (possessor of the greatest stroke ever) were the last great 14.1 players I've seen. No one since has played as well, including Archer, Strickland, Reyes et al.
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but I for one am extremely doubtful if Efren would have stood a chance against Mizerak or Sigel at 14.1 in their heyday. I know he flatly refused Mike Sigel in the 1980's, and I think Mike offered him 25 to 150. My best recollection is Efren wanted 40 or 50 balls. Efren just didn't have the background or years of experience.
Remember, just because a player can get up and run 100 balls in a 14.1 challenge like Bob Jewett just hosted, does not necessarily mean they are a great Straight Pool player. It is a whole lot different when someone is playing you safe and not leaving any shots. Try sitting on your butt for an hour or two and then getting up there and running 125 and out.
Only the truly great ones could do it and for my money the greatest of them all was Greenleaf. All the oldtimers (including Mosconi, Caras and Crane) worshiped the guy and spoke of him with reverence.
Ok, this is probably a stupid question, but if your practicing by yourself, what kinda break do you use in 14.1? a regular 14.1 type break or just wreck the rack and go at it?
I ask this because normally the breaker in 14.1 just nudges a corner ball and has the CB come back down the table. So your not really able to make a ball on the break that way.
But if you did a second or third ball break you will most likely make a ball and spread the table open for a run. Which is very uncharacteristic of 14.1 since theres no slop.
I only ask this because i hear of guys practicing and doing these 100+ ball runs but are they practicing alone or with a partner?
dave
I ask this because normally the breaker in 14.1 just nudges a corner ball and has the CB come back down the table. So your not really able to make a ball on the break that way.
But if you did a second or third ball break you will most likely make a ball and spread the table open for a run. Which is very uncharacteristic of 14.1 since theres no slop.
I only ask this because i hear of guys practicing and doing these 100+ ball runs but are they practicing alone or with a partner?
dave
Other Great 14.1 Players
Just reread my post and realize I left out some great 14.1 players in the modern era. These guys came in between the Mosconi era and the Mizerak era.
Notables included Harold Worst, Jack (Jersey Red) Breit, Johnny Ervolino, Larry (Boston Shorty) Johnson and the best of the bunch was Eddie Kelly. Joe Balsis was the Mosconi generation, but he never really played until he was in his 40's, so his best years were against the younger crew of Kelly, Worst and friends.
Balsis and Lassiter were the dominant 14.1 players during the 60's. Jimmy Moore was another great player who couldn't quite win the big one.
Just reread my post and realize I left out some great 14.1 players in the modern era. These guys came in between the Mosconi era and the Mizerak era.
Notables included Harold Worst, Jack (Jersey Red) Breit, Johnny Ervolino, Larry (Boston Shorty) Johnson and the best of the bunch was Eddie Kelly. Joe Balsis was the Mosconi generation, but he never really played until he was in his 40's, so his best years were against the younger crew of Kelly, Worst and friends.
Balsis and Lassiter were the dominant 14.1 players during the 60's. Jimmy Moore was another great player who couldn't quite win the big one.
jnav447 said:
J.
I practice 1 pocket a little differently than most I think. I have Allens 1P tape , and I like this drill. Break the balls normally for 1P, and see how many innings you can go without leaving a shot. So far my record is 18. I don't just bunt balls to lock up safeties. I try to play like I normally would, sending balls towards my hole, but always try to never leave a shot. I do this because I play a more "new school" style I believe like Efren or Scott Frost, and I tend to leave too many easy shots for my opponents when I go for the shot sometimes. From playing 14.1 so many years, running balls correctly really isn't too difficult for me, so I practice banks, safeties, and strategy more....
Gerry
> I read an article on Johnston City,maybe one written by George Fels,that said at one event there the late Weenie Beanie had the book open giving 10-1 odds with Harold Worst running the balls,but was allowed to coach him. Harold would be facing a tough shot,and Beanie would suggest a possible solution,and Harold not only made the shot but was asking exactly WHERE Beanie wanted the cue ball afterwards. They busted everyone that bet. In the post-match interview with Sigel after the 150-out on Zuglan,Beanie asked him how many he could have run if the balls would cooperate,and Sigel said "I could have run well,300,cause I could have easily doubled this right?" Has anyone come up with an answer as to why Varner,Sigel,or Zuglan didn't go to DCC and shoot at it,or did they? What about Rempe? The stories about Eufemia abound,and are reportedly 100% true,people that hung there hardcore said he ran a 200 every single night for over 10 years. Tommy D.
jay helfert said:
I remember reading something about Mosconi punching a Tournament director at the end of a tournament. Was this that event, or was Mosconi known to want to have fisticuffs whenever he lost?
Thanks for the great post Jay. You are a wealth of pool history and a real asset to AZB.