6-Inch Pockets?
- Thread starter RED LITE
- Start date
I think the typical valley bar table does this. 6' long playing surface, pockets over 5", non existent pocket shelf, and pocket facing angles that will accept any ball.
Has it helped bring new players to the game? Who knows.
Has it helped bring new players to the game? Who knows.
Stock Valley pockets are 4 1/2" in the corner pockets, Valley has been that size for at least 30 years.
You'll probably get more than a fair share of complaints from purists, and smug remarks.
I think those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Maybe the key for pool in america is another hit movie from Hollywood.
Pool went into a slump from the golden age of the 40's. Businesses were folding up, and table makers were looking for ways to maintain and attract new players.
When "The Hustler" came out, pool became popular again. Brunswick introduced the AR6100, (Gold Crown) with larger pockets, tan baize, and combo Bowling Alley/Pool Parlor entertainment center.
In the late 80's The Color of Money gave the industry a similar boost. We switched straight pool to 9-ball. Simonis came out with 860 cloth to showcase the new game.
Kevin Trudeau thought the key was showcasing the easier game of 8-ball. If we want to lower the skill entry barrier, maybe it's easier to change the game than the table. That's what the industry has done, moving from straight pool, to 9-ball, to 8-ball (leagues). Maybe it's time for shortrack 8-ball.
I think those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. Maybe the key for pool in america is another hit movie from Hollywood.
Pool went into a slump from the golden age of the 40's. Businesses were folding up, and table makers were looking for ways to maintain and attract new players.
When "The Hustler" came out, pool became popular again. Brunswick introduced the AR6100, (Gold Crown) with larger pockets, tan baize, and combo Bowling Alley/Pool Parlor entertainment center.
In the late 80's The Color of Money gave the industry a similar boost. We switched straight pool to 9-ball. Simonis came out with 860 cloth to showcase the new game.
Kevin Trudeau thought the key was showcasing the easier game of 8-ball. If we want to lower the skill entry barrier, maybe it's easier to change the game than the table. That's what the industry has done, moving from straight pool, to 9-ball, to 8-ball (leagues). Maybe it's time for shortrack 8-ball.
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I had always thought that if I opened a room I would have tables for league play. Short shelves that were beveled and wider than norm pockets. That way every player would think they were far better than they are. For the good players, they would really dominate I think...
I don't have a Valley in front of me, and I know you know your stuff, but I find this hard to swallow.
The GC 1s I learned on had 5" corners at least. Plenty big enough
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big holes, nobody likes them
I have heard the argument for larger holes in golf and I cannot believe it will happen. It will change the game too much IMO.
In pool, do we really play this game to have easy shots? Are we really having fun when pocketing balls when they are 6 inches from the pocket? How rewarding would it be to pocket balls into a bucket? Or do we really cherish those difficult spots where we have to really bear down in order to pocket a tough shot? Make this game easier and you are making it less rewarding. I would venture to bet that we never get 6 inch pockets in a big way. It would not be pool anymore it would be something else. We play this game because it is so dam hard.
Yes, that is my 2 cents!
I have heard the argument for larger holes in golf and I cannot believe it will happen. It will change the game too much IMO.
In pool, do we really play this game to have easy shots? Are we really having fun when pocketing balls when they are 6 inches from the pocket? How rewarding would it be to pocket balls into a bucket? Or do we really cherish those difficult spots where we have to really bear down in order to pocket a tough shot? Make this game easier and you are making it less rewarding. I would venture to bet that we never get 6 inch pockets in a big way. It would not be pool anymore it would be something else. We play this game because it is so dam hard.
Yes, that is my 2 cents!
Bigger pockets
I don't think anyone is arguing for bigger pockets on all tables or making bigger pockets the official size.
Many years ago, Nick Varner suggested bigger pockets to get beginners to enjoy the game more, and then move to smaller pocket tables where the serious competition was.
I agreed then and I still do.
I don't think anyone is arguing for bigger pockets on all tables or making bigger pockets the official size.
Many years ago, Nick Varner suggested bigger pockets to get beginners to enjoy the game more, and then move to smaller pocket tables where the serious competition was.
I agreed then and I still do.
I think the current bar-boxes with very shallow shelf depths serve that purpose just fine. A 6" wide pocket in some ways would be more difficult. With 9 more inches of pocket mouth around the table, the possibility of a scratch will greatly increase for beginner players that leave whitey's position to random chance. Also, with pockets that wide, I can see some position play with hangers that might not be possible.
You're obviously speaking of miniature golf because the USGA most certainly would not sanction such a ludicrous notion.
As for pool tables, I sure as hell hope not.
As for pool tables, I sure as hell hope not.
