9 ball push rule question

Spots/Rules

ctyhntr said:
Would BCA rules help clarify in this situation?

On a push out, the cue ball is not required to contact any object ball nor any rail, but all other foul rules still apply.
http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_9bl.shtml
Click to expand...


That rule of pocketed balls stay down, would not apply in this situation, because there is a spot in the game. Any time there is a spot, standard rules may not apply, for the past 39 years playing 9-ball I've never heard of a spot ball staying down after a push out!


David Harcrow
 
Big_H515 said:
well, I guess that just makes me an a**hole then, but this is the way i have played both when giving, and receiving similar spots unless it what brought up during negotiation of said game/set. Moral of the story..ask specific questions such as this when matching up. Some people and/or pool rooms play with different rules, know and understand them and if you do not, ask questions.
Click to expand...

Another fine example of how 9 Ball has become a broken game!
 
Hi there Art,

I come from the old school. I ran around the country husslin on the road and playing 2 shot shootout before most of the guys on here were even in diapers.

If your opponent makes your money ball on a bad hit you spot it up. If your opponent makes your money ball on a push it comes back up.

If you think about it, it wouldn't be right to just shoot his money ball in on a push because it would be stealing his spot.

But if I was playing on the road and biting and scratching for every dime and I could talk the guy into letting me shoot his ball in on a push and leave it down I think he would have a very bad day financially. Especially if he needed the 8 ball for sure.

I might even see if he wanted to raise the bet before he realized I kept taking away his spot.

2 shot was the best game for husslin there was years back. We didn't need one pocket to stall and lay down a little bit. You could play bad shape on purpose and then push out knowing the ability of your opponent really helped with your game plan.

It was a pure art form. Not like one shot. BING BANG BONK and less brain...........

When I was on the road years back playing 2 shot we used to go back to the same places over and over just like a strip farmer. Just so you let them build up their cash again.

And the beautiful thing of it was they still didn't really know how well you really played.

One time John Shuppit and myself were on the road. We were in this bar in Duluth,Mn and ran into these 2 millionaire brothers that owned some company. We just shot with a bar cue that didn't even hardly have a tip on it. We just took turns shooting whoever these brothers brought in. I don't think we ever ran a rack because we didn't have to. we could always push out.

About $5,000.00 later I don't think they even knew if we owned a cue.

If anyone over there in Omaha Knows John Shuppit ask him about it and tell his side of the story on that.

Ask John if i know how to play cribbage? These 2 millionaire brothers could play but not good enough!

Anyway, 2 shot is a great game...........PERIOD.........................
 
Last edited:
the best way to understand this spot is that the 8 counts as a second 9 ball on the table for you, there for has all the rules that follow the 9. if you shoot the 8 ball on a push it spots like the actual 9. if its made on a foul shot it spots etc...

for your opponent the 8 still has all the rules that follow the 9 but he doesnt win when its made in rotation or during a legal shot... simple:cool:
 
I'm kind of inclined to say this is fair. It's not his job to make sure you get the full advantage of the weight. Him shooting the 8 decreases your odds of taking home the cash? Well yeah, so does him winning this rack. So does hiding his speed and then suddenly shooting great. So does running out racks without giving you a chance to shoot. He's doing his job.

Meanwhile, your job is unchanged -
Situation A: The other guy doesn't shoot the 8. I have to sink 8 balls to win the game.
Situation B: The other guy does shoot in the 8. I have to sink 8 balls to win the game.
[on a slightly less crowded table, therefore an easier run]

Even though situation B means he has one less ball to sink than you, he actually DOES sink it. He just sunk it on the push. He still has to make the shot, assuming he gets lucky enough that it's makeable. And he still has to play shape from it too; he must leave it in that push position without selling out something you can make or hooking himself on the 1.

It's really not his fault that the victim didn't know about this "dirty trick"...but now that he does, he also knows to set some ground rules in future sets. I wouldn't go into any pool hall assuming that it comes up automatically.
 
Art Vandelay said:
if you a playing for $$ and getting weight, in this case I was getting the 8, the other guy breaks, makes a ball but has no good shot, so he calls "push" and deliberately pockets the 8 ball.

Question is, does the 8 come back up?
Click to expand...
I'd say at that point you'd have to stop and talk about the rules of the game. If he insists that it's okay to do that, I'd breakdown my cue and tell him game's over.
 
Art Vandelay said:
if you a playing for $$ and getting weight, in this case I was getting the 8, the other guy breaks, makes a ball but has no good shot, so he calls "push" and deliberately pockets the 8 ball.

Question is, does the 8 come back up?
Click to expand...

The correct rule on this SHOULD be (remember, in pool a "should do" will probably take us about 100 years) that the player getting weight gets to decide if it comes back up or not. That is the only fair way to do it, end of discussion really.
 
The Correct Response is Given by David

catpool9 said:
That rule of pocketed balls stay down, would not apply in this situation, because there is a spot in the game. Any time there is a spot, standard rules may not apply, for the past 39 years playing 9-ball I've never heard of a spot ball staying down after a push out!


David Harcrow
Click to expand...

