2 shot roll out.

Actionhound

Actionhound

Banned
i have only been playing for about 5 or 6 years, and never had the pleasure of playing this way, could someone please explain to me the difference in 2 shot roll out, and the way 9 ball is played today??? obviously you didnt get ball in hand anywhere on the table after a foul, but i have heard several poeple say thats what ruined 9 ball, and im interested in the differences.

thanks in advance.
 
i'd never heard of it until the last few years, keith talked about it a few times and i think jay or someone else explained it, but i wonder since it gave players like keith such an edge why it disappeared completely? are there any tourneys/leagues that use the old rules today?
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Actionhound said:
i have only been playing for about 5 or 6 years, and never had the pleasure of playing this way, could someone please explain to me the difference in 2 shot roll out, and the way 9 ball is played today??? obviously you didnt get ball in hand anywhere on the table after a foul, but i have heard several poeple say thats what ruined 9 ball, and im interested in the differences.

thanks in advance.
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If you broke and scratched, all balls spotted and the incoming player had the option of shooting or passing with the cue ball behind the head string. If he fouled agin, you had ball in hand.
If you hooked yourself in the course of the game, you called,Push and he had the option. If he passed it to you and you scratched/fouled, he would recieve ball in hand.
Anytime during the game if there was a ball made and a scratch, the ball spotted and the cue balll was behind the line, of course with the option of shooting or passing.
Many games in those days were won or lost with spot shots.
There was actually some stategy in the game back then instead of all the kicken and prayen.
 
Johnson said:
i'd never heard of it until the last few years, keith talked about it a few times and i think jay or someone else explained it, but i wonder since it gave players like keith such an edge why it disappeared completely? are there any tourneys/leagues that use the old rules today?
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Two shot is gone. I haven'tt seen it used in years
Robin Addair of Corpus Christi Texas takes credit for inventing the Texas Express Rules.
 
The only time I have seen the two-shot/roll-out rules in recent times was about four years ago at the Trump Marina 10-Ball Challenge in Atlantic City, promoted by Gene Hooker and his son-in-law. The Canadian Danny Hewitt came in first place, and Jim Rempe came out of retirement to play in this event and ended up in second place.

However, it was modified in that if you had a shot that you were unsure of, you could roll out. If you missed it, your opponent got ball in hand.

The strong part about playing two-shot/roll-out, you didn't necessarily roll out to make the shot. As Ironman said, there was a strategy involved. Sometimes you could roll out and leave your opponent a shot that he couldn't make, but that you thought you could make.

For example, if you leave him a real stiff cut shot that you know you could spin in and you know he can't, you could leave it in such a way that if you did miss it, you'd leave a safety, and he might not even be able to come close to attempting a legal shot. Those type of shots would break people down, according to my source! :D

JAM
 
thanks for the reply Jam, but i have one question for Keith, err, i mean your source, wouldnt the 2 shot roll out take the safety game completely out??? i really wish i would have been around back then and would like to learn the rules of this 2 shot roll out, because i had someone (an older gentleman) woof at me last night but said we had to play that way.
 
Actionhound said:
thanks for the reply Jam, but i have one question for Keith, err, i mean your source, wouldnt the 2 shot roll out take the safety game completely out??? i really wish i would have been around back then and would like to learn the rules of this 2 shot roll out, because i had someone (an older gentleman) woof at me last night but said we had to play that way.
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No, the 2-shot/roll-out rules would actually, according to my source, increase the safety play.

As an example, there's a lot of times that you could roll out to try to play a better safety than maybe a safety that was left for you, hopefully to enable you to get a better shot or, in the alternative, leave the guy where he might make a mistake. The whole purpose is to try to outsmart your opponent, hoping he'll make a mistake, enabling you to get to the table with a good shot that you can make.

JAM
 
ok, but say you play safe on someone, why wouldnt they just roll out and not leave you a shot??? then you play safe again and they do it again... i guess im not understanding the rules here.
 
Actionhound said:
ok, but say you play safe on someone, why wouldnt they just roll out and not leave you a shot??? then you play safe again and they do it again... i guess im not understanding the rules here.
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Edit: didn't read the question right and wound up sounding like a jackass :D :D
 
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Actionhound said:
ok, but say you play safe on someone, why wouldnt they just roll out and not leave you a shot??? then you play safe again and they do it again... i guess im not understanding the rules here.
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That is the way it works. If you leave a guy a safety shot, he can roll out and try to leave you a safety shot. Eventually, somebody is going to make a mistake. It's going to be either you or him/her.

