The goal of promoters is to make money. They would hold cockroach races if there was money in it. In pool they are putting their money on pay per view, just like WWE and UFC. The latest trend is to run a closed shop like Barry Hearn and others If a player does not knuckle under they disappear. There are many top billiards players in england you will never here from because they pissed off the wrong people. Why do you think the pool players jumped all over bonus ball?
A blunt exchange of opinions on FB.
- Thread starter CreeDo
- Start date
Yeah I agree with you. But Rodney is a good example of what I'm trying to say: He's one of the most entertaining players in pro pool. He's relaxed, always smiling and joking, plays fast and loose, interacts with the audience, etc. Who cares if he made somebody mad with a Facebook post? Unfriend him. But I hope they don't blacklist one of the most entertaining players we have because of some petty personal issues.
To put it another way:
1. Not all bad behavior has entertainment value.
2. Even if it does have entertainment value, sometimes it goes beyond what you can reasonably expect your coworkers or the the guy that writes your paychecks to deal with. You yourself (whoever you are) wouldn't be willing to deal with most of these things from the guys you wrote the checks to either, or from your coworkers either for that matter.
3. The fact is that allowing the bad behavior from pool players hasn't worked so well for pool anyway. What we can all agree on is that it is time to try something new. That something new could be to clean up pool and get rid of it. Or it could be to actually encourage it even more and go for the no holds barred absolutely anything and everything goes model, but then you are back at #2, who wants to deal with getting grossly disrespected by the guys they are writing checks to, or even by their coworkers? I don't see the swarms of event producers crawling all over each other to deal with it. And you wouldn't want to either. But regardless, you have to respect that the man putting up tens of thousands of his own money and writing the checks gets to say for himself what he is willing to put up with. And the coworkers should all have a say as well, and the vast majority of the players we have heard from are tired of the players being allowed to mouth off, shark, be disrespectful, etc.
1. Not all bad behavior has entertainment value.
2. Even if it does have entertainment value, sometimes it goes beyond what you can reasonably expect your coworkers or the the guy that writes your paychecks to deal with. You yourself (whoever you are) wouldn't be willing to deal with most of these things from the guys you wrote the checks to either, or from your coworkers either for that matter.
3. The fact is that allowing the bad behavior from pool players hasn't worked so well for pool anyway. What we can all agree on is that it is time to try something new. That something new could be to clean up pool and get rid of it. Or it could be to actually encourage it even more and go for the no holds barred absolutely anything and everything goes model, but then you are back at #2, who wants to deal with getting grossly disrespected by the guys they are writing checks to, or even by their coworkers? I don't see the swarms of event producers crawling all over each other to deal with it. And you wouldn't want to either. But regardless, you have to respect that the man putting up tens of thousands of his own money and writing the checks gets to say for himself what he is willing to put up with. And the coworkers should all have a say as well, and the vast majority of the players we have heard from are tired of the players being allowed to mouth off, shark, be disrespectful, etc.
It happens all the time in other sports ,, however the players are protected by the players union ,, of course there is limits where fines and in extreme cases suspensions do happen ,,
The game will never get any better with the mindset that's in place now
Take a look at what's on TV now reality shows MMA team sports is turning hip hop
The personalities are far more marketable than the game itself and until someone figures out how to tap into that and market it you better have plenty money in your PP account to pay for all the PPV cause that's the best ur getting
1
...until he crossed the line from just being entertaining to maliciousness and an attempt to disrupt another's business.
I agree that Rodney is extremely entertaining. He is actually one of my favorite players, and one of my favorites to watch. But once you start crossing the line from just being entertaining, to being disrespectful and damaging to the guy that is writing your checks, you can't exactly expect that guy to turn a blind eye to it can you? You wouldn't accept what he did from anybody you wrote the checks to either, be honest with yourself. Zero chance.
This ^^^^^^^^
Shrinking Pie
The general public has no idea what is actually involved in playing pool. If the game is played perfectly, "All they're shooting at are nothing but easy shots!" is what the public sees. (My girlfriend was surprised to hear that the cue ball's motion could actually be controlled.) The high skills of the pros actually translates into the general public's boredom. Perfect pool has no drama. No drama, no interest. No interest, no large fan base. No large fan base, no money.
No money makes for the pros squabbling over what little cash there is. Self-interest dominates as does short term thinking (with a strong emphasis on deceit for immediate gain). Getting Through Today is a continual crisis. (Long term strategies are for the affluent.)
The affluence of media friendly sports like Football makes pool players wonder "If I'm in the pool elite, why aren't I rich? Aren't I entitled to be rich?"
No. You aren't.
