6 wing router cutter ...

WilleeCue

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
I got one of the 1" 6 wing router cutter for tapering and shaft cutting but found that one of the cutter tips is about .010" farther out than the others.
I have indicated the router shaft at less than .001" runout so that is not the cause
At the speed the router is running will any of the other tips get to do any cutting?
Could this be causing vibration that will result in the dreaded wavy lines in the wood?

I have found that on my new Porper B lathe the spinning speed needs to be very slow to get a smooth cut. The faster I spin the wood the more likely it is to get those vibration lines.

Pulled the trigger and ordered a CNC machine with the Kress router from Unique Products (CueMonster) so tapering and cutting precise shaft profiles will become much easier after that gets here ... but even with that new machine will this cutter cause problems?

Willee
 
WilleeCue said:
I got one of the 1" 6 wing router cutter for tapering and shaft cutting but found that one of the cutter tips is about .010" farther out than the others.
I have indicated the router shaft at less than .001" runout so that is not the cause
At the speed the router is running will any of the other tips get to do any cutting?
Could this be causing vibration that will result in the dreaded wavy lines in the wood?

I have found that on my new Porper B lathe the spinning speed needs to be very slow to get a smooth cut. The faster I spin the wood the more likely it is to get those vibration lines.

Pulled the trigger and ordered a CNC machine with the Kress router from Unique Products (CueMonster) so tapering and cutting precise shaft profiles will become much easier after that gets here ... but even with that new machine will this cutter cause problems?

Willee
Click to expand...

There are sharpening facilities that will grind them all the same length ............. but don't think you will ever know if you use the one you have......... I use one on my Cuemonster and it works just fine............ I run it full speed on a quiet router and I get a very good finish.............

Kim
 
Will,
I also have a 6-wing cutter that has a long wing. I have sent it to the grinder/sharpener a couple of times, explaining the problem and asking them to true it up. It's better than it used to be, but still a few thousands long.
Like you, I have found that if I reduce my turning speed down to around 300-400 RPM and my feed rate down to ~5-8 inches per minute, then I can pretty much eliminate the "barber pole" on my shaft and get a nice smooth finish. I'm slowly building a shaft for a customer with a 10mm tip and I'm worried that with the thinner diameter if it won't barber pole worse. We'll see.
It makes me want to experiment with a 1/2" or so straight router bit - I know others here say they use them with success.
My 2 cents,
Gary
 
GBCues said:
Will,
I also have a 6-wing cutter that has a long wing. I have sent it to the grinder/sharpener a couple of times, explaining the problem and asking them to true it up. It's better than it used to be, but still a few thousands long.
Like you, I have found that if I reduce my turning speed down to around 300-400 RPM and my feed rate down to ~5-8 inches per minute, then I can pretty much eliminate the "barber pole" on my shaft and get a nice smooth finish. I'm slowly building a shaft for a customer with a 10mm tip and I'm worried that with the thinner diameter if it won't barber pole worse. We'll see.
It makes me want to experiment with a 1/2" or so straight router bit - I know others here say they use them with success.
My 2 cents,
Gary
Click to expand...

The dreaded barber pole is a harmonic that builds up at certain feeds and speeds.

All the things combine to make it happen.

Tools must be sharp
lathe must be lubed
pressure on the ends of the piece must be light.... just spring pressure
bearings in the router must be good
feeds and speeds have to be just right.....

Kim
 
I've had the problems

I solved the problem by building a grinder to even the cutter heights. Just a standard
grinder with a dish diamond wheel and a cheap 5c indexer. You can trim down the
high cutter's top face real quick. Redoing the tips take about 1-2 minutes and its
does work much better. I buy wing cutters by the dozen....most are all off. And these
are cheapies but when they're even they cut well.

Gary, I'm going to checkout the unstuck labels. Thanks for the hint,
Ernie
 
One option is to forget the 6-wing cutter and look into a high grade 3-wing. I use Freud. They are heavy and stable compared to most of the cheaper wing cutters, plus they are machined with precision in mind and very sharp out of the box. They cost more on the front, but last much longer & make much cleaner cuts. They make 4-wingers, too, but I cannot tell the difference in cut quality so I stick with the 3-wing. A couple of guys I know prefer CMT, but I haven't had the luck they seem to have. IMO, Freud is by far and beyond the finest wing cutter I have tried, and is the only one I trust.
 
qbilder said:
One option is to forget the 6-wing cutter and look into a high grade 3-wing. I use Freud. They are heavy and stable compared to most of the cheaper wing cutters, plus they are machined with precision in mind and very sharp out of the box. They cost more on the front, but last much longer & make much cleaner cuts. They make 4-wingers, too, but I cannot tell the difference in cut quality so I stick with the 3-wing. A couple of guys I know prefer CMT, but I haven't had the luck they seem to have. IMO, Freud is by far and beyond the finest wing cutter I have tried, and is the only one I trust.
Click to expand...

I tried Freud. Got a great deal on them black ones . Too heavy for my liking .
I have some Magnate 3 and 4 wingers .
Problem is, no matter which one you get, there is always some play on that hole.
The threaded 6-winger 6801 seems to be the smoothest turning one but a lot less in diameter and pretty thick at .250 kerf.
Ernie I think is spot on. Might as well dedicate a shank for each one and sharpen and OD them on their dedicated arbors.
Of course, a spindle instead of a trim router might help too.
PS, the genius from Florida gets is as smooth as it gets . But, his spindle is worth more than some lathes.
 
