9 ball is here to stay correct?

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been away from watching anything pool for the last two and a half years or so. I remember a lot of people wanting to make ten ball the game for the pros. I know here in NY the majority of pro/open events were call shot ten ball.

Anyways, after catching up on the last few big events or so in the last year, is it safe to say that the pro game going forward is still going to be 9 ball? I know diamond has the 10 ball world championship but I'll be honest, I can't remember or know of any other major ten ball events. Is the us open 10 ball still an event?

Again, I've been out of it for about two years so maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But which sub-game of nineball is here to stay:

1 on the spot versus 9 on the spot
no soft breaks and what determines a soft break
2 or three balls over the head string
no pushouts versus first shot pushout only versus pushout anything you want
Winner break versus alternating break
3 fouls and you are out
ETA:: CB in box versus CB in kitchen
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
While I doubt nine ball will be replaced as the primary competitive discipline anytime soon, I think it's safe to assume that it will be replaced somewhere down the road. Looking back on 1900-present in pool, and these are estimates, the main game was continuous pool for just over 20 years, then straight pool was the main game for about 55 years, and it has been nine ball ever since. The nine ball era is about 40 years old right now, but there's no reason to believe it won't end at some point. That said, I don't think it will be replaced by any "call shot" game, because call shot games are fan unfriendly. As we see annually at the Derby City Bigfoot 10-ball, played with Texas Express rules, 10-ball is a wonderful game.
 

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
While I doubt nine ball will be replaced as the primary competitive discipline anytime soon, I think it's safe to assume that it will be replaced somewhere down the road. Looking back on 1900-present in pool, and these are estimates, the main game was continuous pool for just over 20 years, then straight pool was the main game for about 55 years, and it has been nine ball ever since. The nine ball era is about 40 years old right now, but there's no reason to believe it won't end at some point. That said, I don't think it will be replaced by any "call shot" game, because call shot games are fan unfriendly. As we see annually at the Derby City Bigfoot 10-ball, played with Texas Express rules, 10-ball is a wonderful game.
I agree. I used to think 9-ball was just to easy a game for a pro player. That is until I saw Kaci run the set of 10-ball against Pagulayan. Now, I don't really feel like there is a world of difference between the two, with the exception that making a ball on the break in 10-ball can be at times more difficult.

JMHO, but I think the table conditions need to be tougher (and standardized) for the pros. Maybe Earl has it right.

Maniac
 

Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Aren't most of the really big cash games usually one pocket? It seems there's five one pocket matches for every race to 50 or 100 in rotation. What does that say?
 

justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
Maybe 9ball variations could be explored.

Numbered pocket 9 ball could turn into a competitive billiard game.

If 9 ball is here to stay, then players will continue to develop more "house rules"

beating the system means having your own rules to play by
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
While I doubt nine ball will be replaced as the primary competitive discipline anytime soon, I think it's safe to assume that it will be replaced somewhere down the road. Looking back on 1900-present in pool, and these are estimates, the main game was continuous pool for just over 20 years, then straight pool was the main game for about 55 years, and it has been nine ball ever since. The nine ball era is about 40 years old right now, but there's no reason to believe it won't end at some point. That said, I don't think it will be replaced by any "call shot" game, because call shot games are fan unfriendly. As we see annually at the Derby City Bigfoot 10-ball, played with Texas Express rules, 10-ball is a wonderful game.
If the announcers could "sell" it, I can see 61 rotation becoming a thing. There is strategy and a lot more combo shots. Very interesting and entertaining to watch, but you have to have an announcer to sell it to the general public and make them feel clever for being in on the "secret."

Watch some of the matches on youtube of Eferin playing rotation, or practicing by playing it. Amazing game.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Aren't most of the really big cash games usually one pocket? It seems there's five one pocket matches for every race to 50 or 100 in rotation. What does that say?
It says a hardened gambler doesn't want to trust their money to luck, but skill.
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
Nine ball is a fast game, if you own a Bar, and have pool tables. I bet you will make more profit on a 9 ball Tournment, in short time.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I still think good old fashioned 8 ball is the best test of a pros skill...pattern play, breaking out clusters, planning runs only to have them change when balls are inadvertently moved around, etc.

