2 shot roll out.

[stevelomako]

That's what I heard, too. The new rules allowed the weaker players to have a chance to win.

According to my boyfriend who was around in those days when the rules of 9-ball changed, he said the East Coast players couldn't beat the West Coast players, and so they changed the rules to give the East Coast players a chance to win a little bone every now and then.

JAM

Keith knows better than that....this will jog his memory.

The "Texas Express 9-ball Tour" started and they started using the phoney one-foul rule among others and shorter races to get as many players as they could. The weaker players really did have a better chance this way. They use to get good size fields wherever they were. What better advertisment than guys beating good players even if they didn't cash, at least they beat a "pro".

The tour got bigger and bigger and then people just started calling the rules "Texas Express" and they just spread everywhere.


The cream does always rise to the top so there was always going to be a few good players at the top but more good players would get beat in tournaments this way by lessor players than with push-out. How many people do you think are out there can tell people "I could have been a pro........I beat so and so before in a tournament!"?


P.S.
You guys are NOT going to DCC are you? I know you're just teasing all the "Earthquake" fans.

 

[frankwhite]

That's what I heard, too. The new rules allowed the weaker players to have a chance to win.

According to my boyfriend who was around in those days when the rules of 9-ball changed, he said the East Coast players couldn't beat the West Coast players, and so they changed the rules to give the East Coast players a chance to win a little bone every now and then.

JAM

Hey! Hey! Hey! Watch out........................lol lol

 

[gulfportdoc]

ok, but say you play safe on someone, why wouldnt they just roll out and not leave you a shot??? then you play safe again and they do it again... i guess im not understanding the rules here.

Hound, as I recall, you couldn't roll out after someone just rolled out on you; anymore than you can push after someone shoots a push after the break in BIH.

In other words, If you roll out on me, I can either shoot to make the ball or not, as long as it's a legal shot (something has to hit a rail after the CB contacts an OB).

The emphasis was on shot-making and runouts. I liked the rules because you didn't have to suffer with an unintentional hook. You could just roll out. Also you didn't have any 3-foul specialists to put up with!

Doc

 

[Black-Balled]

Hound, as I recall, you couldn't roll out after someone just rolled out on you; anymore than you can push after someone shoots a push after the break in BIH.

In other words, If you roll out on me, I can either shoot to make the ball or not, as long as it's a legal shot (something has to hit a rail after the CB contacts an OB).

The emphasis was on shot-making and runouts. I liked the rules because you didn't have to suffer with an unintentional hook. You could just roll out. Also you didn't have any 3-foul specialists to put up with!

Doc

But, if players A and B are in a game, it could go:
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
(rinse/ repeat)

Thoughts as to why the pushout never made it into any other game?

 

[stevelomako]

But, if players A and B are in a game, it could go:
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
(rinse/ repeat)

Thoughts as to why the pushout never made it into any other game?

Don't know but lets start; how about we make these new rules,

snooker........push-out and it'll cost you 4 to 7 points
14.1.............push-out and it'll cost you a point
one-pocket....push-out and it'll cost you a ball


Now before anyone starts, with 9-ball you might not lose a point or a ball but if the other player takes the shot you might lose the game so there is risk invovled.

I've seen the same scenario with safes in one foul also (rinse / repeat).

 

[wincardona]

figure it out

Hey! You might be on to something here.

A more demanding game that carries much more pressure and excitement.

Hmmmm...we need to take One pocket and make it one foul-ball in hand anywhere on the table also. It would speed it up for TV just like one-foul 9-ball did. Oops sorry, it didn't.



One-foul 9-ball sucks...I know it goes both ways but I would prefer NOT to shit hook somebody to thunderous applause or take ball in hand and bump a ball 2 inches and hook a guy and people think its a great shot or make a really really tough shot on the 7, 8 or 9 and scratch and the guy doesn't even have to make a spot shot, just has to get up and push it in with his thing. Sweet!

So you want to take the intentional scratch out of one pocket,? that's interesting. And one foul ball in hand 9 ball diminished the interest in 9 ball on TV.I forgot push out 9 ball on TV was a huge success, right? And then finally you think there is more skill playing roll out then one foul. Well it's not even close. Playing one foul you have to develope skills in position play,kicking,masse shots,safety play, and controlling the cue ball on the break.Roll out is a grinding game,resulting in closer matches,sorta leveling the playing field for the weaker player. You may never get to shoot an easy shot playing an upper echelon player,one foul,but roll out you will get many more turns.

Try playing an upper echelon player one foul 9 ball, then play him roll out 9 ball and judge for yourself which rules favor you,the weaker player.

