A Nit Or Not A Nit..

middleofnowhere

Registered
This reminds me of a situation I had once. It was league, one of their team refereeing. My opponent scratched (leaving me an easy finish). League rules were that the referee should retrieve the cue ball from the gulley and put it back on the table, if the player does it, it's a foul. But by local convention and sense of sportsmanship, most people/teams didn't apply the rule.

I looked to the ref, gave him a few seconds to go get the CB if he wanted to (he stayed completely still, made no indication he was going to get the ball), then I went and got it myself. Obviously he called a foul and the other guy won the frame.

The lesson to me was if you're going to trust a stranger to be pragmatic / honest, sometimes you're going to be disappointed. At least explicitly ask the question, whether they'll allow whatever you're planning to do.
Really need to discuss the rules before play starts. Everybody needs to be on the same page.

I used to play in some black pool rooms years ago. The rules were always changing as we played it seemed.

I didn't care about the rules as long as I know what they were. They played games you never heard of.
A popular one was 8 ball in Georgia.
 
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middleofnowhere

Registered
the same thing happened in the world pool championship this year, if i'm not mistaken. one of those round chalks was dropped and rolled onto the playing surface
Years ago when they played straight pool in suits. Players were always struggling not to foul a ball with their jackets when reaching over the table.

Once I saw Miz undo his pants and tuck his whole jack in his waistband. Those rules were rediclous.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eddie I love you and know you've been around the game a long time. You messed up, imo, by not waiting for / getting the ref to remove the template.

Don't give a nit an opportunity to be nitty.

best,
brian kc

I love how you phrased this. It totally was a nit move. But you have to take responsibility for giving the nit his moment. You can select your opponents for action and practice to maintain a nit-free zone. But in competition you’re going to play against some nits and they’re going to make nit moves.
 

dardusm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nit move in my opinion. I'm not a fan of rules allowing players to win games without really winning the game. All ball fouls is almost a gaff game. It reminds of APA if you don't mark your pocket on the 8 ball then you can lose. Win on the table. The big question was did you win the match?
 
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Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
the same thing happened in the world pool championship this year, if i'm not mistaken. one of those round chalks was dropped and rolled onto the playing surface
Not the same thing. When grabbing your chalk you are not acting as ref.
 

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
What will you do next time? Move it yourself or wait for an official? You realize there are some bonafide nits in this world who after first agreeing to you moving the template will call a foul, claiming, "I thought you could move the template without moving the balls." It takes all kinds. One never knows what he is dealing with until they show up.
 
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sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Learn the rules, Eddie. Yes, your opponent was very strict with you and while that may bother you, the argument that you didn't foul because you were acting as referee isn't really valid when THERE IS is a referee available to attend to removal of the template.

That said, the template has always come with some baggage and it leads to no end of disputes, but in any tournament in which the players rack the balls, a template is advantageous, as it provides some protection from the many that manipulate the rack.

Use of the template when a referee is racking the balls is, in my opinion, ridiculous.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
You admit you fouled and call your opponent a nit for calling the foul. You fouled, he called it per the rules....You might want to rethink who's the nit.


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
You can't play all balls foul without a ref for each table and with that virus called the magic rack

Whiner was a nit and so is the entire event.

Learn your lesson.

All ball fouls? How many refs do you have? None?

Piss up a wet rope life is too short partner.

I would have scrambled the table onto it's apron and left.

Want to play nitty? Let me demonstrate.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Really need to discuss the rules before play starts. Everybody needs to be on the same page.

I used to play in some black pool rooms years ago. The rules were always changing as we played it seemed.

I didn't care about the rules as long as I know what they were. They played games you never heard of.
A popular one was 8 ball in Georgia.
Played at open gyms with blacks back in my youth. The winner stayed and the loser sits and waits. 4-5 teams waiting to run it.

Here are the rules you must be aware of when playing against the brothers:

Three trips up and down the court without a basket and the black team scores one.

If the mostly white team is on the hill, anything defensive is a foul. "I'll take that"

If you want to win you better blow them out because no close game ever occurs without controversy up to and including throwing down.

And that was the student union, imagine under the bridge? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In a tournament, especially with a significant $ entry and payout and I assume a $ player auction, with a ref overseeing a number of matches at the same time, particular when considering all-ball-fouls enforced, unless you had 100% certainty you could remove the template without disturbing any balls, clearly you should have waited on the ref to remove the template. If he screws up and accidentally moves a ball, he makes the appropriate decision how to best handle it.

