A hope for the future

Jerry Forsyth

Well-known member
I see a lot of threads on the boards that condemn the IPT as the 800-pd gorilla that is crushing other promoters. But I see it differently. Just as Efren raised the level of play for the men and Allison did for the ladies, the IPT is just raising the bar.

The future is far from dim for other event planners. They can learn from what Trudeau is doing and adapt his techniques to improve their own events. For one thing, the IPT makes no bones about the role of television exposure. They know it is crucial for success.

Other promoters may not have the resources to beam their events around the world on regular TV, but technology is fast bringing us the day when our televisions and computers interact seamlessly. Soon we will all be able to use our remotes to choose between standard cable programs or internet programs. Promoters will be able reach a huge audience by just mounting a single camera at the foot end of the table and an overhead. No commentators are really required. You don't have commentators when you are at an event and they are not missed.

As technology eases and cheapens this process all promoters will be able to gain the exposure required to draw the sponsors needed to compete with IPT paydays.

I see the IPT as much as a blessing as a threat to existing tournaments. Competition is always good for business. It makes you improve your product and explore new markets. It eliminates laziness and rewards creativity. Short-term conflicts may wound and even eradicate some tours but their absence will soon be filled by others. Perhaps we can look forward to a new age of pool.

As for the danger of Trudeau branding his players and forbidding them from playing in other events, well, that is what I would do if I were him. But if he succeeds in his efforts he will inspire young players to work and improve and other tours will have a large field of future stars to develop around. And there are ways to draw players and fans to new arenas. I, for one, would love to see the old idea of World Team Billiards revived. I would like to cheer a four-player Team America against Team China or Team Germany. Trudeau cannot possibly cover all the possible bases of interest out there and so I see lots of room available for those with the imagination to create events of interest.

For me, I hope to see all promoters succeed. When promoters make money the players also make money and the fans are treated to the best experience. Best of luck to all of them and all of you.

I hope to live to see the day when pool has erased the ridiculous stigma it has carried since the depression and is recognized as the beautiful marriage of art, tactics and geometry that it truly is. May you as well.

As I prepare to post this I cannot help but wonder if it will bring the body-slammers out of the woodwork. I fail to understand the joy that so many seem to gain by attempting to humiliate others.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
...As I prepare to post this I cannot help but wonder if it will bring the body-slammers out of the woodwork. I fail to understand the joy that so many seem to gain by attempting to humiliate others.

Well, you ain't gonna get a body-slam out of me! Instead, I'll give you a resounding Internet "tap, tap, tap." :)

It is disappointing for me to read some of the previously-posted IPT bashings, the majority of which are written by folks standing on the outside looking in. It has been said in some circles that "they don't have a clue" as to how the IPT has given a boost to the sport. :o

As I post on this thread, I too am wondering if the "regular" antagonist(s) will attempt to sabotage. :(

Never thought I'd see these two men of action dressed in a DESIGNER suit and tie. The one on the left used to shop in thrift shops when he was on the road. The light blue jacket he is wearing in the picture is Nautica and was tailored to fit him like a tee. :D

Thanks to the IPT, these two players have a renewed sense of enthusiasm and are currently enjoying real pool, real rules, and real money. :D

JAM
 

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I agree with JAM 100% a good ole fashion TAP TAP TAP in sure in order here its so refreshing to see some good postive discussions about the IPT. I have always been supportive of the IPT but usually remain silent due the the fact i dont take kindly to negative posters, and i had to bite my tongue many times to keep from saying to them what i'd like to. Anyways it's great always to hear from JAM and how things are going for Keith being from Calif myself we still look to Keith as one of ours.Thank you Jerry and Jam
PS. a few rep points are also in order here i think, sorry Jam but i gota spread some around before they will let me give you anymore.
 
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Jam let me be the first to slam

Are you saying somebody paid real money for the tie on that guy on the right"?

Sorry, couldn't resist! :D :D :D

Hu



JAM said:
Never thought I'd see these two men of action dressed in a DESIGNER suit and tie. The one on the left used to shop in thrift shops when he was on the road. The light blue jacket he is wearing in the picture is Nautica and was tailored to fit him like a tee. :D

Thanks to the IPT, these two players have a renewed sense of enthusiasm and are currently enjoying real pool, real rules, and real money. :D

JAM
 
ShootingArts said:
Are you saying somebody paid real money for the tie on that guy on the right"?