 

[stevelomako]

So you want to take the intentional scratch out of one pocket,? that's interesting. And one foul ball in hand 9 ball diminished the interest in 9 ball on TV.I forgot push out 9 ball on TV was a huge success, right? And then finally you think there is more skill playing roll out then one foul. Well it's not even close. Playing one foul you have to develope skills in position play,kicking,masse shots,safety play, and controlling the cue ball on the break.Roll out is a grinding game,resulting in closer matches,sorta leveling the playing field for the weaker player. You may never get to shoot an easy shot playing an upper echelon player,one foul,but roll out you will get many more turns.

Try playing an upper echelon player one foul 9 ball, then play him roll out 9 ball and judge for yourself which rules favor you,the weaker player.

Are you REALLY serious??

The only thing you might not do in 2 foul compared to 1 foul is kick at a ball. Everything you said applies the same, you act like 2 foul was like one pocket but its OK that you have 3-4 hour matches at the US OPEN and they're only races to 11!!!

When you did play 2 foul and a guy scratched on the 8, how many times were YOU scared to shoot the spot shot? I know a lot of guys would play safe with it nowadays cause they did back then too.



SO.....if I was to play you.....the 'tougher' game as you say (1 foul) 20 ahead....I'd have no chance.

THEN.....if I pick a player and you play him the 'easier game which favors the weaker player' (2 Foul) you'll have a chance???


You my friend are on!!!!!!!

LOL, you better beat me, cause you AINT beatin who I pick. LOL



P.S. you have a free dinner coming if you can show me where I mentioned....'interest'.....in pool on TV diminished with 1 foul. Don't know where you keep getting that from???? You is old now tho, so's I kin kinda unerstan yer memry slippin.

 

[klockdoc]

Playing one foul you have to develope skills in position play,kicking,masse shots,safety play, and controlling the cue ball on the break.

I think you developed skills in position play in 2 shot also. Kicking, masse? hmm--maybe not as much as one foul. Safety play? kind of a wash. In 2 shot you played safes against the opponent to put the object ball in an easy position to be made, but hooked the player. His push meant nothing because the ball could be made from anywhere.

Controlling the cue ball on the break? I did that in 2 shot as well as one foul! I think I understand you thought, but, I don't agree with it.

I think that playing 2 shot roll-out you had to develope skills in different areas. You had to develope more of those in shot making, which made you a better player. One foul, you have a difficult shot, you play safe. Better stategy wise, but not a better shooter. (did improve your kicking ability though and other areas as you stated)

Roll out is a grinding game,resulting in closer matches,sorta leveling the playing field for the weaker player.

Why would the weaker player have an advantage against a higher eschelon player? The better player can make more difficult shots or banks. This should give him the better advantage to win the match. The better player isn't going to roll out to easy shots.

You may never get to shoot an easy shot playing an upper echelon player,one foul,but roll out you will get many more turns.

Get you more turns, but, if you can't make the shots, it doesn't do you any good. Eventually, the better player will win. Either rules. (In the long run)

Try playing an upper echelon player one foul 9 ball, then play him roll out 9 ball and judge for yourself which rules favor you,the weaker player.

You might shoot more shots, but, you aren't going to win anymore in either game.

 

[JAM]

Keith knows better than that....this will jog his memory.

The "Texas Express 9-ball Tour" started and they started using the phoney one-foul rule among others and shorter races to get as many players as they could. The weaker players really did have a better chance this way. They use to get good size fields wherever they were. What better advertisment than guys beating good players even if they didn't cash, at least they beat a "pro".

The tour got bigger and bigger and then people just started calling the rules "Texas Express" and they just spread everywhere.


The cream does always rise to the top so there was always going to be a few good players at the top but more good players would get beat in tournaments this way by lessor players than with push-out. How many people do you think are out there can tell people "I could have been a pro........I beat so and so before in a tournament!"?


P.S.
You guys are NOT going to DCC are you? I know you're just teasing all the "Earthquake" fans.

Louisville is definitely on the radar screen for January 2008. I plan on getting plenty of sleep beforehand.

I am enjoying the back-and-forth on this thread. It is very interesting to read the insights of others. Keep it going!

Maybe at DCC, we can go upstairs and have a mini tournament using the two-shot/push-out rules. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make happen since they have mutliple mini tournaments non-stop. Anyway, it's something to think about! Those in attendance can then see how the rules actually work!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Hey! Hey! Hey! Watch out........................lol lol

LOL! The wonderful world according to Keith, especially when he starts talking about the longshoremen, salamanders, and lobsters!

Oh, yeah, here's my favorite. When Keith's benched and gettnig drilled by a player who catches a gear, he always comes up with this line: "Ain't this a nice deal. Feed the monkey and watch him...." Well, you know the rest!

JAM

 

[Black-Balled]

I've seen the same scenario with safes in one foul also (rinse / repeat).

No you haven't- at least not in a game that follwed the rules...

