$2,000.00 Reward For stolen Cognoscenti Cue.. Please Read!
- Thread starter Mr. Wilson
- Start date
Don't blame Eydie! 
Since it happened at her event, she did the right thing and thought she was helping one of the players. She can not be held responsible for anything that happened since then! I would have done the exact same thing. 
Since it happened at her event, she did the right thing and thought she was helping one of the players. She can not be held responsible for anything that happened since then! I would have done the exact same thing. 
I really don't know anyone as ignorant and ridiculous as you are. Its hard to believe that I'm even suprised anymore at the garbage that you post.pharaoh68 said:
"the community needs to know what to expect when they deal with Gina and Eydie."
Are you really serious? We know and have known for some time now what dealing with Gina gets you........NOTHING!
To assume Eydie had anything to do with this totally assinine. How do you function in life going around using this as your thought process.
Williebetmore said:
Willee,
Even though you are free to feel anyway you want, you cannot expect every cue sold to have an iron clad history. It's just not going to happen. Not every cue stolen, gets sold, so the outlet for thieves is not that large. Also you cannot say that cue collectors and cue dealers are the problem. Regular pool players like, you and probably 99% of the pool playing world are also subject to purchase a stolen cue. Let me ask you, how may players would pass up a Cog for $ 1000.00? NOT ONE, well maybe you, but believe me, it's been my experience that if a person thinks they can flip a cue for profit, they will. So it's not just collectors and dealers.
Now a few years ago a local guy here in NJ, had a Bushka stolen. He was beaten up very badly, a newspaper story was done, I called alot of the cuemakers that deal in these types of cues to be on the look out. The cue has never surfaced. My friend just had a Muecci, a case and a break cue stolen from a room in NJ. Do I expect them to come up for sale? No. IMHO the guy will probably sell the lot to someone for 150.00. Now is that guy responsible to do an in depth research on the cues? Sorry it just doesn't work like that. There is no Cuefax, all we can do is utilize the few outlets we have, internet, etc.. and try and warn people when cues are hijacked.
You cannot blame your stolen cue on dealers and collectors, you need to blame the thief's that do the deed.
JV
classiccues said:
JV,
How about if I assign some responsibility to both? I just don't believe that the vast majority of cues get stolen for personal use. I think they are stolen to sell for money. The people who purchase them promote such behavior from the thieves because they know they have an outlet for the merchandise. I DEFINITELY have NO sympathy for the purchaser of stolen goods; his behavior is suspect.
I don't hold the used cue dealers solely responsible, but they are certainly culpable if they buy stolen merchandise. They can't just plead ignorance.
It's easy to see how people get caught up in collecting - the cues are works of art. But I hope that MOST of us would pass on a bargain Cog, offered by some guy out of the back of his car.
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Williebetmore said:
You can assign it if you like, but its unjustified. It's a totally different scenario than a fence that buys 10 TV's still in boxes. Cues are cues, there is almost no way to find out if they are stolen, thats just the way it is. Just because a guys buys a stolen cue, you cannot say he is suspect. Things happen, thats like saying someone walking down the street and gets hit by a car, its his fault because he was there. Or a girl wearing slutty clothes is asking to be raped.
You can hope all you want to but its not the case. Everyone wants a bargain, thats that. If someone came here and offered a Tascarella for 1500 in the for sale section, I guarantee no one would give it a second thought and the guy's pm box would be full in a second.
Buying anything second hand puts you at some risk, but really who thinks about that. Do you go to garage sales thinking that jeez this toaster for 1.00 must be stolen? Thats just not a rational train of thought.
Now in the case of this cue, I know Rick personally and I know that he would never buy something he thought was suspect. I know Rick has gotten some good deals off ebay, should he think EVERY cue he buys is stolen?
JV
The only mistake Rick made was being a decent human being and giving it back. God forbid we try our hardest to be caring and understanding for someones loss and try to do the right thing.
I can't imagine why our society has gone downhill so much in the last few decades. Its rare to find good people that are willing to go the extra mile for a stranger in need.
With people like Gina in this world to make sure every decent hardworking bleeding heart guy gets screwed we'll surely go nowhere but down.
I can't imagine why our society has gone downhill so much in the last few decades. Its rare to find good people that are willing to go the extra mile for a stranger in need. With people like Gina in this world to make sure every decent hardworking bleeding heart guy gets screwed we'll surely go nowhere but down.
classiccues said:
JV,
I understand your point; but have to say again that possession of stolen merchandise is a bad thing in my opinion.
If this guy Rick was in possession of stolen merchandise, then I have no sympathy for him. Why do you say that he would "never buy something he thought was suspect", when he actually did buy something stolen???
Good intentions are NOT an excuse (the road to breakup's house is paved with these). It appears that Rick's magic "stolen cue radar" may be malfunctioning. What criteria do you think that he uses to tell when something is stolen? Call me skeptical; but I am doubtful that most crooks will tell you that they are selling you stolen merchandise.
