3-foul & sportsmanship?

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sashax415

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**warning...long, but interesting, story coming**

While I know that most players have good ettiquette (or at least try to), I also know that there are always a couple of bad apples. What I still havent figured out, is how to react when a one of these bad apples is chucked at your head from behind you. Let me explain...

About a month ago, my boyfriend - lets call him V, a 70 speed - was playing in a USPPA tournament and for his first match he was put up against an aquaintance of ours from our APA days - lets call him D, a 60 speed. It was an even race to 5 and D quickly got up 4-1.

V started playing some heavy defense, and D would literally take a good 5 minutes per kick :rolleyes: . Well, vic ended up 3-fouling him to bring it to 4-2. After the rack, D sarcastically said, "what? Am I that intimidating?" V cooly said, "yeah, you are."

During the next rack, the spread was not looking pretty so V again played safe and D fouled (1). V proceeded to play safe and had the cue ball all but in jail (a guaranteed 2nd foul). At this point D got up and angrily said, "what?! you don't want to play?! are you afraid to shoot?! "
V simply replied, "why dont YOU shoot?"

Rather than shoot, D walked off, saying "I'm not shooting that, I'm taking a break."
V said "okay, I'm having a cigarette then" When we came back inside, D was sitting down not even looking at the table, when he finally went back up to the table, he spent another 3-4 minutes analyzing his shot. He fouled (2).

By now, there were a decent amount of spectators, or rather, witnesses, watching the match. D then walked straight to the scorekeeper, who happened to be a good friend of ours and said "How the HELL did this guy get to be a 70 speed?! He can't even shoot?! He shoots like a 30!" People just chuckled.

To make a long story short, V ended up 3 fouling him that game to make it 4-3, then 3 fouled him once again to make it 4-4. Case game, he ran out. Throughout the match D was *****ing and moaning. After the match V went to shake his hand and said "good game, D". D wouldn't shake his hand. He was shaking his head and packing up his cues saying "you know, if you want to be a 70 speed, why don't you learn to shoot?!" V, who had maintained his cool and had been completely polite up to this point said back "why dont you learn to kick?" ;)

V said, " You know, D, I'm really disappointed... I always thought you were a nice guy..." D cut in, snapping, "I thought YOU were a nice guy..." :confused: (apparently it thought it was really mean of V to play safe)

anyways, thats the bulk of the story... I could write out all of D's rants that night, but I think we all get the gist. here's what I don't get... Why be sooo angry at your opponent for playing safe? And why show your frustration like that? At first V was just playing safe to get back in the game, but once he saw what a pr*ck D was being, he intentionally tried to 3 foul him again and again:D .

While I understand that 3 foul can be a sucky way to lose, I don't think talking sh*t to your opponent will make him lighten up on you at all. Also, I dont get why D would complain about V being rated too high. If he wanted V to be a 30 speed, I'm sure V would have gladly obliged and beat him with a spot.

Word about the match spread like wildfire and people were laughing about it for days.

What are everyones thoughts on the 3-foul rule? Do you think D had the right to get that worked up over it? I think that no matter what happens on the table, each match should end with a handshake, wholehearted or not.
 
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Hey, three foul is part of the game. Sounds like "D's"s game isn't up to snuff, at least as far as getting out of safeties is concerned.

Flex
 
In most cases, it is more difficult to 3 foul an opponent than to run out. Its part of the game. Learn to kick and that wont be an issue...
 
I'm not sure what your playing 8 - 9 ball.. either way I suppose it doesn't really matter. In my humble opinion it's alot harder to 3 foul a guy, then it is to beat him heads up.. If someone was doing that to me (successfully) I sure wouldn't be critisizing his speed.. I'd be saying he's under ranked! :D

Ultimately "D" is mad that "V" made him his *****.. LOL I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Point in fact if he asked me to learn how to shoot, I'd tell him to try n 3 foul me and see how far he gets.

DJ <--- quickly becoming the kick masta
 
sashax415 said:
... What are everyones thoughts on the 3-foul rule? Do you think D had the right to get that worked up over it? I think that no matter what happens on the table, each match should end with a handshake, wholehearted or not.
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I've always thought of it as a tool for good players to use against bad players. I think Philippino Gene was playing one match where he was giving up 5-2 and he won either four of five games on three fouls. (Gene Ventura is a local player who plays in the USPPA.)
 
i recently was in Reno for the Bar table championships. the three foul rule was used to win many a game. It is a part of the game thats not so glamorus as a run-out, but still a part of the game.when one player finds the other players weakness such as maybe he not good at kicks or long shots for him not to use that knowledge is foolish on his part. we all play to win and as long as you use the rules a win is a win run-out or not.i think a sore loser is just that no matter how he gets beats.and i agree that a game should end in a hand shake, its a sportsmanship thing that should be a rule.
 
It's pretty hard to three foul even an average player. If he was able to three foul him three games in a row, that other guy REALLY needs to work on his kicking :D
 
There are many ways to win at nine-ball. The only ones who think it's unsportsmanlike to win with relentless defense are the ones that haven't learned to win with relentless defense.

Against a good player, it may take more skill to produce a three-foul win that to run out.

We've all been on the receiving end at some point, where somebody denied us realistic chances to run out over and over. At nine ball, denying your opponent opportunities, whether it's by running out or by playing solid safeties, is what it's all about!
 
It was a nine-ball tournament...
haha I completely agree... while I previously had regarded D as a pretty strong and smart player, his weakness on the table really showed his true colors. I do have to admit though, the kicks were HARD kicks -- 2&3 rails, over balls, around clusters, they were locked up -- so while I can't exactly say he couldn't kick for sh*t, he was still acting like a little B;)
 
I have a video of Tony Ellin 3-fouling Efren Reyes. Tony laid down some great safes in a really tied up rack, and in the last shot Efren tried this crazy masse and missed the ball by a centimeter.
 
