9-Ball Situation - What Would YOU Do?

[pharaoh68]

Or there's always the very stupid option of playing the bank.

Stirght into the left side of the 9 with high, inside english. If you play it hard and just to the left of center, and you spin it enough, you could bank it in the low-left corner.

If you're inside the diamond, you can play it virtually the same way but thinner, you can bank it three rails (short rail, bottom side rail, opposite end short rail) into the top side pocket.

Both of these shots are stupid and should only be played if there is nothing at stake.

 

[GG11]

The Shot:
The first thing I thought of was "Don't Kick It."
Its too much of a sell-out risk.

I hatechu! LOL JK

Yeah, I kicked at it and not in the smart, reasonable way that Jude or anyone else is suggesting. I hit it with high center and a little bit of right. (stop laughing! ) Now that Jude mentioned the low ball hit and it straightening out the ball off the rail, that makes much more sense. DUR!

Now here's the ultimate bummer. I missed the kick and SOMEHOW got lucky and and left my opponent this:

CueTable Help

But she banked it in the side like it had eyes!!! (WEEP!!)

I talking to friends who watched, some said to leave the 9 ball and cue ball on opposing long rails, but I feel like that's an easy bank. What I probably should have done is slow rolled it dead into the 9-ball and hope the 9 freezes. Though I do love the idea of hitting the 9-ball dead in the face and sending the cue ball back up table and leaving the 9 virtually where it started. But I'll have to practice that shot and see it done before I'd have faith that I'd do it correctly.

Sounds like my kicking at it wasn't so terribly off. WOOHOO!

BTW, if Mr. Lipsky is reading this ... is this a chance for that "WACK IT" shot you demonstrated for me?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

It seems like this would have a good chance to follow the 9-ball into the pocket...As the 9-ball gets closer to the pocket the chance increases....I woul think???

Am I looking at this wrong????

Honestly, I think if you're going to kick, you almost have to throw caution to the wind. There is going to be a degree of unpredictability and you really can only control so much. It's the same as when you're faced with a very thin cut on the 9 and you know you're going to fly around the table. If you manage to not find a pocket, great. If you do find one, you chalk it up to bad luck and move on.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Do you understand that there are two hit locations since the 9-ball is off the rail?

Do you understand they're both there regardless of how you hit the cue ball?

By straightening out, you have a greater chance at hitting the ball full.

If you mean a greater chance of hitting the target, I've already said you do, just not by much - not by enough to make this shot worthwhile unless the "natural" angle is blocked (about a 5% increase according to Bob Jewett, which I'm sure is less than the increased inaccuracy).

pj
chgo

 

[cuetable]

9-ball is NOT frozen, but it's so close and the cue ball is dead straight so you can't bank it. You almost have to hit less than 1/2 the 9-ball to miss the double hit.

Like many suggested here, I think 1 rail kick is a good way to go since the target is quite big. In addition, the following are some possible return safeties when shooting the shot at rolling speed:

CueTable Help

PS. people, please remove the [ WEI ] code when quoting others to reduce having repeated layouts

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Good Monday Morning to You All!

So, I played in the JPNEWT this weekend! First time I've cashed in it!! WOOT WOOT to me!

So, this is how I lost the last match. I'm down 6-4 (after being down 6-1). My opponent misses the 9-ball and ends up leaving me this anyways. (Ain't 9-ball a pisser!! )

What would you do?? I'll let you know the ridiculous shot I took and what shot I think I should have taken ... after I removed my head from my #*&!

Keep in mind, I'm right handed and would have required the bridge to shoot the 9-ball head on in any way so for you lefties, put it on the other side of the table and for you bean poles, now you're a shortie! Oh and this is a regulation size pool table.

9-ball is NOT frozen, but it's so close and the cue ball is dead straight so you can't bank it. You almost have to hit less than 1/2 the 9-ball to miss the double hit.

ENJOY!

CueTable Help

Kick it in.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Jude is correct in that the shot is useful to know.

I agree with that - it's useful if the natural kick angle is blocked. It's not useful here.

... But I don't think it gives a better percentage than the simple rolling kick, and it is much more subject to table conditions.

And operator error.

pj
chgo

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I agree with that - it's useful if the natural kick angle is blocked. It's not useful here.



And operator error.

pj
chgo

Patrick, this game is about minute improvements. Improving your percentage here and there adds up. 5% is significant. I think a lot of people don't like this approach because it doesn't work with many kicking systems but the fact is, you are increasing the size of two contact points (the direct hit and rail first) and you can't ignore that.

 

[Steve Lipsky]

IBTW, if Mr. Lipsky is reading this ... is this a chance for that "WACK IT" shot you demonstrated for me?

Hey GG,

The 4-railer would probably go from here, but there are several considerations riding against it:

1) You'd be using a bridge - generating the proper power for this shot with the bridge would be very difficult...

2) You have a reasonable offensive shot (the kick) and a reasonable defensive shot (thinning the 9 on the right side) at your disposal right now.

The 4-rail wack-a-thon only really comes into play as a last resort - when your cueball is waaaaay back down table and you have precious few options. From here, the kick is a total sell-out and thinning the 9 is very difficult to pull off appropriately. The 4-railer lets you stroke the cueball well while putting the object ball into a highly profitable lane - definitely better than all your other options when your cueball is that far away.