Sorry, couldn't resist! :D :D :D

LOL! :D

How about Ralf's pin-striped suit in this snapshot, taken before the players' meeting! :p

BTW, each player was given an N.A. 8-Ball Championship duffle bag with their names embroidered on them. They were full of neat stuff, a N.A. Championship hat and shirt, CDs, DVDs, coffee mug, and other cool items. The players were definitely digging these goodie bags. Between the green room, media coverage, and The Venetian's magnificant ballroom, it was nothing but FIRST CLASS all the way. :)

Gold star goes out to who can name the other two European players in this picture with Souquet on the right. :o

JAM
 

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Look at the PGA

How many mini tours has the PGA spawned??

When you throw a big rock like the IPT in the middle of the lake who knows how far and where the ripples will end up.

It's going to be fun to watch!!
 
NYC cue dude said:
eckert and santl = both germans

Gold star for you, NYC Cue Dude! That was quick. The German contingency is putting up a STRONG front in recent times on the tournament trail, with Thorsten leading the way.

Here's a shot of a few members of the Ohio contingency. You should have seen Corey's matching shoes with this white suit. I actually think some of the players are enjoying dressing professionally. Howard Vickery on the left and fellow Ohio native Dee Adkins on the right. Dee played VERY WELL in Vegas last week! He has quite a few young ones in his family, and I'm sure his winnings will come in very handy.

JAM
 

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yep

I noticed Ralf's suit earlier myself. Watching some of these guys on TV all decked out did make me remember Fat's comment about ice cream on a hot dog too. Of course I was married in a T-shirt and plan to be buried the same way so I don't have any room to talk about others looking uncomfortable in a suit.

Hu


JAM said:
LOL! :D

How about Ralf's pin-striped suit in this snapshot, taken before the players' meeting! :p

BTW, each player was given an N.A. 8-Ball Championship duffle bag with their names embroidered on them. They were full of neat stuff, a N.A. Championship hat and shirt, CDs, DVDs, coffee mug, and other cool items. The players were definitely digging these goodie bags. Between the green room, media coverage, and The Venetian's magnificant ballroom, it was nothing but FIRST CLASS all the way. :)

Gold star goes out to who can name the other two European players in this picture with Souquet on the right. :o

JAM
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
As I prepare to post this I cannot help but wonder if it will bring the body-slammers out of the woodwork. I fail to understand the joy that so many seem to gain by attempting to humiliate others.

You projected your optimism about the future of the game in a non threatening manner and with out stepping on any one`s toes.Hence I am not anticipating any slamming & jamming.cheers
 
vagabond said:
You projected your optimism about the future of the game in a non threatening manner and with out stepping on any one`s toes.Hence I am not anticipating any slamming & jamming.cheers

Well said, the post was writtenwell and I agree with most you said. The threads that incite trouble often refer to the "bashers" and are often written in a gloating manner with little respect for the professional players less fortunate than the ones chosen.
 
:confused: :)

vagabond said:
You projected your optimism about the future of the game in a non threatening manner and with out stepping on any one`s toes.Hence I am not anticipating any slamming & jamming.cheers

Hasn't the 'bodyslamming'[ LOL] already started Mr Wilson?

As I prepare to post this I cannot help but wonder if it will bring the body-slammers out of the woodwork. I fail to understand the joy that so many seem to gain by attempting to humiliate others.

I would call that provocative, not reasonable at all.

So anyone who disagrees with his rosy predictions will be a 'bodyslammer' out to 'humiliate ' him?

That really encourages civil debate!

Gabber...not a slammer or out to humiliate anyone.........
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
As for the danger of Trudeau branding his players and forbidding them from playing in other events, well, that is what I would do if I were him.

If this is true, then I say death to the PIG! This is not football or basketball where someone could get injured and there might be a reason for this.

I am only saying this because I cannot stand monopolies. Trudeau is a criminal and I hope he gets his a$$ back in court facing anti-monopoly charges. Jerry, could we be so lucky to expect more from a criminal?

I guess he wants to fight unions. The players will unite and boycott his tournament, maybe not today, but one day, if pool succeeds, Trudeau's greedy attitude is going to sink his ship.
 
whitewolf said:
If this is true, then I say death to the PIG! This is not football or basketball where someone could get injured and there might be a reason for this.

I am only saying this because I cannot stand monopolies. Trudeau is a criminal and I hope he gets his a$$ back in court facing anti-monopoly charges. Jerry, could we be so lucky to expect more from a criminal?

I guess he wants to fight unions. The players will unite and boycott his tournament, maybe not today, but one day, if pool succeeds, Trudeau's greedy attitude is going to sink his ship.
Here is an audio lecture explaining what a monopoly actually is:
http://www.mises.org/mp3/MU2001/MU12.mp3

and a video on the currupt origins of the ludicrous Antitrust laws:
http://mises.org/multimedia/video/DiLorenzo/6.wmv

Hint: A real monopoly requires the cooperation of coercive regulatory policies from the state.