Here's why: If 5000 people watch a free pool stream, it's considered a huge audience. Advertisers won't even yawn at such low numbers, so advertising dollars are virtually non-existent. So pool's money has to come out out of some individual's pocket. After a while these people get tired of being hustled and conned and stop whatever they're doing in pool. (The Pheasant Run Tourneys of the early 90's sponsored by Willard of Willard Tappers, ceased after three years because Willard got sick of having the pool players running up charges such as rounds of golf, etc. and then leaving him to cover their bill.)
Who deserves money? No one. How does money get generated? Usually by providing a good or service someone else would pay for. Unless, of course, you're thinking short term. Then it's easiest to steal it.
Tom
The general public has no idea what is actually involved in playing pool. If the game is played perfectly, "All they're shooting at are nothing but easy shots!" is what the public sees. (My girlfriend was surprised to hear that the cue ball's motion could actually be controlled.) The high skills of the pros actually translates into the general public's boredom. Perfect pool has no drama. No drama, no interest. No interest, no large fan base. No large fan base, no money.
No money makes for the pros squabbling over what little cash there is. Self-interest dominates as does short term thinking (with a strong emphasis on deceit for immediate gain). Getting Through Today is a continual crisis. (Long term strategies are for the affluent.)
The affluence of media friendly sports like Football makes pool players wonder "If I'm in the pool elite, why aren't I rich? Aren't I entitled to be rich?"
No. You aren't.
Here's why: If 5000 people watch a free pool stream, it's considered a huge audience. Advertisers won't even yawn at such low numbers, so advertising dollars are virtually non-existent. So pool's money has to come out out of some individual's pocket. After a while these people get tired of being hustled and conned and stop whatever they're doing in pool. (The Pheasant Run Tourneys of the early 90's sponsored by Willard of Willard Tappers, ceased after three years because Willard got sick of having the pool players running up charges such as rounds of golf, etc. and then leaving him to cover their bill.)
Who deserves money? No one. How does money get generated? Usually by providing a good or service someone else would pay for. Unless, of course, you're thinking short term. Then it's easiest to steal it.
Tom
So if you had a business, and one of the guys that you wrote the checks for was disrespecting you and trying to bad mouth your business, you would accept that behavior from him just because some random guy on the internet said you should? I don't think you would accept it no matter what. So why are you expecting Mark to accept it?
^^^ This
LOL Really BB? """officious''''''. Guess you went 'all the way' in school..huh!?!?
Why aren't there moderators on here?
there are. But their decisions on who to censure and when are completely up to them and not at all under the control of the person being attacked. Thus if a pro comes on here and gives his opinion and six trolls jump him then he has to endure that. On facebook the pro controls it to a greater degree simply by deleting the comments and people who troll him.
Let's state this right, he's not writing out checks to Rodney per say. He is writing out
checks to all who finish in the money. If Rodney or any other player has a couple of bad days at a tournament, they get nothing except a sh*t load of expenses.
I know it sounds good for your argument to say that, but fact is fact.
It's Mark's tournament and he can do what he likes, personally I would have
suspended Rodney for a couple of tournaments, and had a sit down with him.
I THINK THIS WHOLE TO DO ABOUT POOL BEING IN THE SHAPE IT IS
BECAUSE OF THE PLAYERS IS ABSURD.
People are grasping at straws as to the problems with Pool, and the players are an easy target as their association is weak because they don't stand together as one.
The powers that be the BCA sit in the back ground and seem to get no heat at all.
While they don't lift a finger to help Professional Pool. If the finger pointers need someone to point a finger at they should start here.
This thread has turned into a joke in my opinion, a long with all the others where people are using the players as a scape goat.
Let Mark do what he wants and I wish him success. While I may not like or agree with the Rodney situation, I would have to say Mark runs his events professionally.
As far as the other big names in the industry, they should work together, not each going their own way.
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This changes nothing and is immaterial. But since you somehow think it makes a difference, let me rephrase my question. "So if you had a business where you employed individual contractors on a contract basis where they got paid commission only when they met certain performance criteria, and one of your individual contractors was disrespecting you and trying to bad mouth your business, you would accept that behavior from him just because some random guy on the internet said you should? I don't think you would accept it no matter what. So why are you expecting Mark to accept it?"
I call BS. Major BS. You are so blinded by your bias of wanting to see Rodney play so badly that you can't even be honest with yourself about how you would react if you were actually in this position. If you had a business and one of your individual contractors disrespected you and then tried to publicly bad mouth and harm your business, there is zero chance they would continue being an independent contractor for you. Zero.
And contrary to what you claim, if there was any chance you might have them back again at some point in the future, it sure wouldn't be for a while, and not until they had publicly apologized and retracted what they said about you and your business, and after you were sure that they really did have a change of heart and it would not be something that they would ever do again.
