15 Ball Ghost Rating Drill

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They are definitely closer. But now, you have 2 letters you have to jump over to make your goal;)

Maybe we don't even need ratings? Do it like the straight pool thread, its just the number of the high run, or in this case, the number of BIH's.

Maybe I'll just skip one of them :)

I could see it working without ratings, but personally, I like them. Even if they aren't perfect right now.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Relavent tale....

I was at DCC a couple years ago, and one person was relaying a conversation he had with Efren to me. It went something like this...

When Efren was at his prime in the 70's in the Philippines, his backers would bet on him "even money" to run an entire rack of rotation (to the 15 ball), as long as he had a shot on the 1 ball.

Don't know if its true or not, but I believed it:)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Rules:
1. Rack all 15 balls. Any order, but the 1 must be at the top, and the 15 in the middle.
2. Break
3. Player can take as many ball in hands each rack until all balls have been made.
4. Player does NOT have to take ball in hand immediately after the break.
5. Player can use a ball in hand at any point during the rack.
6. Play a total of 10 racks.
7. Player's score is determined by the total # of ball in hands taken after all 10 racks are completed.
8. Slop counts.
9. Player must continue shooting even if the 15 ball drops early.

Summary of what is a foul/BIH penalty:
- CB scratch (1 foul)
- OB off table (1 foul, and ball gets spotted)
- Missed shot (1 foul)
- Missed shot and then scratch (1 foul)
- Lowest ball not hit first (2 fouls)
- Lowest ball not hit first and then scratch (2 fouls)
- Make a ball and scratch (1 foul). If a legal hit is made, but the ball that dropped wasn't the lowest ball, it gets spotted. If the lowest ball was made, it stays down.

0-20 Pro
21-30 A
31-40 B
41-60 C
61-70 D
70+ BANGER
Nice job!

FYI, I've added it (with a citation and link) to the "playing the ghost" player-rating resource page.

Also, for people who have already submitted BU playing-ability exam results, I've added the 15-ball-ghost scores, ratings, and video links to the BU thread. That way, people can compare ratings and view videos for BU Exam, 10-ball ghost, and 15-ball ghost drills all in one place, along with table information.

Hopefully, the people who have participated here who have not posted BU Exam results yet (Joe Tucker, Rjmoncrief, BeiberLvr) will also try the BU Exams and post results (and videos if possible) on the BU thread so I can add them to the list. I'm especially hoping Joe will post BU Exam results to help raise the bar Gerry has already set so high.

Thanks again for your hard work on this. When I can find some time, I'll also post a score and video.

Best regards,
Dave
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just a quick update:

I added a scoresheet to the OP. It's just a simple Excel file. There's already a SUM formula if you have access to it while playing, or you can print it out and bring it with you. If you do print, just make sure it's in Landscape.
 

Wright Shot

Sugartree Madness
Silver Member
................

Sorry to sound elementary, but can someone explain how to 'Play the Ghost' I would assume that playing the 7ball ghost would mean that I would break 7 balls, take BIH, then run the rack to win?? Thanks in advance for responses.
Chris
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Sorry to sound elementary, but can someone explain how to 'Play the Ghost' I would assume that playing the 7ball ghost would mean that I would break 7 balls, take BIH, then run the rack to win?? Thanks in advance for responses.
Chris

Yes, that's how you beat the ghost. Good luck to you. Johnnyt
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
First off I apologize if something like this already exists. I just thought of it tonight, and haven't actually tried it out yet. I do think it would be a fun practice game, and the ratings seem like they would be accurate, but I'm willing to make adjustments if needed.

Rules:
1. Rack all 15 balls. Any order, but the 1 must be at the top, and the 15 in the middle.
2. Break
3. Player can take as many ball in hands each rack until all balls have been made.
4. Player does NOT have to take ball in hand immediately after the break.
5. Player can use a ball in hand at any point during the rack.
6. Play a total of 10 racks.
7. Player's score is determined by the total # of ball in hands taken after all 10 racks are completed.
8. Slop counts.
9. Player must continue shooting even if the 15 ball drops early.

