A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup
- Thread starter NYC cue dude
- Start date
It does get aired JAM -- look at the threads on Bonus Ball, US Open payouts, the people in Galveston, going back further to KT, Charlie Williams threads. Those are just quick thoughts off the top of my head.
BTW - read about the head coach of Penn State football and his experience prior as a head coach and the situation he was thrown into. Read about what he has been able to accomplish.
BTW - read about the head coach of Penn State football and his experience prior as a head coach and the situation he was thrown into. Read about what he has been able to accomplish.
That ain't nothing compared to what's right out there in plain sight, and nobody utters a peep. Nobody!
As Mark said, there is plenty of blame to go around.
But the pro's are the ones in the spotlight, on the streams, in front of the audiences, and for The Mosconi Cup...on TV. That is why when they act poorly, it casts a much bigger shadow. For better, and for worse.
The industry types that behave poorly reflect badly as well. But that doesn't create nearly as bad an impression, as they aren't in front of as many people, and thus don't affect pools image as directly.
The impact is far greater when the players ARE the promoters, and when they group together in a clique that controls things like who gets invited to events, how much added money is required, seeding, etc...
Yes, the players impact is greater, in the current environment. And if the image doesn't change, the product will not grow. Or perhaps even survive.
The players may be out in the public, but it's those big egos behind the scenes that need the 24/7/365 massaging that I see as the bump in the road to greener pastures in the American pool world.
So because there are promoters and other non-player industry people who are dirty we should stop discussing the players acting poorly?
Yes, that was much closer. I hope Europe has to at least catch up to us before the USA is excluded from the MC. Right now our overall record vs Europe is USA 11 Europe 9. If they do exclude the USA from the Mosconi cup and insert the Philipines or whoever, I agree with JAM, it should be renamed. Maybe the Efren Reyes Cup or whatever..It would be quite weird to name a foreign tournament after an american pool legend...especially if americans aren't even involved in it
NYC cue dude
Banned
Yes, that was much closer. I hope Europe has to at least catch up to us before the USA is excluded from the MC. Right now our overall record vs Europe is USA 11 Europe 9. If they do exclude the USA from the Mosconi cup and insert the Philipines or whoever, I agree with JAM, it should be renamed. Maybe the Efren Reyes Cup or whatever..It would be quite weird to name a foreign tournament after an american pool legend...especially if americans aren't even involved in it
The mosconi cup was created by a British subject and produced by a British company. The legend of Mosconi doesn't belong to any one country.
If America is no longer represented in the Mosconi Cup, look no further than team 2013 for the reason.
Oh, I didn't know that
..That's awesome!! I'm glad they didn't beat our 12-1 record, that would have really been painful. I guess it will still be fine to have the tournament named after an American legend..NYC cue dude
Banned
Oh, I didn't know that
Whether team America is ever invited back, or not, has nothing to do with the final score. Even less to do with competitive balance. You're being obtuse in your selective omission of acknowledging the putrid behavior that was on display for all the world to see. Part of that world was Matchroom's sponsors. Those are the ones that matter most to Barry Hearn, who, btw, was mortified by what he saw.
Perhaps you should reread my initial post of this thread.
It's one tournament, but a very big one!! I am sure we will survive whatever the decision is. I didn't know you worked so closely with Barry Hearn and hear what he has to say with all his business. I am learning as we go here
. Whatever his decision is will not effect my high regard and respect for Barry Hearn. He is a genius and a very solid guy...I can see you have a deep hate for America and our players, but that is your right also. I actually think for the most part all the players are all friends away from the table. The rivary seems to be with the fans more than the players. Worst case scenerio is you guys will play the filipino's for the ???? Cup....
It's one tournament, but a very big one!! I am sure we will survive whatever the decision is. I didn't know you worked so closely with Barry Hearn and hear what he has to say with all his business. I am learning as we go here
Hi Mark,
I don't believe NYC Randy has a deep hate for the players. I belive he has huge passion for pro pool and has disdain for the state it is in. And he carries a voice worth listening to. He is p1ssed off, as are many. No worries though, the BCA and WPA are here to save pro pool.
This factor MUST be present and it is painfully lacking in pool.
The only ones in America that will ever know the Mosconi Cup changed to the Efren Cup is us, the current pool enthusiasts.....our strategy MUST be revamped to draw new people into the game like we were doing in the late 80s and early 90s.....we need people that don't know "Mosconi" from "Macaroni".
Like any business, it's important to keep your current clientele satisfied, but when your business is failing it's MORE important to pick a target market and go after them.....hook, line and sinker (with some macaroni attached). I believe that market is the older demographic in America, not the younger one, and they are affluent.
Pool, like golf and tennis is an individual game.....then team formats can be added.
There are several components that are missing from our current presentation of pool. The main one is the lack of the "challenge" or "dare" factor. This creates the emotional attachment to all sports whether its' the "4th and goal with 20 seconds" in football, the "clinch 5 foot putt for birdy" in golf, the "must make 3 pointer with 5 seconds" in basketball, or the "ALL IN" on the last card in poker......this factor MUST be present and it is painfully lacking in pool.
The good news is there's ways to create this situation, changes in the rules have to be made to accomplish it (coupled with a few other alterations in production)..... really though, is this such a hassle or too much to ask?