Ernie eyocues said:
I solved the problem by building a grinder to even the cutter heights. Just a standard
grinder with a dish diamond wheel and a cheap 5c indexer. You can trim down the
high cutter's top face real quick. Redoing the tips take about 1-2 minutes and its
does work much better. I buy wing cutters by the dozen....most are all off. And these
are cheapies but when they're even they cut well.

Gary, I'm going to checkout the unstuck labels. Thanks for the hint,
Ernie
Click to expand...

I agree Ernie. That's just the best way to do it .
I'm thinking of sharpening them while they are chucked up.
Gotta build the jigs to do that though.
 
In my experience, when the teeth are not all very close to the same height, then you are just essentially using a single lip cutter. 0.01 inch is a long way out, and would have to think that the cutter you have is a bad one that has got through the system.
My cutters have variable pitch, they are 2 sets of 3 with a 3 deg or so radial offset. This helps in reducing the harmonic happening from the cutting.
CNC does not solve a fundamental cutting condition problem, and can sometimes make a poor cutting condition worse. To over come the poor cutting condition, ensure that you can vary the spindle speed and have ideally have some feed rate over ride as well.
Neil
 
I use a 6 wing on my chinese spindle, on a taper shaper.
That's a mouthful :)
I run it at 24k rpm, and a slow feed, probably 2-3 inches per minute with small passes.
Takes a while to turn anything but I don't have any barber poles and the shafts and butts are very smooth, very minimal hand sanding required.
On shafts it's a quick pass with 500, 800, then 1200 to finish
 
I use 3- wing cutters in arbors in PC laminated trim router. When they are new I put them on their own arbors and send them to a friend who cuts jewels. He laps them in on the diamond stone, going down to 8000 grit on the last passes, so the teeth are pretty even. His faceting tool has a dial indicator on it so that he can go to the same height on each cutting face. Even at that when mounted in the router most times only 2 of the wings are cutting, seldom all 3. They do stay sharp for quite a while this way.
 
I have the large 6 wing cutters (2.5 inches across and .250 thick) running 24k and cuts at 50 IPM at around 400 rpm on CNC wood lathe. I guess I need to true the blades as one wing sticks out about .002 more than the rest but then the shafts are smooth now so I don't see the point.

Now that I have the Work Sharp knife sharpener I might give it a try.
 
qbilder said:
How do you like that? Been thinking of getting one, as I use knives pretty extensively for hunting/butchering/cooking.
Click to expand...

I can now shave with my pocket knife. Got the Ken Onion edition and it is way easier than any stone or diamond that I have ever used. My uncle was a butcher and I learned how to use rod and leather to sharpen knives. I thought I was getting it sharp until I tried the Work Sharp. Ten times faster and very sharp.

I have been using wet stone to sharpen my carbide 3/4 bits when they get dull. Will now try the Work Sharp.
 
Brickcues said:
I can now shave with my pocket knife. Got the Ken Onion edition and it is way easier than any stone or diamond that I have ever used. My uncle was a butcher and I learned how to use rod and leather to sharpen knives. I thought I was getting it sharp until I tried the Work Sharp. Ten times faster and very sharp.

I have been using wet stone to sharpen my carbide 3/4 bits when they get dull. Will now try the Work Sharp.
Click to expand...

It'd be interesting if it sharpens carbides.
 
Brickcues said:
I can now shave with my pocket knife. Got the Ken Onion edition and it is way easier than any stone or diamond that I have ever used. My uncle was a butcher and I learned how to use rod and leather to sharpen knives. I thought I was getting it sharp until I tried the Work Sharp. Ten times faster and very sharp.

I have been using wet stone to sharpen my carbide 3/4 bits when they get dull. Will now try the Work Sharp.
Click to expand...

Nice! I have only heard great things. Thanks for sharing
 
just more quick info.

I have over 115 cutter plus 14 freud cutter dedicated for my profiler. My sample
size is reasonable for my deductions. All freuds were sharp, but all off by more
than .007, most all others were off by the same amount too. I think have had
3 or 4 that were less than .003" which seems to work well for me. And yes all
controls are variable. Feed and router are on variable transformers.

Precisionbits.com have reasonable wing cutters, sharp but off like most but when
I tune the cutter they work fine at a very low cost.

Bob I wish I had someone that would polish my tools. I sometimes use a diamond
file to hone the edge, it may help but I haven't seen much difference. It seems to
me that if all the cutter is tuned it works better. Just an opinion.
 
techniques,

One simple method.
I first used diamond files and hand honed them. This does work. Also on
you tube there are several listing on how to sharpen router bits. I got some
ideas for the videos and build a ruff system that sort of works.

hope this helps...
 
I trued up the shaft in my lathe chuck and used a Dremel to regrind the wing tips to as close to the same as I possibly could.
It made a BIG difference!
The tendency to barber pole the wood has gone away and it is now cutting smooth and clean even at .020" cut depths on maple.
I wonder why they can not be true when you buy them new?

Willee
 
WilleeCue said:
I trued up the shaft in my lathe chuck and used a Dremel to regrind the wing tips to as close to the same as I possibly could.
It made a BIG difference!
The tendency to barber pole the wood has gone away and it is now cutting smooth and clean even at .020" cut depths on maple.
I wonder why they can not be true when you buy them new?

Willee
Click to expand...

That is good news. The price is related to the precision of the grinding of the cutters. If they are done properly, the teeth can be ground concentric to less than 0.0003 inch TIR. That is what I have on my cutters.
Neil
 
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