And to my knowledge, Mark nor CSI has ever said that Rodney is barred for life from CSI events anyway. It is quite possible that Rodney could salvage the mess he created enough that CSI would give him another chance in the future. But also to my knowledge, Rodney hasn't made even the slightest effort to do so.
Well this is a whole separate issue from whether or not you would allow one of your individual contractors to disrespect you and publicly try to harm your business and still keep them on board as one of the individual contractors your worked with.
But to address this separate issue, many of the fans are tired of the bad behavior, most of the pros are tired of the bad behavior, and all of the promoters putting on the events are tired of the bad behavior. Pretty good reason enough for it to be put to a stop.
Pool did pretty well when the bad behavior didn't exist and the pros acted professional. In the era of the bad behavior pool has not done well at all. This is no proof that that bad behavior caused pool to fail, but it is certainly proof that pool doesn't need bad behavior to do well. And it at least gives a logical person reason to wonder about and consider if the bad behavior did contribute to the failure or not.
Plus you are thinking ONLY in terms of the fan's experience. From the fan's perspective the pro's misbehaviors probably has less effect on them that it does on others even though it is driving some of them off too. But there is zero doubt that the pro's are driving off some of the promoters who are putting on the events. Some of the promoters have said themselves that they were tired of dealing with it and it just isn't worth the hassle. And promoters being tired of the BS leads to less promoters, who are putting on less events, which guess what, directly affects pool and directly contributes, in a very substantial way, to its overall decline. It also means there is less pool for you to watch. If you don't think that some of the pros behaviors have had a significant effect on pool in one way or another then you are out of your mind.
But if you are that convinced that bad behavior is so great for pool and you are a sucker for punishment who likes to work with people will complain about everything and then turn around and publicly bad mouth you and your business, all while you are the one directly responsible for putting money in their pocket, then you should start a tour and encourage all the bad behavior they can manage. It will be the savior that revives pool and will be a fantastic money maker and you will reap the enormous rewards and become a wealthy man. When is your first event? Until you do start doing your events, the man that actually is putting on the events is going to do what he feels is best both for his company, and for pool in general. When it is time for your events I would expect that you are going to do no less than what you feel is best for your company and pool in general. I wouldn't expect you to go against what you thought was best for your own company and for pool when putting on the events with your own time and money just because some random guy on the internet like me felt you were wrong and that you should do it another way.
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Just in case anyone missed it hatch and Morris had to break some kind of record for saying **** on LIVE TV while REPRESENTING THE USA. I like Rodney and I really like Dennis but what they did dug their own grave as far as I'm concerned. You can't embarrass your country like that on the biggest stage pool has and not expect something in return. They were a total disgrace. I was embarassed while I watched it.
Best post in the thread! Most accurate post in the thread, as well. :smile:
takeitdown
Banned
Pro pool
Turning pro pool into the scene from Titanic where there aren't enough boats for asses is a shame. 16 player invitationals are great for Mr. Griffin and others. Less hassle, less expense. How do you grow the game by limiting fields? What about the 100 or so well behaved up a coming players who dream of winning a big event or the mild mannered 50 year old pro looking to make a comeback? Guess we won't be seeing those stories anytime some. So keep driving pro pool down to $2000-4000 3 day streamed grinds that only a few hundred hard core folks will buy. Pool is a fringe sport anyway. All the blame can't be placed on a few ill behaved pros. BTW some of the biggest jerks in pool have been some of it's biggest stars.
Turning pro pool into the scene from Titanic where there aren't enough boats for asses is a shame. 16 player invitationals are great for Mr. Griffin and others. Less hassle, less expense. How do you grow the game by limiting fields? What about the 100 or so well behaved up a coming players who dream of winning a big event or the mild mannered 50 year old pro looking to make a comeback? Guess we won't be seeing those stories anytime some. So keep driving pro pool down to $2000-4000 3 day streamed grinds that only a few hundred hard core folks will buy. Pool is a fringe sport anyway. All the blame can't be placed on a few ill behaved pros. BTW some of the biggest jerks in pool have been some of it's biggest stars.
takeitdown
Banned
Not amongst other pros named JOHNNY ARCHER and others...no. Plus he don't take $hit like others do,
Why would a contractor behave like this is a better question???
My understanding and answer to this question is the contractor has a conflict of interest as part owner/player of bonus ball. Felt undermining the competition was a good idea since they were all in the bonus ball wagon.
With Bca league profitable they want Mark to exit the pro market and starve/force bonus ball down the fans throat as the only game in town!!!
Creating a Bonus ball monopoly in pro pool. Contractor thinking it would make the players rich! This is why he flipped out in my opinion upset because Mark was/is in the way!!! Mark = Villain in contractors eyes despite cashing big.
Kd
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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BRussell: I hope you don't mind, but I did a little editing of your post. I think the two remaining statements are very closely related.
Roger