A. Fisher still #1

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Why do you think that A. Fisher is not as dominant lately?

Better competition?

Single elimination in the final 16?

Getting long in the tooth?

Concentrating more on 8-ball and the IPT?


I think if Jasmine and X Pan played in all the WPBA tournaments you’d have a different winner just about every time.

Johnnyt
 
Never under estimate Allison. She is still the best. Wait till she starts to practice :) Even if Jasmin proves to be better, it would take some time before she could take the crown. Allison has been the benchmark for over 10 years, she will give up that easy.

Allison still has the best fundamentals in pool.

facets--
 
facets58 said:
Never under estimate Allison. She is still the best. Wait till she starts to practice :) Even if Jasmin proves to be better, it would take some time before she could take the crown. Allison has been the benchmark for over 10 years, she will give up that easy.

Allison still has the best fundamentals in pool.

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I agree to a point. You have to admit that there are at least 4 that are very capable of beating her now. Probably more like 6. Johnnyt

PS. and this Jasmin has very good fundamentals too.
 
I agree that the competition for the WPBA top spot has gotten stiffer. However, Allison has demonstrated consistency above and beyond that of her chief adversaries over the years. For the past decade, when she hasn't been victorious, Allison is very rarely out of the top 4 finishes in any WPBA tournament. Those who've been groomed to knock Allison off her pedestal, even Karen, have yet to match that kind of top-notch, consistent play. In their defense, some of these contenders are relatively new to the pro tour so haven't had that much time to establish a reliable track record, especially XPT and Jasmin. I guess we'll know over time, and I suppose time could only hurt Allison at this point.


sdtonyc
 
Karen and Jasmin are knocking on the door, and Kelly Fisher and Ga Young Kim are also close... Maybe Monica Webb and Jeanette, but there still appears to be a gap between Allison and the rest... for now.

I think Jasmin will pose the biggest threat, then Karen. It's a coin flip between Kelly and Ga Young. With what Jasmin has accomplished in the last 4 months, she could be the best female of all time. Only time will tell.

facets--
 
facets58 said:
Karen and Jasmin are knocking on the door, and Kelly Fisher and Ga Young Kim are also close... Maybe Monica Webb and Jeanette, but there still appears to be a gap between Allison and the rest... for now.

I think Jasmin will pose the biggest threat, then Karen. It's a coin flip between Kelly and Ga Young. With what Jasmin has accomplished in the last 4 months, she could be the best female of all time. Only time will tell.

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Its way too early to tout jasmin as one of the best players of all time.lets see if we even remember her name in 5 to 6 years.
 
I didn't start this thread to put down A. Fisher's talent. She is a a great player and has been for a long time. The two times I've met her she was nice and very funny. I don't think she's going to move over any time soon either. Johnnyt
 
FYI: Allison is not that long in the tooth, she just turned 38 this year, more than 10 years younger than Reyes and just a few months older than Barretta.

And I do think Jasmine is an amazing talent and a great example of what grooming a gifted kid, to play serious pool, from a young age...as they do reguarly in many other sports, can produce. Since, it has been reported she has been playing pool since she was 3, she has a good 4 years on Allison who did not start until 94', if I am not mistaken.
 
why not let jasmine win more then 1 tourny before you make her number 1 in the world...theres alot of players that win 1 tourny and dont get there again
 
I think it's almost entirely a matter of stronger competition. For example, young Pan Xiaoting has played Allison four times this year, and probably should have won three of those encounters (Pan failed to complete a very simple runout at 8-8 in the BCA Open in Vegas). Jasmin Ouschan also dealt
Allison a tough loss at the BCA Open. Jennifer Barreta beat Allison at WPBA Florida and nearly beat her a second time in the same event. I', sure there are several others who have played Allison very tough recently. In short, Allison has to play more tough matches than ever before. The competition has toughened, so let's give the ladies of the WPBA credit.