If the IPT can dominate the sport and the related industries it can do so only by satisfying the players and the consumers through smart and efficient business. All be based on voluntary cooperation.

Colin
 
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Gabber said:
:confused: :

I would call that provocative, not reasonable at all.

.

It may appear that way.But it has the appearence more like some one expressing his trepidation based on what one has seen on this board where slamming & jamming somebody became a common theme.:cool:
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
I see a lot of threads on the boards that condemn the IPT as the 800-pd gorilla that is crushing other promoters. But I see it differently. Just as Efren raised the level of play for the men and Allison did for the ladies, the IPT is just raising the bar.

The future is far from dim for other event planners. They can learn from what Trudeau is doing and adapt his techniques to improve their own events. For one thing, the IPT makes no bones about the role of television exposure. They know it is crucial for success.

Other promoters may not have the resources to beam their events around the world on regular TV, but technology is fast bringing us the day when our televisions and computers interact seamlessly. Soon we will all be able to use our remotes to choose between standard cable programs or internet programs. Promoters will be able reach a huge audience by just mounting a single camera at the foot end of the table and an overhead. No commentators are really required. You don't have commentators when you are at an event and they are not missed.

As technology eases and cheapens this process all promoters will be able to gain the exposure required to draw the sponsors needed to compete with IPT paydays.

I see the IPT as much as a blessing as a threat to existing tournaments. Competition is always good for business. It makes you improve your product and explore new markets. It eliminates laziness and rewards creativity. Short-term conflicts may wound and even eradicate some tours but their absence will soon be filled by others. Perhaps we can look forward to a new age of pool.

As for the danger of Trudeau branding his players and forbidding them from playing in other events, well, that is what I would do if I were him. But if he succeeds in his efforts he will inspire young players to work and improve and other tours will have a large field of future stars to develop around. And there are ways to draw players and fans to new arenas. I, for one, would love to see the old idea of World Team Billiards revived. I would like to cheer a four-player Team America against Team China or Team Germany. Trudeau cannot possibly cover all the possible bases of interest out there and so I see lots of room available for those with the imagination to create events of interest.

For me, I hope to see all promoters succeed. When promoters make money the players also make money and the fans are treated to the best experience. Best of luck to all of them and all of you.

I hope to live to see the day when pool has erased the ridiculous stigma it has carried since the depression and is recognized as the beautiful marriage of art, tactics and geometry that it truly is. May you as well.

As I prepare to post this I cannot help but wonder if it will bring the body-slammers out of the woodwork. I fail to understand the joy that so many seem to gain by attempting to humiliate others.

I am a promoter and also run a regional tour in Texas. As matter of fact, I just returned about an hour ago to assist Harrison with the IPT Qualifier in Corpus Christi Tx.
Personally, I am very envious of the IPT and wish this had come along about 20 years ago, but, at least it has come along.
The Ipt has impacted our tour already and in a positive way.
From the start I have used and exploited such names as Jeremy Jones, Gabe Owen, Corey Duel, Cliff Joyner, Charlie Bryant, John Drew Hager, Gilbert Martinez, Sylver Ochoa, David G, Lil John, and many others. They have never denied me anything I have asked of them and for that I thank them.
At one point many had requested that I bar all touring pros from the tour and to be honest, I never even entertained the idea. They all helped getting this going and I will always be grateful.
Then comes along the IPT and a change in focus. Why wouldn't there be a change in fcus? They now have a way to earn a living. Before, it was about survival. I don't blame them in the least.
So, how has the Ipt helped us? Before the IPT, we were averaging app. 68 players per monthly event. Now we are averaging 84 and climbing.
Why? Because of the IPT and it's schedulings and so forth. we don't get the above mentioned names as often. Now people are more anxious to play than ever before because they feel they have a chance.
These guys will always be welcome and to them I say, good luck and when you are in town, drop by and at least say hello.
Never in my wildest dreams, did I think something like the IPT would come along in my lifetime. It is a dream come true for so many. For many a little late and as I have talked with many, it is truly sad, but, that is life. They did though, pave the way.
There is plenty of room for every promoter and dreamer on the planet. The players far out number us.
 
vagabond said:
It may appear that way.But it has the appearence more like some one expressing his trepidation based on what one has seen on this board where slamming & jamming somebody became a common theme.:cool:

No Mr W. This guy is a pro journalist. He knows exactly what he is saying. Its just another attempt to demonize anyone who complains about the obvious discrepancies btween what KT SAYS and what he DOES.