Just my 2 cents...

- Steve

 

[cleary]

Is it possible to see the 4 railer you're talking about on a cue table?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Is it possible to see the 4 railer you're talking about on a cue table?

I've seen Steve Lipsky make this shot several times in a row. With that said, you still have to spend a little time with it.

CueTable Help

 

[cleary]

I've seen Steve Lipsky make this shot several times in a row. With that said, you still have to spend a little time with it.

HAHA, yes, I have a feeling it will take a while to figure out. Thanks Jude.

 

[GG11]

Hey GG,

The 4-railer would probably go from here, but there are several considerations riding against it:

1) You'd be using a bridge - generating the proper power for this shot with the bridge would be very difficult...

2) You have a reasonable offensive shot (the kick) and a reasonable defensive shot (thinning the 9 on the right side) at your disposal right now.

The 4-rail wack-a-thon only really comes into play as a last resort - when your cueball is waaaaay back down table and you have precious few options. From here, the kick is a total sell-out and thinning the 9 is very difficult to pull off appropriately. The 4-railer lets you stroke the cueball well while putting the object ball into a highly profitable lane - definitely better than all your other options when your cueball is that far away.

Just my 2 cents...

- Steve

You said Wack-a-thon! LOL!!

Thanks Steve for the input. The bridge info made sense. It's actually why I chose the kick shot this weekend b/c the bridge makes everything so uncomfortable. Guess that means I'm suppose to go practice with a bridge right? Boo!

Thanks for the good info guys!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Patrick, this game is about minute improvements. Improving your percentage here and there adds up. 5% is significant.

But you're not improving your percentage here by 5%. You're increasing your target size by 5% while decreasing your shooting accuracy by more than that - it's a net loss in the percentage of times you'll be successful with the shot.

...you are increasing the size of two contact points (the direct hit and rail first) and you can't ignore that.

Again, there are two contact points whether or not you shorten the angle (and unless the ball is frozen to the rail), so that's not an advantage of your method. And I certainly can ignore a 5% larger target when it costs me more than that in accuracy and reduces my overall chance of success.

pj
chgo

 

[mikepage]

Wait, huh? the target isn't 2.25". The whole ball is 2.25". The target may be only 1/4".

Maybe this is why i rarely win at this game: I was thinking the target is 4.5 inches ;-)

 

[bagofpaper]

Patrick, this game is about minute improvements. Improving your percentage here and there adds up. 5% is significant. I think a lot of people don't like this approach because it doesn't work with many kicking systems but the fact is, you are increasing the size of two contact points (the direct hit and rail first) and you can't ignore that.

Jude, I think you are missing PJ's point which is that shortening the angle of the kick with a draw stroke (or inside) is more difficult to control than kicking naturally and that difference in difficulty will overshadow any gain in percentage you'll get from the approach angle being more shallow.

It's a toss up in my opinion and a matter of what you are more comfortable with. Thanks for pointing out the shot Jude...

EDIT: Remind me to read the whole thread before responding.. lol.

 

[sjm]

Assuming the nine isn't frozen, and it doesn't appear to be even near frozen in the diagram, this is a very easy kick in. If you don't think so, practice it. Nice job cashing in the event!

On a separate note, if I'm playing defense here , which I'm not, I'll thin the right edge of the nine and send the cue ball long. Begging to differ with some others in this thread, the head-on safety that leaves a two way bank in the corner is losing pool, in my opinion. A very important principle of tactical play is to never leave a two way shot on a safety. Doing so is a costly approach against all but very weak players.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Maybe this is why i rarely win at this game: I was thinking the target is 4.5 inches ;-)

I'm pretty sure you're kidding, but just in case somebody else doesn't know: because the plane of reflection is at the gutter and not at the nose of the rail, a ball must be a ball's width away from the rail before it presents a 4.5" target (itself plus its "reflection" in the rail). When it's frozen to the rail it presents only a normal 2.25" target.

pj
chgo

 

[mikepage]

I'm pretty sure you're kidding, but just in case somebody else doesn't know: because the plane of reflection is at the gutter and not at the nose of the rail, a ball must be a ball's width away from the rail before it presents a 4.5" target (itself plus its "reflection" in the rail). When it's frozen to the rail it presents only a normal 2.25" target.

pj
chgo

Forget the rail effect for a minute. When a cueball hits an object ball, there's a full ball width target from half-ball hit on the left to half-ball hit on the right. Then on top of that there's another half ball on either side. So the normal collision "cross section" is 4.5 inches wide.

No kidding I did this in class today for molecules... (except I called it a half-MOLECULE hit on the left when I was explaining it--and that was in three dimensions...)

-- then one of my Indian students named Ottscay Elay claimed a half-molecule hit was something else... I get no respect...

 

[McChen]

You said Wack-a-thon! LOL!!

Thanks Steve for the input. The bridge info made sense. It's actually why I chose the kick shot this weekend b/c the bridge makes everything so uncomfortable. Guess that means I'm suppose to go practice with a bridge right? Boo!

Thanks for the good info guys!!

getting good with the bridge takes practice, but it is well worth it, it will win you games! i used to play some snooker, and that really forces you to get comfortable with the bridge. watch the snooker players on tv and copy how they use the rest, they have great technique. that said, this 4 rail whack with the bridge would be tough for anyone!