In support of faster and more enjoyable golf, Jack Nicklaus and Muirfield Village Golf Club introduce Labor Day weekend tournaments of 12 holes, larger cups and slow-play penalties
DUBLIN, Ohio—Over recent months, Jack Nicklaus has joined several of golf’s leading organizations, including the PGA of America and USGA, to encourage out-of-the-box thinking to attract new players to the game and retain those already in the game. In an effort to show his commitment, the Golden Bear is experimenting with fun and innovative options in golf at one of the world’s most prestigious clubs, Muirfield Village Golf Club.
Muirfield Village Golf Club, as part of its Labor Day weekend golf festivities, will host two separate 12-hole tournaments, during which golfers will be encouraged to play one tee up from where they normally play, the hole will be almost doubled in size, and participants will be penalized for slow play.
“I love the game of golf and believe we have a unique opportunity right now to grow our sport,” Nicklaus said. “But we all have to recognize that the game in our country has been stagnant for a number of years, and actually has lost a significant number of golfers—close to four million in the last five years, according to the National Golf Foundation. The numbers of female and junior golfers—two segments that once represented a large percentage of the new people coming into the game—have dropped 23 and 35 percent, respectively, over the last five years. Many say the game is too hard and others say the game takes too long.
http://www.nicklaus.com/design/muirfieldvillage/labor-of-love.php
DUBLIN, Ohio—Over recent months, Jack Nicklaus has joined several of golf’s leading organizations, including the PGA of America and USGA, to encourage out-of-the-box thinking to attract new players to the game and retain those already in the game. In an effort to show his commitment, the Golden Bear is experimenting with fun and innovative options in golf at one of the world’s most prestigious clubs, Muirfield Village Golf Club.
Muirfield Village Golf Club, as part of its Labor Day weekend golf festivities, will host two separate 12-hole tournaments, during which golfers will be encouraged to play one tee up from where they normally play, the hole will be almost doubled in size, and participants will be penalized for slow play.
“I love the game of golf and believe we have a unique opportunity right now to grow our sport,” Nicklaus said. “But we all have to recognize that the game in our country has been stagnant for a number of years, and actually has lost a significant number of golfers—close to four million in the last five years, according to the National Golf Foundation. The numbers of female and junior golfers—two segments that once represented a large percentage of the new people coming into the game—have dropped 23 and 35 percent, respectively, over the last five years. Many say the game is too hard and others say the game takes too long.
http://www.nicklaus.com/design/muirfieldvillage/labor-of-love.php
Valley tables must have verrrrry wide pocket throats. Those pockets will eat my cue ball faster than 6 hungry baby birds in a nest.
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Valley tables must have verrrrry wide pocket throats. Those pockets will eat my cue ball faster than 6 hungry baby birds in a nest.
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They do, the throat is wider than the mouth of the pocket.
Golfers who shoot Bogey (~90:: +18) seem to have a nice time at playing <well> golf; yet they have absolutely no chance against a good golfer (+9), a scratch golfer (~72), or a pro (~4 under), and often play be <let's just say> irregular rules.
On the other hand these players are not playing in tournaments (in the sanctioned sense of the word) but occasionally in <self aligned> Groups sponsored events and as pick up players are random courses at random times.
Pool should find some means to all players like this (SL=3-to-4) to have a tolerably good time while playing pool in the very minutest sense of competition.
I don't think, in general, changing the pool table pocket size or shelf distance (or the size of the hole in golf) is a reasonable answer.
On the other hand these players are not playing in tournaments (in the sanctioned sense of the word) but occasionally in <self aligned> Groups sponsored events and as pick up players are random courses at random times.
Pool should find some means to all players like this (SL=3-to-4) to have a tolerably good time while playing pool in the very minutest sense of competition.
I don't think, in general, changing the pool table pocket size or shelf distance (or the size of the hole in golf) is a reasonable answer.
4 1/2" for over 30 years is correct. Probably more like 45 years. Johnnyt
Any size pockets, it's all part of the game. 6" would be fun!
Adjustment to thread question
To be completely accurate, some golf courses are experimenting with two different sized holes at each green. The newbies can play for the larger (8-inch) holes; the pros to use the standard holes (~ 4.25 inches).
Don't see that approach working for pool, of course.
RL
To be completely accurate, some golf courses are experimenting with two different sized holes at each green. The newbies can play for the larger (8-inch) holes; the pros to use the standard holes (~ 4.25 inches).
Don't see that approach working for pool, of course.
RL
Good points
Good points, but I think to most beginners all that matters is pocketing more object balls.
Good points, but I think to most beginners all that matters is pocketing more object balls.
Valley tables must have verrrrry wide pocket throats. Those pockets will eat my cue ball faster than 6 hungry baby birds in a nest.
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I think part of the reason bar table pockets seem so big is that with the nappy cloth, a "track" becomes worn down the rail, and the balls tend to stay in it.