P.S. - I agree that everyone want's a bargain. Far be it for me to stand in their way. They should realize that many people will think less of them should they purchase stolen merchandise. It is not my problem to figure out how they can get the bargains they desire. If they buy new cues, or cues that have a valid receipt they will probably avoid the issue. Greed is a wonderful thing though, I'm not holding my breath.
P.P.S. - to answer your last question, "Yes" he should consider all used cues stolen (unless seller has valid receipt of purchase). Tough answer.
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Williebetmore said:
Very interesting. Consider all used cues as stolen. Shouldn't we also include used bicycles, cars, golf clubs, bowling balls, guns, etc., etc.. Also, why stop at used? Shouldn't we also consider new stuff as possibly being stolen? Why are bargains only to be considered as stolen? If the guy asks for more money then that makes it a safe deal? Just what, may I ask, is a valid receipt? You can print up anything you want on a computer. Sounds to me that the only safe way to go through life and not take a chance of being looked down upon as purveyor of thievery is to take your pay check and buy nothing but boxes of corn flakes at Kroger's each week.
Dick
rhncue said:
Kroger?!?!?
Everyone knows they are totally out of line compared to Piggly Wiggly!!!
Are you insane???
rhncue said:
Dick,
It's easy...any item of value sold used (especially by someone you don't know)could be stolen. Is there really any debate about this point??? Doing the "right thing" is NOT always easy, and definitely would stand in the way of us satisfying our cue addictions. This Cog cue was NOT in any way similar to the $1 toaster at a garage sale.
If you know the seller's name and address, and could send the police to his house that certainly would help matters some. Do you guys (I'm assuming you and classiccue dealer both are involved in the used cue market) usually require identifying info on the cues you purchase or on the seller at least?
Did this Rick turn in to the police the fellow that sold him the cue (or is he just pleading ignorance, "gee officer, I don't know the fellow, I didn't know it was stolen")? It's not much of a defense in the state of Indiana.
P.S. - please do not think me impolite, I'm the victim of cue theft. The used cue dealer that bought my stolen cue used the "I didn't know it was stolen" defense; then said he would return it if I could show proof it was mine. This pawnbroker/cue dealer was found later that summer to have truckloads of stolen merchandise in his garage.
For me to consider "used cue dealers" in a higher regard than fences would require substantially more evidence of good faith on their part (but I DO believe they do not want to buy stolen cues for the most part - but wanting is not the same as doing). Used car dealers have a big leg up in the credibility department as they at least require titles for their used merchandise. The "right thing" is not always easy (I think I mentioned that before).
BVal said:
BVal,
Bitter and disillusioned? Yes.
Closed minded? I don't think so.
Why do you think the other cue dealer's are more ethical?? Just because they are really nice guys and profess to not want stolen merchandise does not mean they don't buy it. Wanting is not good enough. Show me evidence that they take steps to avoid it and I will IMMEDIATELY change my opinion of the ones that do. Nothing "closed-minded" here. I am easily swayed by evidence (but NOT by good intentions or pleadings of ignorance).
Nice guys can buy stolen stuff just as easily as slime-balls.
So until you see evidence that they do you automatically "assume" that they are buying or selling you stolen goods. LMFAO. That is the greatest thing I have heard all day. I understand your opinion and I am not trying to argue with you at all. You have every right to think the way you do. I just think differently. Have a great dayWilliebetmore said:
BVal
BVal said:
BV,
Actually, I don't think you do understand what I've been saying. I have never said I "assume they are all buying or selling stolen goods." I said that people that buy and sell used cues MAY be buying stolen stuff (hard to disagree with this unless they step forward with some info); and that this contributes to the the problem of cue theft. That is different than your interpretation of my remarks. I do have a low opinion of anyone not taking steps to avoid buying stolen stuff; that statement includes everyone that it includes.
I have no idea what steps they take to prevent acquiring stolen merchandise, the few involved in this thread have not responded to my question on this topic. I will say that many collectors are enthusiastic in their pursuit of acquisitions, and I in no way expect this discussion will influence people in their choices. Cheap, stolen stuff is always attractive to a certain element; and the pool world is no different than the rest of the world. Rationalization is the easy part; the "right thing" is the hard part.
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Seems straight forward:
If anyone is concerned that there is even a remote possibility that a cue on the secondary market could be hot, don't buy it.
Until such a time as cues are "titled" or traced from one owner to the next ala carfax, there is a lingering chance that unless you know all the details of any cue, new or used, it could have been stolen.
Caveat emptor.........
If anyone is concerned that there is even a remote possibility that a cue on the secondary market could be hot, don't buy it.
Until such a time as cues are "titled" or traced from one owner to the next ala carfax, there is a lingering chance that unless you know all the details of any cue, new or used, it could have been stolen.
Caveat emptor.........
Cue dealers are a reputable lot and not at all like the bloke in this video.... imo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uVvcD4Czx4Y
Doug
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uVvcD4Czx4Y
Doug
Mr. Wilson said:
Mr. W.,
At least someone gets it. I was starting to think I was alone.
It is up to each individual to decide the issue - your conscience is your guide. It sounds like Rick was trying to do the "right thing" by returning the cue; but did the "wrong thing" by purchasing it in the first place. JMO.