You may have seen safe/ safe/ safe/ safe/ safe though, but that was likely 1Hole

 

[stevelomako]

No you haven't- at least not in a game that follwed the rules...

You may have seen safe/ safe/ safe/ safe/ safe though, but that was likely 1Hole

Re-read my quote you posted.


I said "I've seen the same scenario with...SAFES...in one-foul also (rinse / repeat)"

I didn't say...SAFES and PUSH-OUT...in 1 foul.



I've seen plenty of safe/ safe/ safe/ safe/ safe/ safe/ safe in..... one foul 9-BALL.......and it was by the rules.

 

[ironman]

Keith knows better than that....this will jog his memory.

The "Texas Express 9-ball Tour" started and they started using the phoney one-foul rule among others and shorter races to get as many players as they could. The weaker players really did have a better chance this way. They use to get good size fields wherever they were. What better advertisment than guys beating good players even if they didn't cash, at least they beat a "pro".

The tour got bigger and bigger and then people just started calling the rules "Texas Express" and they just spread everywhere.


The cream does always rise to the top so there was always going to be a few good players at the top but more good players would get beat in tournaments this way by lessor players than with push-out. How many people do you think are out there can tell people "I could have been a pro........I beat so and so before in a tournament!"?


P.S.
You guys are NOT going to DCC are you? I know you're just teasing all the "Earthquake" fans.

The player of the year on e Texas Express Tours final year was Javier Franco of Houston. Hardly a world beater by any means of the imagination.

 

[Robertduke]

Is push out same as Honest Effort..?

 

[JAM]

Is push out same as Honest Effort..?

No, it's the opposite. Push out means you deliberately place the cueball somewhere on the table, not trying to pocket the ball.

Honest effort means you genuinely tried to make a shot.

In my neck of the woods, if you didn't play honest effort on the bar table, you might not get out of the bar alive.

JAM

 

[stevelomako]

The player of the year on e Texas Express Tours final year was Javier Franco of Houston. Hardly a world beater by any means of the imagination.

BINGO!

There we go, kinda looks good for my arguement doesn't it Lewis?

 

[wincardona]

BINGO!

There we go, kinda looks good for my arguement doesn't it Lewis?

I don't know anything about the field in terms of strength,but Franco probably is one of the best players in that area. My case is based on upper echelon players,not intermediate players.If an upper echelon player plays an intermediate player both ways ,he will beat him much easier playing one foul. I have a lot of experience playing both ways. Both when I was an upper echelon player playing weaker players,and now being an intermediate player playing upper echelon players.
You need to develope more skills playing one foul to compete at a top level. Also giving weight playing roll out is much harder than giving weight playing one foul for the best players.Playing one foul the great players totally controll the game, period.
If anyone disagrees with any of the things I said, it's common knowledge I will gamble on my opinion.

 

[Pushout]

But, if players A and B are in a game, it could go:
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
(rinse/ repeat)

OK, I gotta ask, have you ever seen this kind of thing, or is it hypothetical?? You said in another post you were stretching it a bit, or words to that effect. I've never seen it go on like that, myself, nor have I ever played a match that went on like that. I have seen it go several innings in one foul, though. In some parts of the country, any two fouls in a row by the same player awarded bih to the incoming player. Where I played, it was any two fouls. If you push, I play safe and miss the "on" ball or scratch, you got bih.

 

[wincardona]

another pompous genious

Are you REALLY serious??

The only thing you might not do in 2 foul compared to 1 foul is kick at a ball. Everything you said applies the same, you act like 2 foul was like one pocket but its OK that you have 3-4 hour matches at the US OPEN and they're only races to 11!!!

When you did play 2 foul and a guy scratched on the 8, how many times were YOU scared to shoot the spot shot? I know a lot of guys would play safe with it nowadays cause they did back then too.



SO.....if I was to play you.....the 'tougher' game as you say (1 foul) 20 ahead....I'd have no chance.

THEN.....if I pick a player and you play him the 'easier game which favors the weaker player' (2 Foul) you'll have a chance???


You my friend are on!!!!!!!

LOL, you better beat me, cause you AINT beatin who I pick. LOL



P.S. you have a free dinner coming if you can show me where I mentioned....'interest'.....in pool on TV diminished with 1 foul. Don't know where you keep getting that from???? You is old now tho, so's I kin kinda unerstan yer memry slippin.

Ok we bust hustlers, look on post 56 about your one foul comment in regard to TV. Secondly insulting me doesn't make you right ,but it does tell me a little about you as a person. And whats this about playing safe on a spot shot? where were you playing ?at the YMCA. But your right about me being old,but not too old not to beat you, we bust hustlers. When you see me walk up to me and we can match up,if you ain't too scared of an old man.

 

[ledrums]

What does everybody think of safeties in 8 ball? Good thing or bad thing?