This answer is 100% on the nose. Since no spots are allowed in official tournament play,the money ball is treated like a Game Ball. Gamblers need to clear these matters before posting the Cash. Good Answer David.
Cajunfats-knows a little bit about the Rules of Pool.
I also see that Geno posted the same thing,and as he stated he's played pushout a long time...old fart! Hey, I think Jerry Frederickson told me about you beating those two guys up there....or was it Hal???
 
Last edited:
Turnabout

Following his logic, when you can, take a push and shoot in the nine. Tell him it stays down. Then double the bet, I like your odds!
 
cajunfats said:
This answer is 100% on the nose. Since no spots are allowed in official tournament play,the money ball is treated like a Game Ball. Gamblers need to clear these matters before posting the Cash. Good Answer David.
Cajunfats-knows a little bit about the Rules of Pool.
I also see that Geno posted the same thing,and as he stated he's played pushout a long time
Click to expand...

I agree, 100%!
 
ICUE said:
My thinking comes down to this, how is his eight ball, ie extra game ball different than the nine. To me the same rules should apply to it, as it would apply to the nine. So in this case the eight would spot just like it would if he pocketed the nine. But once again a clear case of agreeing before hand conditions of the game when a handicap is involved.
Click to expand...

You have it correct.
 
If I was being spotted the eight and my opponent dropped the eight like you said I would argue to have it put on the spot. If he refused then I would say "I quit".
 
Tough one. I could go either way on this one. If he was giving the 5, or the 6 ball it would seem all the more dirty pool and unfair, and i would say it defiantly spots, but for some reason being the 8 ball, it seems almost ok?????One less ball to run(seems fair), but one less money ball to combo.Was the 8 ball a hanger? Most things considered, i kinda think it should spot up.
 
We always play that the spot ball made on a foul spots up while a spot ball made on a fouls comes up. By this logic, the ball would stay down. No foul occured.

Just as if the guy giving the eight has a chance to make a one-eight combo, he makes it the eight stays down. If he makes the combo and scratches, it comes up.


So by strict rules it could be argued that it would stay down. BUT if I was getting the eight, and my opponenet did that, I would be renogotiating or quitting. In all the time getting and giving balls, I have never pulled that move or had it done to me.

I think it could be argued either way, so it should be declared and agreed upon by both parties. If it happened to me, I would protest, and make it known that the practice of making my spot in that fashion will be a deal breaker.

Because it was not specifically agreed upon before hand, I would concede that ONE occurance (realize that he did push, so now you have control of the table, and are still in a position to win). Then, if he still felt that he should be allowed to do that move, then I would not continue the game.

If the guy is truly a ball better than me, he should realize that he should make me happy and keep me playing. If not, I am moving on.

The bottom line is that it was not discussed beforehand, so it is up for discussion. But it should be addressed. What is to stop him from calling push every rack, and taking away your spot? Though in reality, the called 8 is not a huge spot. If you are really that close or think you have a very good chance of winning with that spot, you should still have a good shot if he were to pull that move. He is giving up his turn at the table and giving you the option of shooting or passing and all he is getting is making you shoot one more ball to win.

Think about that for a second. If it were to happen every rack, it could almost be a spot for you! You would be gauranteed a shot at the beginning of EVERY game with the option of passing it back if you did not like it. Doesn't sound all that bad to me. Maybe you should say that he HAS to push every rack and MAKE THAT YOUR SPOT!! :eek:


Jw



Jw
 
100% correct

TWOFORPOOL said:
The real roll out rules (before Texas Express) the eight ball would spot and so would any illegally pockect balls. At least thats how I remember it from 30 years ago.
Click to expand...

Hi there, Your so right. And then when we played on the bar table we started leaving balls down because we couldn't get them back.

But the money balls always spotted back up nomatter if it was big table or bar table.

But then again I can remember lining the balls up on the spot even on the bar table.

I remember we would put the 12 or 13 ball up and say it was the 8 ball if that was the ball that was illegally pocketed. But at some point we converted because it was just too tough to put all the balls up. You had to put more money in the coin bar table.
 
this thread get more rediculous every time i look !

the ball spots up , period. and that is coming from a guy who never gets the 8. :eek:
 
The bottom line is that it was not discussed beforehand, so it is up for discussion. But it should be addressed. What is to stop him from calling push every rack, and taking away your spot? [snip]... Think about that for a second. If it were to happen every rack, it could almost be a spot for you! You would be gauranteed a shot at the beginning of EVERY game with the option of passing it back if you did not like it. Doesn't sound all that bad to me. Maybe you should say that he HAS to push every rack and MAKE THAT YOUR SPOT!!
Click to expand...

This sounds pretty good to me. To answer the question "what is to stop him from shooting the 8 every rack" ... just that it's not always shootable, or it might be difficult. You don't get an easy look on it every time.

Who knows, maybe in the course of trying for it, he will screw up and hang it up or sell out.

And yeah, giving up your turn at the table just to erase the spot won't always be a perfect trade. Maybe he'd have gotten out if he tried for the tough 1 rather than get tempted by the easy 8.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top