Plus it is the most recognized and played billiards game in the world, IMHO.

If only the ipt could have survived...



I also get that I am in the minority with this view
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I still think good old fashioned 8 ball is the best test of a pros skill...pattern play, breaking out clusters, planning runs only to have them change when balls are inadvertently moved around, etc.
Evidently you don't watch or play much one pocket.

As far eight ball being a test of skill and the IPT... In one IPT finals, which might have been a race to 13, it ended hill-hill and in the whole match there was only one rack that went into the second inning. All the other racks were won either from the break or by the other player on his first turn. That is not a test of skill.
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Evidently you don't watch or play much one pocket.

As far eight ball being a test of skill and the IPT... In one IPT finals, which might have been a race to 13, it ended hill-hill and in the whole match there was only one rack that went into the second inning. All the other racks were won either from the break or by the other player on his first turn. That is not a test of skill.

I tried watching several one pocket matches, but admittedly don't know enough of the intricacies of the game to be enthralled...which would be the issue with much of the casual pool playing population.

What is the difference in the ipt finals and watching svb sit in his chair as kazakis ran rack after rack of 9 ball recently? Why is planning a run accounting for 7 "blocker" balls any less interesting than watching a "connect the dots" nine ball run out?

Rhetorical questions, maybe, but if innings is what we are looking for, someone putting up a 6 pack in a race to 9 ain't it.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I tried watching several one pocket matches, but admittedly don't know enough of the intricacies of the game to be enthralled...which would be the issue with much of the casual pool playing population.

What is the difference in the ipt finals and watching svb sit in his chair as kazakis ran rack after rack of 9 ball recently? Why is planning a run accounting for 7 "blocker" balls any less interesting than watching a "connect the dots" nine ball run out?

Rhetorical questions, maybe, but if innings is what we are looking for, someone putting up a 6 pack in a race to 9 ain't it.
If you're kind of new to 1 pocket, watch almost any match on youtube with Chohan in it. He has a really fun to watch play style. If you can find highlights of him vs. Frost, it was a great time.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Evidently you don't watch or play much one pocket.

As far eight ball being a test of skill and the IPT... In one IPT finals, which might have been a race to 13, it ended hill-hill and in the whole match there was only one rack that went into the second inning. All the other racks were won either from the break or by the other player on his first turn. That is not a test of skill.
Yes, i agree with this- with modern equipment- balls, rail and cloth speed, the pros break open 8 ball racks where almost every time a ball goes in on the break and there is hardly a ball touching another ball- runout are not too difficult at that point for a pro player. Most pro 8 ball matches that i watch are almost continuous run outs - as they should be at that level with wide open tables.
 

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree. I used to think 9-ball was just to easy a game for a pro player. That is until I saw Kaci run the set of 10-ball against Pagulayan. Now, I don't really feel like there is a world of difference between the two, with the exception that making a ball on the break in 10-ball can be at times more difficult.

JMHO, but I think the table conditions need to be tougher (and standardized) for the pros. Maybe Earl has it right.

Maniac
Can't disagree that something should be done to stop continuous run outs- it does seem like the top pros are not being challenged enough.

BUT-- I think someone has to come up with a more challenging game- NOT even tighter pockets- the reason I say this is that if you continue to tighten up pockets ----- what happens---- the ordinary Joe starts thinking that he has to learn on the super tight pockets to get to his "dream" - so table mfgs. and room owners give in to those demands and start putting in super tight tables- then even more of the general public visits a pool room on a date or for recreation and immediately get turned off to the game bc there is not enough gratification for them in super tight pockets.

I remember as a 10 year old starting to play on our home table in 1963 that my dad bought for my older brothers one Christmas - those 5 inch pockets gave me the opportunity to find some instant success and gratification for the game that has lasted a lifetime- I estimate that I have easily spent north of $100,000 on this game over my lifetime on cues, tables, playing time, tournaments, accessories, repairs, events, etc. etc.
I doubt any of that would have occurred if I was introduced to a 4 1/4 inch pocket table.

Everyone in my neighborhood played pool-even family guys would come home from work and after dinner go out a night or two to the local room- with their own cues. We have to balance attracting the general public with challenging the pros and keep those two goals separate.
 