Allison is the best female nine ball player ever, but her edge over Karen Corr is fully attributable to titles won prior to Karen Corr's arrival on the WPBA tour. I wonder if there's a greater myth in sports than Allison Fisher's supposed dominance of Karen Corr. The first year Karen Corr played the entire WPBA tour was 2000. Since 1/1/2000, there have been 50 WPBA rankings events (to clarify, a rankings event is one in which a player can earn points that will count toward their WPBA ranking.) Of those 50 events, Karen Corr has won 21 titles and Allison Fisher has won 20. It just baffles me how many subscribe to the fiction that Allison has dominated this rivalry.

Allison is still magnificent, and will always be a symbol of sustained excellence in women's pro pool.
 
sjm said:
Allison is the best female nine ball player ever, but her edge over Karen Corr is fully attributable to titles won prior to Karen Corr's arrival on the WPBA tour.
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I agree. The only billiards I've watched in the past decade is on tv. I would like to have seen more of the men play, but they'd always show the women on ESPN. I saw Corr when she first began playing regularly at that level, and it was not long before I believed she was better than Fisher - not by much, but better, or at the very least just as good. I don't think it's worth arguing. Both of them have an unflappable quality that I admire, probably stemming from their snooker background. I haven't seen too much of the younger female players, but in my view Fisher and Corr were on a level of their own far above that of the others including Jeanette Lee.

Also, someone in this thread mentioned that Fisher didn't start playing until 1990 or something like that. I'm sure that person is talking about 9 ball, not all cue games. I have no idea when Fisher began playing snooker, but I'd guess it was long before 1990. Anyway, Fisher and Corr deserve what they've earned for themselves, but they're lucky they were in the women's league (here we go again), where they could dominate the small field. Now maybe it's getting tougher, but they've already got theirs and they won't have to deal with it on a direct level. JMO

Tommy Joe
 
sjm said:
I think it's almost entirely a matter of stronger competition. For example, young Pan Xiaoting has played Allison four times this year, and probably should have won three of those encounters (Pan failed to complete a very simple runout at 8-8 in the BCA Open in Vegas). Jasmin Ouschan also dealt
Allison a tough loss at the BCA Open. Jennifer Barreta beat Allison at WPBA Florida and nearly beat her a second time in the same event. I', sure there are several others who have played Allison very tough recently. In short, Allison has to play more tough matches than ever before. The competition has toughened, so let's give the ladies of the WPBA credit.

Allison is the best female nine ball player ever, but her edge over Karen Corr is fully attributable to titles won prior to Karen Corr's arrival on the WPBA tour. I wonder if there's a greater myth in sports than Allison Fisher's supposed dominance of Karen Corr. The first year Karen Corr played the entire WPBA tour was 2000. Since 1/1/2000, there have been 50 WPBA rankings events (to clarify, a rankings event is one in which a player can earn points that will count toward their WPBA ranking.) Of those 50 events, Karen Corr has won 21 titles and Allison Fisher has won 20. It just baffles me how many subscribe to the fiction that Allison has dominated this rivalry.

Allison is still magnificent, and will always be a symbol of sustained excellence in women's pro pool.
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Great post sjm. And I didn't know Karen was ahead of Allision in titles since she came over here. Johnnyt
 
sjm said:
Of those 50 events, Karen Corr has won 21 titles and Allison Fisher has won 20. It just baffles me how many subscribe to the fiction that Allison has dominated this rivalry.
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SJM,
I've heard several people explain it as "1 bad year for Allison." During that year after Allison's father passed away; didn't Karen win all 8 tournaments? If Allison was not playing her best that year (and certainly I do NOT know if this is true, just heard it mentioned by a pro player), then the record would be something like Allison 20, Karen 13. Certainly not "dominating", but still a nice edge. Just a thought; maybe we shouldn't penalize Allison quite so severely for 1 off-year.
 
