>90 degree rail spin shots (SloMo)

[SloMoHolic]

I'm surprised anyone would have ever thought otherwise. I think an OB-first cut is possible from this set up but it would require a lot of swerve with a perfectly accurate hit- too accurate to actually attempt in play.

I think the key lies in understanding how much that rail compresses, and how efficient the inside spin can be at "torquing" the CB back off the rail. I could always tell the difference between a rail-first hit and a ball-first or simultaneous hit (in less extreme cut shots). But seeing how much that rail compresses, and how much that CB can "turn" coming off the rail makes it easier to comprehend.

Maybe one of our engineer-type AZB members could calculate the angle required to shoot the CB from position 3 and miss the OB on the way to the rail. The OB is centered 7.875" away from the short rail, and is frozen to the long rail. The CB is centered 5.625" away from the short rail, and is positioned along the center line (ball spotting line).

Whatever the answer is, I'm still surprised that the CB can "torque" off of that rail enough to make contact on the way out from the rail.

Just thinking out loud here...

-Blake

 

[SloMoHolic]

starting at about 1:29
#1 no CIT or CIS, OB caught from front, pushed against cushion

Tyler, over on OnePocket.org captured this screenshot of the moment of impact during shot #1:



I'm certainly not arguing with you, but if you say there is no CIT, I'm wondering how the OB could possibly run straight down the rail after the CB contacts it at such an angle.

Keep in mind, the inside spin would tend to throw the OB even more into the rail (if it had any effect at this speed).

Thanks for your help!

-Blake

 

[JC]

I'd sure like to see a video of someone that says they can make it hitting ball first! (and not using a masse' shot) I don't think it can be done.

Of course it can't. Every pool shot, no matter how cool it looks to our eye, obeys the rules of physics.

JC

 

[9-ball B]

ball first shot

The shot can be made from straight across(not below) with outside english, with the object ball frozen. I have made it many times. It is much more difficult but can be made.

 

[alphadog]

I posted this over on OnePocket.org, but I thought maybe some of my cohorts here on AZB would enjoy this video, and perhaps start a good discussion about what's happening.

I noticed that even though the true contact point should have overcut the OB back into the rail, the CIT ( collision-induced throw) not only offset the angle, but apparently, also the CIS (collision-induced spin), thus sending the OB home to its pocket.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw

Special thanks to Bill Smith, aka "Mr3cushion" for the challenge!

Thanks,

-Blake

Slomo thanks for posting
I would love to see ob middle diamond-long rail-90%+ shoot hard-ctr cb-rail compression cb rebound cuts ob down the rail No english rqrd!

 

[Bob Jewett]

The shot can be made from straight across(not below) with outside english, with the object ball frozen. I have made it many times. It is much more difficult but can be made.

I think it is possible but it would be good to have a video. A diamond from the pocket would be a good test and a nice proposition.

 

[Ed Wiggins]

Too Easy?

I posted this over on OnePocket.org, but I thought maybe some of my cohorts here on AZB would enjoy this video, and perhaps start a good discussion about what's happening.

I noticed that even though the true contact point should have overcut the OB back into the rail, the CIT ( collision-induced throw) not only offset the angle, but apparently, also the CIS (collision-induced spin), thus sending the OB home to its pocket.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw

Special thanks to Bill Smith, aka "Mr3cushion" for the challenge!

Thanks,

-Blake

Those shots must look easy if you're a German 14.1 player---
https://vimeo.com/68260325

Ed

 

[Jaden]

I made one similar...

I think it is possible but it would be good to have a video. A diamond from the pocket would be a good test and a nice proposition.

It was probably an 89 degree cut, playing bonus ball with Johnny Archer...

Jaden

 

[naji]

I posted this over on OnePocket.org, but I thought maybe some of my cohorts here on AZB would enjoy this video, and perhaps start a good discussion about what's happening.