Summary of what is a foul/BIH penalty:
- CB scratch (1 foul)
- OB off table (1 foul, and ball gets spotted)
- Missed shot (1 foul)
- Missed shot and then scratch (1 foul)
- Lowest ball not hit first (2 fouls)
- Lowest ball not hit first and then scratch (2 fouls)
- Make a ball and scratch (1 foul). If a legal hit is made, but the ball that dropped wasn't the lowest ball, it gets spotted. If the lowest ball was made, it stays down.


0-20 Pro
21-30 A
31-40 B
41-60 C
61-70 D
70+ BANGER

Posted Scores:
Gerry Williams - 15 (Pro)
Joe Tucker - 16 (Pro) (Video)
Gerry Williams - 17 (Pro) (Video)
Joe Tucker - 19 (Pro)
Joe Tucker - 19 (Pro)
Joe Tucker - 20 (Pro) (Video)
scottjen26 - 20 (Pro) (Video)
Joe Tucker - 28 (A)
Rjmoncrief - 28 (A)
Gerry Williams - 29 (A) (Video)
iusedtoberich - 46 (C) (Video)
iusedtoberich - 47 (C) (Video)
iusedtoberich - 50 (C) (Video 1) (Video 2)
BeiberLvr - 50 (C)
BeiberLvr - 50 (C)
iusedtoberich - 51 (C)

Edit (1/20/2014) Added scoresheet.
My best score to date is a 41 (with a score of 10 on 1 of the 10 racks!). I'll post a video when I get a better 10-rack score. I've been practicing and recording a bunch of racks the last few weeks. For those interested, I put together a collection of 10 of my better racks for a total score of 6. Here it is: Dr. Dave practicing 15-ball rotation - collection of good racks - Feb-2014.

Regards,
Dave

PS:

I think your score ranges are a little high. I certainly don't think I am a C+ player. I think I'm at least a solid B, maybe even A-. Based on what I've seen so far, I would suggest the following:

0-20 Pro
21-35 A
36-50 B
51-65 C
66-80 D
81+ BANGER

What do you and others think about this revised scale?
 

Joe T

New member
I would like to ask permission to make this drill the official American Rotation practice drill. It is one of the best drills I've ever done and am actually missing being able to practice it! If we were to make it the official AR practice drill one question I have is the racking order? Should we keep it as is or make the AR racking order the norm? The AR racking order would make it a little tougher for sure as we rack the 1 ball in the middle. Personally I like having the 1 up front to play shape on but it would help people to get familiar with AR racking order?
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would like to ask permission to make this drill the official American Rotation practice drill. It is one of the best drills I've ever done and am actually missing being able to practice it! If we were to make it the official AR practice drill one question I have is the racking order? Should we keep it as is or make the AR racking order the norm? The AR racking order would make it a little tougher for sure as we rack the 1 ball in the middle. Personally I like having the 1 up front to play shape on but it would help people to get familiar with AR racking order?

Go for it, Joe.

I haven't done the full drill in a while, but I do try to warm up with 5 racks before playing 9 or 10 ball. What a difference it makes.

As for how to rack, I'll leave that up to you. For my drill, it really should be 1 at the top, 15 in the middle, and 2 and 3 on the corners. However, if it's being used for AR, then it's probably better to rack how you normally do in AR.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would like to ask permission to make this drill the official American Rotation practice drill. It is one of the best drills I've ever done and am actually missing being able to practice it! If we were to make it the official AR practice drill
That's a good idea Joe. I also like this drill very much. It is a great practice tool.

Based on what I've seen, I would suggest the following for score-based player ratings:

0-20 Pro
21-35 A
36-50 B
51-65 C
66-80 D
81+ BANGER

Although, it would be helpful to see more scores and videos from more people over a wider range of skill levels. It would also be helpful if these same people also have BU playing-ability Exam scores and ratings available. In other words, I hope more people on the AZB BU thread will try out the 15-ball-rotation drill and post their scores (and videos is possible) so we can see how the various ratings (BU, 10-ball, 15-ball) compare. We already have many BU and 10-ball scores/ratings posted on the AZB BU thread, so if 15-ball-rotation scores were added, we would have some good information.