PoolBoy1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been away from watching anything pool for the last two and a half years or so. I remember a lot of people wanting to make ten ball the game for the pros. I know here in NY the majority of pro/open events were call shot ten ball.

Anyways, after catching up on the last few big events or so in the last year, is it safe to say that the pro game going forward is still going to be 9 ball? I know diamond has the 10 ball world championship but I'll be honest, I can't remember or know of any other major ten ball events. Is the us open 10 ball still an event?

Again, I've been out of it for about two years so maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions.
Stuck on predictable 9 ball. Like SVB could just break em and use a good player to run em. Very limited sport which hasn't really bottomed yet. Sales of home tables are up because we are getting less sociable. Not to mention the high per hour fees in pool rooms. 8 ball still my fav for 60 years. Not popular with pros because of the 7 opponent balls in their way. They would have to actually think.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I really don't see any good candidates for replacement at the moment.

Sure there are several games that in MY opinion are way better games. Rotation, even 8 ball (Chinese or other). Naturally I like straight pool the best, but it's time has come and gone as the main game. That is not to say it's at all realistic that the public or broadcasters will take to any of these games. People on here, who have been hanging around in pool halls for an unhealthy amount of time and inhaled enough chalk dust and cigarette smoke to kill an elephant, somehow think they know what people want.:rolleyes: Unfortunately, or probably fortunately, most people have not had their brains corrupted in such a dramatic fashion as to be completely desensitized to extreme boredom and completely blasè to all the actual charms of pool. These pool hall dwellers think a 2-4 hour one pocket wedge game on a table with 2.75 inch pockets will turn the world onto pool. No power shots, no jumps, no masses and pretty much no ball pocketing of anyting but hangers. No power breaks either, of course. Should anyone pocket a ball on the break, by all means the rules should discourage or outlaw a runout. I seriously do not know why these people don't play Billiards rather than pool and with maces to ensure their brains do not get overloaded with excitement. Personally the rules these people are pitching makes a proposal for a world championship of philately sound like an adrenalin explosion. To please these people, any event must be played in a mortuary-like setting with complete silence from spectators as well as commentators.Good luck selling this kind of game to any sane production company.

Its very hard to come up with a premise for a game that is both simple to understand and challenging. Most "newly created games" fall into the trap of being overly complex. I think a new game may come, but it will not likely be a refinement of 9 ball, because everything has been tried with that game, more or less. It's an elegant rule set for a game, but it is also a little bit limiting. The 9 balls do not leave enough to work with as far as refining, and the diamond rack has been competely mapped out to the point of being a joke.
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been away from watching anything pool for the last two and a half years or so. I remember a lot of people wanting to make ten ball the game for the pros. I know here in NY the majority of pro/open events were call shot ten ball.

Anyways, after catching up on the last few big events or so in the last year, is it safe to say that the pro game going forward is still going to be 9 ball? I know diamond has the 10 ball world championship but I'll be honest, I can't remember or know of any other major ten ball events. Is the us open 10 ball still an event?

Again, I've been out of it for about two years so maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions.
For 9-ball, it seems using the template to rack, racking high with the 9-ball on the spot and requiring to break from the break box is the combination of breaking rules that makes it hardest on players to consistently make a certain ball in a certain pocket on the break, to keep it more interesting and competitive.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... What is the difference in the ipt finals and watching svb sit in his chair as kazakis ran rack after rack of 9 ball recently? ...
I imagine you are talking about Kazakis' 9-0 win over SVB in the finals of the World Pool Masters. SVB went to the table in 6 of those 9 games, and he just kept blundering. It wasn't that Kazakis kept SVB from shooting by running game after game (he had 3 B&R's, not all in a row). But Kazakis played well after each SVB goof.
 

mnorwood

Moon
Silver Member
Rotation games are terrible to watch via T.V. or streaming even worse in person as nobody can settle on a ball color scheme that anyone can follow especially while drinking. 8 ball on larger table, smaller pockets and slower cloth where you have red/yellow balls set against a high green cloth then pool might be something people will watch. 9 ball is like a 10,000 pound weight around the neck of the game. If nobody has realized this by now then nobody ever will and if the game is still around in 10 years we will still be talking about it wandering why pool can't get out of the gate..
 
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