9-Ball Position Play (What kind of english to use)

Kris_b1104

Kris_b1104

House Pro in my own home.
Silver Member
I've watched almost every tournament match you can think of on Youtube, studying the patterns that pros use and how they get out. I pretty much know where they're trying to go and what is the best route, the only trouble I have is how they're getting there. Some shots are obvious like using inside english to go 3 rails on a thin cut shot, but most of the time the camera angle does not allow you to see exactly where the pros are placing their tip on the cue ball. So my main problem lies within knowing exactly where to hit the ball to get it to the next position, although I know where I want my ball. Is there any diagrams online that I can look at where they are showing you EXACTLY what type of english they're using to get to the next ball? Or any videos? Thank you very much.
 
Practice time will do more for you than a video or book. The thing is, moving the cueball or object ball to a different position than a book has laid out, will change what you need to do. An understanding of how the balls react with the rails will get you much further than someone or something saying "low left" or "7 oclock". There are just a million different situations that you could find yourself in and a video cannot cover that.

I know that sounds like a bullshit answer and not what you're looking for but trust me, experiment and get a feel for it and it will take you further.
 
May I ask how you can have the knowledge to predict where the pro will put the CB without having the knowledge of what it takes to put it there?

If that is really true, then I think you have a HUGE headstart on the game.

If you really figured all that out and can predict where they are going reliably, then I think you should learn the execution on your own as well. You are a good learner.

Set up a shot exactly like a shot in a pro video. Keep experimenting on the hit/stroke/aim until you duplicate exactly what the pro did. Now you have learned the shot for life.

Learning this way IMO is 100 times better than someone showing you.

The above is my 2 cents. I don't claim to be a good player or an instructor of any kind. I just know when I learn something on my own through trial and error, I learn it better than if someone just walked up to me and said do this.
 
banking is creating angles and all pool shots are angles.

Kris_b1104 said:
I've watched almost every tournament match you can think of on Youtube, studying the patterns that pros use and how they get out. I pretty much know where they're trying to go and what is the best route, the only trouble I have is how they're getting there. Some shots are obvious like using inside english to go 3 rails on a thin cut shot, but most of the time the camera angle does not allow you to see exactly where the pros are placing their tip on the cue ball. So my main problem lies within knowing exactly where to hit the ball to get it to the next position, although I know where I want my ball. Is there any diagrams online that I can look at where they are showing you EXACTLY what type of english they're using to get to the next ball? Or any videos? Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

You are on the right track, the tip and the angles do connect, and I show this in detail in 'TIP Banking Secrets' ....banking is creating angles and all pool shots are angles (unless the ball is straight in, this is a straight line). All shotmaking is creating angles - this is the perception that's easiest.

At first the players that I've worked with don't like the idea of creating angles with their tip and the cue ball (without "aiming"). Then when I show them how it actually works and the precision and accuracy it generates, they quickly "open their minds" to the potential of the TOI.

I know this is "common sense," however I'll say it again "the cue ball is the target and the tip is the only direct relationship we have to the Game."

Doesn't it stand to reason that it's easier to create every "shot angle" by using the TIP as a reference point connected to a consistent "target" on the object ball (center or edge is the only target you will ever need).

When the TOI Video is watched with "an open mind," everyone will be able to "Real Eyes" the simplicity of super-accurate shot making and distance will no longer matter.

When you're just connecting to the center or edge and creating angles with your tip, you will be the same distance from the target. The CUE BALL IS THE TARGET and you can control the distance and perception the cue ball gives you EVERY TIME - this is not true with the object ball.

Some people labor for years "trying" to see {a ghost ball} or a contact point on the cue ball (then try to hit the "contact point" with a cue ball "contact point" - talk about challenging).