Maybe just going through a phase where there is a lapse of motivation and focus, after all she's been laserlike for quite a while. I wouldn't write her off just yet.
 
Williebetmore said:
SJM,

I've heard several people explain it as "1 bad year for Allison." During that year after Allison's father passed away; didn't Karen win all 8 tournaments? If Allison was not playing her best that year (and certainly I do NOT know if this is true, just heard it mentioned by a pro player), then the record would be something like Allison 20, Karen 13. Certainly not "dominating", but still a nice edge. Just a thought; maybe we shouldn't penalize Allison quite so severely for 1 off-year.
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I really growing tired of those in this forum who attempt to use the passing of Allison's dad as an explanation or excuse for her losing the #1 ranking in 2001. To suggest that Karen's gaining of #1 was somehow devalued by the, admittedly sad, passing of Allison's father is ridiculous. FYI, Karen Corr's dad, sadly, died in October of 2003. Karen won both of the WPBA events prior to her father's passing. I've yet to hear anyone suggest that it devalues Allison's accomplishment of winning the next three WPBA events after the passing of Karen's father. Obviously, it doesn’t.

FYI, Karen's title count was 6 in 2001. If you think that those titles shouldn't count, and it's not clear why you would, then you'll surely want to deduct the 3 that Allison won while Karen played with a heavy heart. That would make the "heavy-heart-adjusted" title count 17-15, still just about even. As stated previously, this rivalry has been pretty close to dead even since Karen gained her WPBA touring pro status.

It's time to give Karen Corr her due. Her record is comparable to Allison's since she joined the WPBA tour, regardless of how some wish to view it.
 
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sjm said:
Allison is the best female nine ball player ever, but her edge over Karen Corr is fully attributable to titles won prior to Karen Corr's arrival on the WPBA tour. I wonder if there's a greater myth in sports than Allison Fisher's supposed dominance of Karen Corr. The first year Karen Corr played the entire WPBA tour was 2000. Since 1/1/2000, there have been 50 WPBA rankings events (to clarify, a rankings event is one in which a player can earn points that will count toward their WPBA ranking.) Of those 50 events, Karen Corr has won 21 titles and Allison Fisher has won 20. It just baffles me how many subscribe to the fiction that Allison has dominated this rivalry.

Allison is still magnificent, and will always be a symbol of sustained excellence in women's pro pool.
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Hmm.. According to the WPBA archives from 2000 up until the latest 2006 event, I counted Allison having won 23 and Karen 21. Nevertheless, I don't think that this in any way refutes your argument--those stats are indicative of two comparable players. I guess my argument about consistency stemmed from comparing their tournament finishes (champion or not) over the course of all WPBA events since Karen's inception into the pro tour. Allison never finished less than 5-6 except once (she finished 9-12); Karen finished below that range three times (13-16, 33-48, and 9-16).
But looking at this in retrospect, we're talking about a total of 31 tournaments so I'll be the first to admit that, in light of that sample size, a difference of two, non top-eight finishes is not that significant a discrepancy. I have to rescind my "above and beyond" statement with regards to Karen Corr. Her and Allison have pretty much shared the throne for a while now. The newest contenders have yet to prove themselves.
 
And Karen is actually doing well now at Turning Stone, which includes the men. Jeanette must be hot, she is still in! Congrats to both of them.
 
sdtonyc said:
Hmm.. According to the WPBA archives from 2000 up until the latest 2006 event, I counted Allison having won 23 and Karen 21.
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Actually, the WPBA archives are not complete. For example, the 2002 Brunswick NY classic is not listed. Second, not all events listed on WPBA.COM are rankings events. Events such as the Tournament of Champions, the WPBA Amateur Nationals, and the WPA World Championship, though listed, are not WPBA rankings events. Trust me, since 1/1/2000, the title count in WPBA rankings events (which are the only events in which all WPBA touring pros compete) is Karen 21, Allison 20.
 
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