3 Foul Rule is part of the game. Learn to kick or learn to lose.

I think the real issue is this guy leaving Vic hanging at the handshake. That kind of horsecrap is ridiculous.

Bar owners don't want or need this kind of behavior. All it does is lead to fights. Sometimes I wonder why people play pool if all it does is make them mad.:confused:
 
3 fouls your out

i remember when my Best friend came to town last year we were playing our usual about 8 hours of pool.when he announced i was on 2 fouls i said ok no problem.i knew i was.well the next shot i fouled he said that's 3 fouls that's game.i said WTF :) .then he proceeded to tell me about the 3 foul rule.i had never played anyone that played safe so good .so with that said i made 3 fouls and LOST.i just couln't believe it .he said we won't play it.i said if it's part of the game then we will play it.i know he is the no bullshit type of person so if he says it was a rule so be it .BUT it just shocked me so much...anyone else i probably would not have believed...:)
 
TX Poolnut said:
3 Foul Rule is part of the game. Learn to kick or learn to lose.

I think the real issue is this guy leaving Vic hanging at the handshake. That kind of horsecrap is ridiculous.

Bar owners don't want or need this kind of behavior. All it does is lead to fights. Sometimes I wonder why people play pool if all it does is make them mad.:confused:
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I was watching Billy Palmer/Efren Reyes 1 pocket match, they had a 3 foul rule on that as well. I had never heard of it in 1h, but it came into play a couple of times, though nobody lost a game on it, it forced them to try some less conservative shots.

Cheers,
RC
 
TX Poolnut said:
3 Foul Rule is part of the game. Learn to kick or learn to lose.

I think the real issue is this guy leaving Vic hanging at the handshake. That kind of horsecrap is ridiculous.

Bar owners don't want or need this kind of behavior. All it does is lead to fights. Sometimes I wonder why people play pool if all it does is make them mad.:confused:
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This is what I'm talking about!! I couldnt agree more... haha how did you know "V" = Vic? ;)
 
sashax415 said:
This is what I'm talking about!! I couldnt agree more... haha how did you know "V" = Vic? ;)
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You slipped up and used his whole name once in your post :)

Cheers,
RC
 
shinobi said:
It's pretty hard to three foul even an average player. If he was able to three foul him three games in a row, that other guy REALLY needs to work on his kicking :D
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Believe me you just have not encountered the right player yet.:D
 
Sorry but I see this differently than most

"At first V was just playing safe to get back in the game, but once he saw what a pr*ck D was being, he intentionally tried to 3 foul him again and again:D ."

Your boyfriend saw that three fouling spun up somebody so he went to great efforts to do it repeatedly instead of running out, twisting his opponent as tightly as he could. Then he thought his opponent should shake his hand? If I had just done that to somebody I wouldn't get within ten feet of them.

Nothing illegal about it but it was sharking and your boyfriend was foolish if he thought he could keep somebody spun up for three or four games and then them be polite immediately afterwards. You can't win by playing on somebody's emotions and then expect them not to be emotional.

It isn't what I consider sporting to win by playing on somebody else's emotions instead of skill so I would say that there were two people in the match that showed less than impressive sportsmanship.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
"At first V was just playing safe to get back in the game, but once he saw what a pr*ck D was being, he intentionally tried to 3 foul him again and again:D ."

Your boyfriend saw that three fouling spun up somebody so he went to great efforts to do it repeatedly instead of running out, twisting his opponent as tightly as he could. Then he thought his opponent should shake his hand? If I had just done that to somebody I wouldn't get within ten feet of them.

Nothing illegal about it but it was sharking and your boyfriend was foolish if he thought he could keep somebody spun up for three or four games and then them be polite immediately afterwards. You can't win by playing on somebody's emotions and then expect them not to be emotional.

It isn't what I consider sporting to win by playing on somebody else's emotions instead of skill so I would say that there were two people in the match that showed less than impressive sportsmanship.

Hu
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Hey, if V had played D a fast and loose game he would have lost, plain and simple. Going for multiple 3 fouls was his only option, as far as I can tell. If D got all bent out of shape over that, tough cookies. Did D just expect V to lay down or what? It's too bad that D can't control his emotions, at least externally, for he very likely made sure that V would emerge victorious. Poor sportsmanship on V's part? Not a chance. Just a smart player. Or do you think he should have wimped out?

Flex
 
cuetechasaurus said:
I have a video of Tony Ellin 3-fouling Efren Reyes. Tony laid down some great safes in a really tied up rack, and in the last shot Efren tried this crazy masse and missed the ball by a centimeter.
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I believe that was Shannon Daulton against Efren at the US Open.
 
ShootingArts said:
"At first V was just playing safe to get back in the game, but once he saw what a pr*ck D was being, he intentionally tried to 3 foul him again and again:D ."

Your boyfriend saw that three fouling spun up somebody so he went to great efforts to do it repeatedly instead of running out, twisting his opponent as tightly as he could. Then he thought his opponent should shake his hand? If I had just done that to somebody I wouldn't get within ten feet of them.

Nothing illegal about it but it was sharking and your boyfriend was foolish if he thought he could keep somebody spun up for three or four games and then them be polite immediately afterwards. You can't win by playing on somebody's emotions and then expect them not to be emotional.

It isn't what I consider sporting to win by playing on somebody else's emotions instead of skill so I would say that there were two people in the match that showed less than impressive sportsmanship.

Hu
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What you say has serious merit. Having said that, if my opponent was whining like a little baby for being three-fouled, that would just motivate me to do it again :D
 
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