When do the players get paid?

Answer:
This is very funny to me. The pool world is notorious for charlatans, promoters who don’t pay, and promises that aren’t kept. In my world of business, when a businessman tells me he’s going to do something and we shake hands, that means it’s going to happen. In the world of pool, when someone says they are going to do something it means he’s probably going to rob you! I’m joking of course, but there is a running line in pool that goes, “Winning the tournament was easy. Getting paid is the hard part!”

I find it amusing that so many players are concerned with actually getting a check from a tournament. Imagine if I put on a tournament and didn’t pay the players. I get enough criticism in the press. That’s all I would need is some more! Ha, ha. I write this with a big smile on my face because it is so amusing to me that players are concerned about getting paid. But to put all the fears at rest, when I had my first tournament with LoreeJon Jones and Mike Sigel I decided to bring out the money in cash - $150,000.00 in cash money and put it so that everyone could see that Mike actually got the money! Of course, right after the tournament since Mike and I are friends he said, “I don’t want to carry this money around, get rid of it. Give me a check later.” Ha, ha.

So, to make sure that the reputation of pool is actually enhanced from its previous dubious, less than stellar reputation, all the players at IPT events will be paid at the end of each round. We are working out the details and logistics, but the bottom line is when a player comes to the event, and if they lose and are knocked out of the tournament, the next day they will be able to walk into the cashier’s office and get a check for their tournament winnings

The bottom line is..................can we believe a single word he says? I think thats a valid question and worth discussion.
He says he sold a share in the IPT for 60 million? LMAO
Now he claims he can run 200 balls? ...........next he will be telling us he shot Kennedy! LOL
Even the fact/ possibilty of a fixed draw is of no significance to present IPT players or the groupies!:) .
When the original IPT chosen few were suddenly required to be unpaid spectators at the KOTH Invitation, there were few complaints.
Recently, a poster brings up the point that KT has AGAIN gone back on his word and suddenly there is a swarm defending him.- for no apparent reason!

Just like J, I hope this post will not bring out the IPT [ Born-Again Kevins out the woodwork to slam and humiliate me !].
Most of whom are already in the IPT, are trying to be in the IPT, are in some way connected or are basically hoping to grab a few bucks out of the Great IPT giveaway. They have a vested interest but represent a conflict of interest! They can only see the cash.
These people can HARDLY be called impartial.

The fate of Pro Pool now lies in the hands of a guy who has the gaul and the balls to look a pro player in the eye and claim he can run 200 balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think about it.


This poster paints a very rosy picture and I really can't be bothered to take it to pieces.:) To me its a propoganda post and purely for the 'feelgood' factor.:p [ it could almosthave been written by KT himself!].

D you want to make some easy money? Lets challenge KT for a Million $ that he can't run 200 in 24 hours! If there were 10 shares I,m sure I could find 9 other guys to pay 80 grand a share. A guarateed profit of 20 grand.
Gabber................200 balls...geez!.....if its true...he should be playing!:D
 
Gabber said:
No Mr W. This guy is a pro journalist. He knows exactly what he is saying. Its just another attempt to demonize anyone who complains about the obvious discrepancies btween what KT SAYS and what he DOES...The bottom line is..................can we believe a single word he says? I think thats a valid question and worth discussion.
He says he sold a share in the IPT for 60 million? LMAO
Now he claims he can run 200 balls? ...........next he will be telling us he shot Kennedy! LOL
Even the fact/ possibilty of a fixed draw is of no significance to present IPT players or the groupies!:) .
When the original IPT chosen few were suddenly required to be unpaid spectators at the KOTH Invitation, there were few complaints.
Recently, a poster brings up the point that KT has AGAIN gone back on his word and suddenly there is a swarm defending him.- for no apparent reason!

Just like J, I hope this post will not bring out the IPT [ Born-Again Kevins out the woodwork to slam and humiliate me !].
Most of whom are already in the IPT, are trying to be in the IPT, are in some way connected or are basically hoping to grab a few bucks out of the Great IPT giveaway. They have a vested interest but represent a conflict of interest! They can only see the cash.
These people can HARDLY be called impartial.

The fate of Pro Pool now lies in the hands of a guy who has the gaul and the balls to look a pro player in the eye and claim he can run 200 balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Think about it.


This poster paints a very rosy picture and I really can't be bothered to take it to pieces.:) To me its a propoganda post and purely for the 'feelgood' factor.:p [ it could almosthave been written by KT himself!].