The rules have "evolved" though the years to speed up play and even out the competition so no one dominates......is this a good way for a sport to evolve? ........obviously not. No other sport has ever done this type of "tinkering" and the reasons are simple, it ultimately implodes and loses it's entertainment value. 'The Game is {trying to be} the Teacher'
Yes, that was much closer. I hope Europe has to at least catch up to us before the USA is excluded from the MC. Right now our overall record vs Europe is USA 11 Europe 9. If they do exclude the USA from the Mosconi cup and insert the Philipines or whoever, I agree with JAM, it should be renamed. Maybe the Efren Reyes Cup or whatever..It would be quite weird to name a foreign tournament after an american pool legend...especially if americans aren't even involved in it
The only ones in America that will ever know the Mosconi Cup changed to the Efren Cup is us, the current pool enthusiasts.....our strategy MUST be revamped to draw new people into the game like we were doing in the late 80s and early 90s.....we need people that don't know "Mosconi" from "Macaroni".
Like any business, it's important to keep your current clientele satisfied, but when your business is failing it's MORE important to pick a target market and go after them.....hook, line and sinker (with some macaroni attached). I believe that market is the older demographic in America, not the younger one, and they are affluent.
Pool, like golf and tennis is an individual game.....then team formats can be added.
There are several components that are missing from our current presentation of pool. The main one is the lack of the "challenge" or "dare" factor. This creates the emotional attachment to all sports whether its' the "4th and goal with 20 seconds" in football, the "clinch 5 foot putt for birdy" in golf, the "must make 3 pointer with 5 seconds" in basketball, or the "ALL IN" on the last card in poker......this factor MUST be present and it is painfully lacking in pool.
The good news is there's ways to create this situation, changes in the rules have to be made to accomplish it (coupled with a few other alterations in production)..... really though, is this such a hassle or too much to ask?
The rules have "evolved" though the years to speed up play and even out the competition so no one dominates......is this a good way for a sport to evolve? ........obviously not. No other sport has ever done this type of "tinkering" and the reasons are simple, it ultimately implodes and loses it's entertainment value. 'The Game is {trying to be} the Teacher'
Well actually, professional sports such as baseball and football HAVE incorporated new rules into their games in the past few years to speed the game up....and as far as evening out the competition goes...why the heck do you think they let the worst teams draft first??? Do you actually believe that MLB and the NFL want the same team/teams to dominate year in and year out? Do you really believe MLB and the NFL want the games to last longer?
I don't think so.
As far as pool goes...it is hard to watch sometimes...even for an enthusiast like myself. I don't think that long, drawn-out games/matches is going to appeal to the masses. People today are always in a hurry for everything...always wanting quick results. I just can't see a chess-like pool match holding the attention of viewers in today's times. And there you go.....how often do you see CHESS on television...and what kind of ratings do you think that would get? We don't need pool to be the slow deliberate game it must be to be played correctly...on television...at least not in it's purest form. Something faster with quicker end-results is the only way it will have a chance to survive on television...if even then.
But then....I could be wrong!!! :wink:
Maniac
Well actually, professional sports such as baseball and football HAVE incorporated new rules into their games in the past few years to speed the game up....and as far as evening out the competition goes...why the heck do you think they let the worst teams draft first??? Do you actually believe that MLB and the NFL want the same team/teams to dominate year in and year out? Do you really believe MLB and the NFL want the games to last longer?
I don't think so.
As far as pool goes...it is hard to watch sometimes...even for an enthusiast like myself. I don't think that long, drawn-out games/matches is going to appeal to the masses. People today are always in a hurry for everything...always wanting quick results. I just can't see a chess-like pool match holding the attention of viewers in today's times. And there you go.....how often do you see CHESS on television...and what kind of ratings do you think that would get? We don't need pool to be the slow deliberate game it must be to be played correctly...on television...at least not in it's purest form. Something faster with quicker end-results is the only way it will have a chance to survive on television...if even then.
But then....I could be wrong!!! :wink:
Maniac
Thanks for this. I think 9-Ball in it's present form with the nine racked on the spot, breaking from the box and playing Texas Express works quite well on television. It's fast paced and yet there are twists and turns to most every rack. There is a good reason why Matchroom has continued to use 9-Ball in all their productions.
Same reason why the Bigfoot Ten Ball will never evolve into a call shot nightmare that takes away the most exciting elements of the game. "Shoot again on a missed shot" is another bad example of taking the game in the wrong direction. I say let luck play a part, small though it is. There's bad bounces in all sports, why all the endless attempts to sanitize that out of pool.
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Another idea to make it work on tv would be playing more than one match at a time. This way, you could always swing over to a guy making a hard shot or something like that. In golf, they don't just follow one group all day, they are always switching and showing good shots and keeping you updated on other matches. I'm not sure how this would work in Mosconi format, just a suggestion for something different because I would love to see live pool on tv and the players getting paid.
Andy
Andy
Agreed! Wouldn't it be great to have two or even four matches going at a time, all covered by different cameras like they do with golf and tennis.
Here's my outrageous prediction for all of you. One day that time will come when pool will be so popular on television/internet that you will actually see just this, multiple tables with all great players battling down to the conclusion of a major tournament! I truly believe it will happen one day. I just hope I'm here to see it. :wink:
P.S. Hey, they put a man on the moon!
The two table TV format was tried a couple of times at the Ultimate 9-ball event played in Orlando about fifteen years ago.