I've seen safety battles like that before. It's kind funny to watch!

The better player who's got more shots in his/her arsenal will eventually come out on top. In other words, the better player (shot-maker) might be able to get out of a trap easier than a player who doesn't have as many shots in his/her arsenal.

JAM
 
bigskyjake said:
they couldn't do it again, the second time in a row would be ball in hand for you
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I think you mistook...
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed

Sounds like fun!:eek:
 
Black-Balled said:
I think you mistook...
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed
A played safe
B pushed
A takes shot option/ plays safe
B pushed

Sounds like fun!:eek:
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thats exactly what i was talking about.
 
JAM said:
That is the way it works. If you leave a guy a safety shot, he can roll out and try to leave you a safety shot. Eventually, somebody is going to make a mistake. It's going to be either you or him/her.

I've seen safety battles like that before. It's kind funny to watch!

The better player who's got more shots in his/her arsenal will eventually come out on top. In other words, the better player (shot-maker) might be able to get out of a trap easier than a player who doesn't have as many shots in his/her arsenal.

JAM
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You are very right, as it could be fnny to watch. I've seen matches where both were playing so badly and just kept pshing out and pushing out trying to force errors and neither could get out or make the big shot. It could also be painful to watch at times to.
Keithwas so brutal because he would push to what seemed so difficult and step up and slice it in.
Another who was real tough in the 2-shot days was Richie Ambrose. He was one hell of a shot maker. After the introduction of Texas Express, Richie was to become just another pool player.
 
Thanks for the info JAM and ironman. I've always wondered about this subject.

When exactly did Texas Express replace two-shot/roll-out (in US tournament play) with respect to the advent of the Filipino Invasion?

It seems as if Texas Express has already been around when Parica and Reyes arrived, but not nearly long enough for the Americans to master the art of kicking and safety play. It has been said that the Filipinos "revolutionized" the way the game was played due to their kicking abilities and safety play, since they have honed and mastered those skills by playing rotation for years back in PI.

It appears that changing the rules to Texas Express had only greatly benefitted Parica, Reyes, and the first wave of Filipinos when they first arrived on US soil.

Interesting to think whether the first Filipinos would have been any less successful if they kept the two-shot/roll-out rule. Likewise, if they would have been any less successful if Americans have been playing Texas Express rules for generations before the Invasion.
 
When I started playing, it was roll-out, but TX Exp. was just beginning to spread...I can see the +/- of each, but!

2shot is the only game where you can roll the CB elsewhere if you don't like the shot. Seems kinda silly to me.
 
Black-Balled said:
When I started playing, it was roll-out, but TX Exp. was just beginning to spread...I can see the +/- of each, but!

2shot is the only game where you can roll the CB elsewhere if you don't like the shot. Seems kinda silly to me.
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It may seem silly to many who never experienced it, but it greatly reduced the luck factor. The game was much cleaner then.
 
ironman said:
It may seem silly to many who never experienced it, but it greatly reduced the luck factor. The game was much cleaner then.
Click to expand...


If today's players played two shot foul long enough to understand it they would agree that it INCREASED the chances of the better players winning, esp. short or intermediate sessions:) . It took quite some time before I could play one shot/texas express without puking.:(
 
ironman said:
It may seem silly to many who never experienced it, but it greatly reduced the luck factor. The game was much cleaner then.
Click to expand...

I see and experienced the lameness of an opponent failing to execute a shot, lucking a safe and getting rewarded with BIH for his doodie...and I also suffered as a result of same!

How do you justify the ability to roll the ball to a different place from where it was presented to you though? I just don't get it...

Why did the pushout never find it's way to other pool games?(I think I know!:rolleyes: ;) )
 
We most likely will never see a two-shot/roll-out tournament again.

The game of 9-ball seems to be what is played at most professional venues today, though in recent times, there's a little sprinkling of 10-ball and 8-ball and one-hole.

Roll back 50 years ago, it was all about straight pool. 14.1 is making a comeback, but I don't see it ever being as popular as it was "back in the day."

Pool is such a multi-faceted sport, with so many games. Even the rules for 8-ball, a game I'm familiar with, has so many varieties, i.e., 8-ball neutral, must hit the 8 on the last shot, call pocket, call shot, 8 on the break wins, 8 on the break loses, et cetera, et cetera.

Pool, in fact, is so diverse that it may be why some of the mainstream American public tends to just skip over it.

However, I still believe if pool, at least here in the States, could get a name-brand recognition by way of a celebrity, it would give it a boost. Time will tell.... :)

JAM
 
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