This is a fruitless pursuit and will lead to many frustrating hours at the table. TOI makes the Game FUN AGAIN, because you no longer have to "think" about ball pocketing, you just "point, connect the dots and click". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
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cleary said:
Practice time will do more for you than a video or book. The thing is, moving the cueball or object ball to a different position than a book has laid out, will change what you need to do. An understanding of how the balls react with the rails will get you much further than someone or something saying "low left" or "7 oclock". There are just a million different situations that you could find yourself in and a video cannot cover that.

I know that sounds like a bullshit answer and not what you're looking for but trust me, experiment and get a feel for it and it will take you further.
Click to expand...



Thanks, I definitely do need to put in way more practice time than I do putting in YouTube watching time. I guess I'm asking because I've had instances where I'm playing and a shot comes up that I've seen a billion times and know what I have to do, but my execution is completely wrong. I guess the key is more practice and less playing against friends. Thanks for the advice though.
 
iusedtoberich said:
May I ask how you can have the knowledge to predict where the pro will put the CB without having the knowledge of what it takes to put it there?
Click to expand...

Constantly watching that particular pro and learning how they play I guess. But thank you, I will try to practice more on my own with some trial and error and see where that gets me.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
If you know someone who owns old accu-stats tapes, see if you can watch some where Grady Mathews is a commentator. Grady tells you exactly what the pros put on the ball, one of the many reasons why he is my favourite commentator. Other than that there are of course books.
Click to expand...

Lol I don't know anyone with Accu-Stats videos and don't think I'd want to pay for them, but hardly any commentators on YouTube tell you where the player is hitting the cue ball, they mainly go off tangent.
 
The thing is, even if you do figure out exactly what english the pros are using, you could hit the exact spot and still fail to get shape because you'll still need to hit the shot exactly the right speed and with the correct type of stroke. And there are some shots that will be extremely difficult to duplicate because they require a pro-level stroke to get enough action on the cue ball.

Instead of being told what english to use, the best thing to do is experiment with different types of spin yourself and find what english works for you with your current ability and stroke. It takes time, but eventually, you'll be able to instantly recognize the necessary spin for any given shot.

Another thing that may be helpful is that the pros use a lot less sidespin than most people think, and when they do, it's usually about half a tip or less.
 
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even the Pro couldn't tell you where they hit it

Kris_b1104 said:
Lol I don't know anyone with Accu-Stats videos and don't think I'd want to pay for them, but hardly any commentators on YouTube tell you where the player is hitting the cue ball, they mainly go off tangent.
Click to expand...

Every player hits the cue ball differently, even the Pro couldn't tell you where they hit it. ;)
 
Lessons

This would be a good time to start taking lessons.

Lessons from a good instructor will advance your game so much faster and will help keep you from developing bad habits early on.
 
CJ Wiley said:
You are on the right track, the tip and the angles do connect, and I show this in detail in 'TIP Banking Secrets' ....banking is creating angles and all pool shots are angles (unless the ball is straight in, this is a straight line). All shotmaking is creating angles - this is the perception that's easiest.

At first the players that I've worked with don't like the idea of creating angles with their tip and the cue ball (without "aiming"). Then when I show them how it actually works and the precision and accuracy it generates, they quickly "open their minds" to the potential of the TOI.

I know this is "common sense," however I'll say it again "the cue ball is the target and the tip is the only direct relationship we have to the Game."

Doesn't it stand to reason that it's easier to create every "shot angle" by using the TIP as a reference point connected to a consistent "target" on the object ball (center or edge is the only target you will ever need).

When the TOI Video is watched with "an open mind," everyone will be able to "Real Eyes" the simplicity of super-accurate shot making and distance will no longer matter.

When you're just connecting to the center or edge and creating angles with your tip, you will be the same distance from the target. The CUE BALL IS THE TARGET and you can control the distance and perception the cue ball gives you EVERY TIME - this is not true with the object ball.

Some people labor for years "trying" to see {a ghost ball} or a contact point on the cue ball (then try to hit the "contact point" with a cue ball "contact point" - talk about challenging).