D you want to make some easy money? Lets challenge KT for a Million $ that he can't run 200 in 24 hours! If there were 10 shares I,m sure I could find 9 other guys to pay 80 grand a share. A guarateed profit of 20 grand.
Gabber................200 balls...geez!.....if its true...he should be playing!:D

Gabber, I have read many of your posts on this forum, and I have NEVER read anything I would categorize as "bashing" or mean-spirited by you; that is, until now.

It's one thing to state an opinion, but your recent posts on the IPT forum have been laced with sarcasm and on the verge of nastiness.

I think you have made your point that you don't like the IPT or KT. That's fine and your prerogative. To continue to infiltrate this thread with your negativity worded in such ways as can be interpreted as offensive is in poor taste, in my humble opinion. :(

This thread was initiated by an AzBilliards member expressing an opinion based on observation. He is also a poster, I might add, who does not post on AzBilliards very often.

Please cease and desist your rampage on this thread. I may be in the minority with my thoughts, but it may be that the readers of this forum now have a clear understanding of your stance pertaining to the IPT and Kevin Trudeau. Is it necessary to pick apart the words of a poster who expressed his thoughts, ones which are contrary to yours? Please do not interpret my post as an attack towards you because that is truly not my intention. I happen to have enjoyed reading your posts. :)

I'm not a born-again IPT-er or Kevin worshipper, but, geezy peezy, just because I don't share your view doesn't mean that I "can only see the cash."

JAM
 
well JAM, i agree and disagree with what you have written.

I too, have an emotinally vested interest in seeing the IPT succeed. My best friend won the 350k. I want him to make millions. It would hurt me as much as it would hurt him to see the IPT fail. I, like you, have befriended many pro players, and for too long, have sat back and watched pool languish miserably.

So, yeah, we want it to work, despite the idea that if the IPT is succesful, kt will be succesful.

And JAM, you know where my heart is, and I have put my money where my mouth is as well, because I love pool, and those that play it.

But gabber brings up some good points too. I disagree with most of what he says, partly because i don't like his tone and genearl nastiness about it, but can you really argue with his skepticism? And to ask him, however politely you did, to cease and desist expressing his negative opinion, is not right either.

There are three camps out there.

There are those that are blinded by the opportunity.
Those that love pool so much that they will accept any saviour.

then you have the self defeating, self loathing crowd, who detest what kt is and can only root for his demise, thus ensuring the end for pro players to really achieve a living wage.

the last crowd is the wait and see guys. These people are reasonable. They are going to defer judgement. They are skeptics and optimists, at the same time. Their hearts are at odds with their minds. They want succes, ut fear the worst. Time will tell.

Regardless of which camp you reside, we are all entitled to our opinions, no matter how rosy, or how vile.

Live and let live, I say. Just don't make it personal.

rg
 
This post very simply encapsulates my feelings as well

This post say it perfectly...it's obvious based on his posts that Gabber was no room for KT. Admitably this I'm closer to this side than blind faith crowd.

We all need to have tolerance of peoples believes.

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
Sir Winston Churchill
(1874 - 1965)

I really wish we had a web vote were we could all go on record with our believe and then park this discussion or a couple of years.

NYC cue dude said:
well JAM, i agree and disagree with what you have written.

I too, have an emotinally vested interest in seeing the IPT succeed. My best friend won the 350k. I want him to make millions. It would hurt me as much as it would hurt him to see the IPT fail. I, like you, have befriended many pro players, and for too long, have sat back and watched pool languish miserably.

So, yeah, we want it to work, despite the idea that if the IPT is succesful, kt will be succesful.

And JAM, you know where my heart is, and I have put my money where my mouth is as well, because I love pool, and those that play it.

But gabber brings up some good points too. I disagree with most of what he says, partly because i don't like his tone and genearl nastiness about it, but can you really argue with his skepticism? And to ask him, however politely you did, to cease and desist expressing his negative opinion, is not right either.

There are three camps out there.

There are those that are blinded by the opportunity.
Those that love pool so much that they will accept any saviour.

then you have the self defeating, self loathing crowd, who detest what kt is and can only root for his demise, thus ensuring the end for pro players to really achieve a living wage.

the last crowd is the wait and see guys. These people are reasonable. They are going to defer judgement. They are skeptics and optimists, at the same time. Their hearts are at odds with their minds. They want succes, ut fear the worst. Time will tell.

Regardless of which camp you reside, we are all entitled to our opinions, no matter how rosy, or how vile.

Live and let live, I say. Just don't make it personal.

rg
 
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