Catch you later,
Dave
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
one question I have is the racking order? Should we keep it as is or make the AR racking order the norm? The AR racking order would make it a little tougher for sure as we rack the 1 ball in the middle. Personally I like having the 1 up front to play shape on but it would help people to get familiar with AR racking order?
As for how to rack, I'll leave that up to you. For my drill, it really should be 1 at the top, 15 in the middle, and 2 and 3 on the corners. However, if it's being used for AR, then it's probably better to rack how you normally do in AR.
Joe,

I also prefer the 1 at the top and the 2 and 3 at the corners, but I can see how you would want to standardize based on the AR rules.

Please let me know when you have this posted on the AR site so I can add a link on the 15-ball-rotation player-rating drill resource page.

Keep up the good work,
Dave
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My best score to date is a 41 (with a score of 10 on 1 of the 10 racks!). I'll post a video when I get a better 10-rack score. I've been practicing and recording a bunch of racks the last few weeks. For those interested, I put together a collection of 10 of my better racks for a total score of 6. Here it is: Dr. Dave practicing 15-ball rotation - collection of good racks - Feb-2014.

Regards,
Dave

PS:

I think your score ranges are a little high. I certainly don't think I am a C+ player. I think I'm at least a solid B, maybe even A-. Based on what I've seen so far, I would suggest the following:

0-20 Pro
21-35 A
36-50 B
51-65 C
66-80 D
81+ BANGER

What do you and others think about this revised scale?

I disagree on your proposed adjustment. You got a 41 on your best effort thus far, and put yourself at a possible A-? In contrast, I got a 46 on my best effort thus far, and I claim a C+ possibly B- on my best days rating. So who is right? I also believe, but can't remember for sure, that your table is an 8' table.

Now, in contrast to your BU exams, this 15 ball rotation drill is a randomized event. One cannot in my opinion get better at it, simply by doing it more (assuming they have been playing for years and have reached the point where gains are few and far between). So, you have reached A level in the BU exams, but in that set of shots, one "can" become better at that explicit exam simply by repeititon. The same is not true (IMO) of this drill.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I disagree on your proposed adjustment. You got a 41 on your best effort thus far, and put yourself at a possible A-? In contrast, I got a 46 on my best effort thus far, and I claim a C+ possibly B- on my best days rating. So who is right? I also believe, but can't remember for sure, that your table is an 8' table.

Now, in contrast to your BU exams, this 15 ball rotation drill is a randomized event. One cannot in my opinion get better at it, simply by doing it more (assuming they have been playing for years and have reached the point where gains are few and far between). So, you have reached A level in the BU exams, but in that set of shots, one "can" become better at that explicit exam simply by repeititon. The same is not true (IMO) of this drill.
You make some good points. People can improve their BU scores significantly with practice (but only up to a point, based on their ability, consistency, and focus). Although, it would still be interesting to see how somebody's best on the BU Exams compares with their best on the 10-ball-ghost rating drill and their best on the 15-ball-rotation rating drill, all on the same table. All three scores and ratings are listed on the AZB BU thread. That's why I am trying to encourage more people to try all three.

When I can find some time, I plan to try both the 10-ball and 15-ball drills enough times to see how my best on those compares to my previous well-practiced-BU-Exams best.

I hope you and others consider doing the same.

Regards,
Dave
 
Last edited:

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can't believe I've missed this thread since it started. Anyway, I've read it now and I've just had an attempt. Managed a 24. I thought it was tough going, but very fun. I got good one the 1 ball just once, and managed to run out from there. If I could nail the break I might improve. Anyone got any tips on the break for this?
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can't believe I've missed this thread since it started. Anyway, I've read it now and I've just had an attempt. Managed a 24. I thought it was tough going, but very fun. I got good one the 1 ball just once, and managed to run out from there. If I could nail the break I might improve. Anyone got any tips on the break for this?

I break from the side rail and hit the one ball square. I was able to get shape on the lower half of the table 4 times yesterday doing that.
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I break from the side rail and hit the one ball square. I was able to get shape on the lower half of the table 4 times yesterday doing that.
Cheers for that. I tried centre to begin with, then gradually moved out but I couldn't find the sweet spot for the table. I'll give the break from the side a shot.
 
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