This is a fruitless pursuit and will lead to many frustrating hours at the table. TOI makes the Game FUN AGAIN, because you no longer have to "think" about ball pocketing, you just "point, connect the dots and click". 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice CJ, I've watched a lot of your videos on YouTube pertaining to TOI and it seems very unnatural for me, I'm more of a look at the contact point and shoot kind of guy, but you're 100% right that it does get frustrating when there's no type of aiming system.
 
gregcantrall said:
This would be a good time to start taking lessons.

Lessons from a good instructor will advance your game so much faster and will help keep you from developing bad habits early on.
Click to expand...

That would require spending a lot of money...I don't know any instructors in the New York area, except for Strickland at Steinway Billiards but once again, requires the use of money.
 
The way I Iook at it is, you can run out and I can run out, which in most peoples
eyes is great. Proper pattern play is based on percentages of which runout
is least likely to falter in the long run.
Watch whatever pro you enjoy watching and you will learn.Never try to learn
from somebody you don't enjoy watching.
I tell guys all the time ''don't try to play like your favorite player,just think like him''.
 
even if I miss my position I can still get to the next shot.

Kris_b1104 said:
Thanks for the advice CJ, I've watched a lot of your videos on YouTube pertaining to TOI and it seems very unnatural for me, I'm more of a look at the contact point and shoot kind of guy, but you're 100% right that it does get frustrating when there's no type of aiming system.
Click to expand...

Maybe you just need a different way to look at your position play.

There's many ways to play the Game of Pocket Billiards and playing position is something that no two players will do exactly the same.

It is commonly understood to try to play position to give yourself the easiest shot on your next ball. This may be correct at times, and it does have it's disadvantages, especially if you're playing a player that makes you "come" with a great shot many times during the match.

Sometimes it's better to "stay ready" for the tougher shots and to do this you may need to consider to find a way to hit every shot at a more consistent speed and playing a consistent angle. I like to play a "half ball hit or slightly less on the majority of my shots, because even if I miss my position I can still get to the next shot.

Experiment with this and if you want a free video, just PM me and I'll send you one that will help you right away. (not TOI....yet). Play Well, Bud, the game will teach you.
 
It really doesn't matter exactly where they hit the CB. There are just too many additional variables that contribute to where the CB is going including stroke, grip, wrist action, fluidity, and on and on.

Everyone strokes differently. You need to develop touch. Play straight pool and you will learn touch.
 
scsuxci said:
The way I Iook at it is, you can run out and I can run out, which in most peoples
eyes is great. Proper pattern play is based on percentages of which runout
is least likely to falter in the long run.
Watch whatever pro you enjoy watching and you will learn.Never try to learn
from somebody you don't enjoy watching.
I tell guys all the time ''don't try to play like your favorite player,just think like him''.
Click to expand...

This is very true, I only watch players that I like. Your last sentence is brilliant, will definitely keep that in my head next time I'm down on a shot.... WWSVBD... What Would Shane Van Boening Do?.... Draw the ball 2 tables length... Oops that's not in my arsenal. But I'll try!
 
make note of 5-10 shots that you are curious about and take that to the practice room with you. Trial and error. Learning from your mistakes is much more valuable and learning from what not to do can stick with you longer...
 
Joe Tucker's Guaranteed Improvement drills will get you used to using english to pinpoint the cue ball position.

If you want a book that runs through every shot taken through the match, along with the DVD of the match, you could get Capelle on 9 Ball: Archer vs. Reyes.

Watching matches can improve your pattern play, in my opinion, but isn't really the best for learning english and exact cue ball control. Knowing that the pro hit a tip outside at 10 o'clock won't do you any good until you've hit the shot yourself a bunch of times. Drills and lots of practice (including matching up) will teach you how to get from point A to point B on the table. Just because you've seen the shot in a match and know where you have to hit the cue ball doesn't mean you can make it happen without the experience to back the knowledge up.
 
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