Yes, it’s nitty of your opponent to call a foul on you and demand ball-in-hand, but he was trailing in the match to you at that time and needing some help, and you presented the opportunity. You do have to acknowledge some responsibility for your error in judgement.

In my opinion, if I was the TD / ref in that situation, the correct thing to do considering your accident is to offer your opponent the option of them moving the ball back to where they think it was, or leave it as is - whichever position they figure is most beneficial to them. If they choose a location for it to be replaced that in your judgement is not accurate and even more to their potential advantage, that’s just the breaks and the penalty for your error in judgement.

Give us a follow-up as to the outcome - who won that game and who won the match?
I’m guessing he lost… 😂
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I love how you phrased this. It totally was a nit move. But you have to take responsibility for giving the nit his moment. You can select your opponents for action and practice to maintain a nit-free zone. But in competition you’re going to play against some nits and they’re going to make nit moves.
"Nit-free zone". Classic. Should be a sign in EVERY 'hall.
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
a tournament is a games of rules. and to be used as seen fit by you and your opponent to his advantage. thats the way it is.
if you want the rules changed thats okay with me. but if i am in a tournament of any kind for serious money i will use whatever rules there are to my advantage to help me win.
if you dont know them or choose to take a short cut then its your choice and you get the repercussions.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Just got back from the Ten ball in Front Royal, Virginia. Great room, monster field.. Nice owners..
Had an incident of wtf in my match with a nitwit (correct term? you decide) named Zack.. He breaks dry and the two is rounding the table heading directly to the ten ball which remains where it was racked. The two ball is slow rolling towards the ten and looking to freeze on it. It hits the pos magic rack (i'm not a fan) takes a right turn and rolls off about an inch, leaving about a half inch gap between itself and the ten.
Neither ball is on top of the rack, new referee at that end of the room and hasn't automatically removed it like the previous ref the few games before, present score 4-2 me. I remark laughing how the pos magic rack changed the path and I approach the table the same/like the ref would and proceed to remove the rack off the table, brushing the ten ball and it moves and cabbage patch boy calls a foul.. Uses the foul on all balls rule and the director even sided with him.. lmao.. WTF.... NIT? Me thinks so.. Anything to twin a game.. later on in the set he asks the ref to remove the rack and the ref did the same thing and moved the ten ball the same as I did... I shudda called foul.. pos move on cabbage patch boy.
Big to-do about nothing. Take the foul and go on from there. News of the World - Life isn't always fair! ;)
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Learn the rules, Eddie. Yes, your opponent was very strict with you and while that may bother you, the argument that you didn't foul because you were acting as referee isn't really valid when THERE IS is a referee available to attend to removal of the template.
Exactly...
Use of the template when a referee is racking the balls is, in my opinion, ridiculous.
meh... I have zero doubt you've seen refs struggle with a triangle more than anyone Stu. Now put that in a setting with 'not' new cloth and I'm sure the template was time saver more than anything else.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Exactly...

meh... I have zero doubt you've seen refs struggle with a triangle more than anyone Stu. Now put that in a setting with 'not' new cloth and I'm sure the template was time saver more than anything else.
Agreed. JV. When there is great time pressure, such as in the qualifying stages of the WPC, the US Open, the All Japan or the China Open, there is no doubt that the template can help to keep things moving, but as we saw at the WPC, it makes the game too easy for the elite unless very tough equipment is in use.

No, I haven't often seen refs struggle with the triangle much over the years. and must add that in the premier events, the cloth is always new. A much bigger problem is the frequent manipulation of the rack when players, rather than refs, rack the balls with the triangle, and I think that it has compromised the game's integrity far too often, and has made it more repetitious. With the template, who racks doesn't matter much.

Still, I'll revise my view to allow for the good point you have raised to "on cloth that is not worn, it is ridiculous to have a referee rack with the template". That said, it was done recently at the last International 9-ball and the last China Open.

At the last WPC and the last US Open 9-ball, they didn't use the template in the knockout stages and referees always racked the balls. It was the same at the last Mosconi Cup and the last World Pool Masters. Matchroom gets it and as they are, at present, the ones setting the trends for pro pool in the world, I expect that the gradual move away from the template in the business rounds of the majors will continue.
 
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