I noticed that even though the true contact point should have overcut the OB back into the rail, the CIT ( collision-induced throw) not only offset the angle, but apparently, also the CIS (collision-induced spin), thus sending the OB home to its pocket.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw

Special thanks to Bill Smith, aka "Mr3cushion" for the challenge!

Thanks,

-Blake

Good job. Thanks.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Apologies if its been asked already...

Do you measure cut angles from the center of the CB, to the center of the OB, to the center of the pocket? Or do you go from center CB to center of GB to center of pocket?

In normal conversation I don't think it matters much, but when talking of 90 deg shots that approach the limits of what's possible, I think it matters that everyone is talking about the same thing.

 

[Neil]

Apologies if its been asked already...

Do you measure cut angles from the center of the CB, to the center of the OB, to the center of the pocket? Or do you go from center CB to center of GB to center of pocket?

In normal conversation I don't think it matters much, but when talking of 90 deg shots that approach the limits of what's possible, I think it matters that everyone is talking about the same thing.

If you freeze a cb and an ob on the rail and to each other, then take the cb and move it up table ninety degrees from the rail, you have a ninety degree cut.

 

[jersey jer]

I make this one.
OB is frozen just over a ball away from the pocket. (one ball and a finger from the pocket corner
cue ball is on the corner of those 2 diamonds at the foot of the table.
OB gets back cut into other corner pocket. any variation of the shot is great to have in the arsenal

 

[JB Cases]

I posted this over on OnePocket.org, but I thought maybe some of my cohorts here on AZB would enjoy this video, and perhaps start a good discussion about what's happening.

I noticed that even though the true contact point should have overcut the OB back into the rail, the CIT ( collision-induced throw) not only offset the angle, but apparently, also the CIS (collision-induced spin), thus sending the OB home to its pocket.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw

Special thanks to Bill Smith, aka "Mr3cushion" for the challenge!

Thanks,

-Blake

It happens so fast that you think it's hitting the rail and ball at the same time but actually the cue ball is banking the object ball into the pocket.

Pretty cool stuff!!

 

[dr_dave]

Do you measure cut angles from the center of the CB, to the center of the OB, to the center of the pocket? Or do you go from center CB to center of GB to center of pocket?

The cut angle is the angle between the line through the CB and GB centers and the line-of-centers through the GB and OB. Illustrations can be found in the following article:
“Aim, Align, Sight - Part I: Introduction and Ghost Ball Systems” (BD, June, 2011)

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

It happens so fast that you think it's hitting the rail and ball at the same time but actually the cue ball is banking the object ball into the pocket.

Usually, with extreme rail cuts like this, it works better to hit the cushion first, allowing the sidespin to "take" before hitting the ball. In this case the CB will come off the rail along the perpendicular tangent line. A good example of this approach is shown in this video: NV B.92 - "Impossible" cut shots, from VEPS V.

Having said this, there are many different things that can happen and still have this shot work (especially if the OB is close to the pocket). You can tell what is happening by observing the path of the CB after the hit. For those interested, super-slow-motion illustrations of pretty much everything that can happen with rail cut shots can be found here: rail cut shot resource page. Check them out.

Regards,
Dave

 

[ELBeau]

I make this one.
OB is frozen just over a ball away from the pocket. (one ball and a finger from the pocket corner
cue ball is on the corner of those 2 diamonds at the foot of the table.
OB gets back cut into other corner pocket. any variation of the shot is great to have in the arsenal

One of the locals makes a similar shot to yours with the cueball on top of the rail. Half a diamond away from the corner pocket..cue ball ON TOP OF THE RAIL..SICK..

 

[iusedtoberich]

One of the locals makes a similar shot to yours with the cueball on top of the rail. Half a diamond away from the corner pocket..cue ball ON TOP OF THE RAIL..SICK..

LOL that guy has some Fast Larry in him, lol. I think every one of us has made that exact shot for the cash I know I did:grin-square::grin-square: