A Nit Or Not A Nit..

alstl said:
Same tournament. Semi-finals. What's the rule?
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If we are to believe what TinMan has told us about the TD clearly stating that if a ball was touched by a player while removing the template it is a foul, then the above example is moot as it does not appear as though he disturbs anything.

Still doesn't change what the TD declared to be the rule, and the right of Eddie's opponent to call him on it.
 
Didn't look like he moved the 10 ball or even touched it. If he did that would be a violation. If you decide to take it upon yourself to remove the Magic Rack, you do so at your own peril... At least according to the rules if they were playing under.
 
Covered in post 54... Tin Man...

"I played in the event as well. The tournament director had a player's meeting Friday night. He really wanted this to be a professional event so we played all ball fouls and we had 4 referees arms length away at all times. He set the rules that removing the magic rack was a foul if a ball was touched and that we were to ask a referee to do this. There was NEVER a delay with this request

I dont know, but it seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Daydreaming referee in background? I guess he never asked.
 
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alstl said:
1:58

What's the rule?
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Same rule as in OP's scenario. Only in this case a ball wasn't disturbed. Had one been disturbed, the non-shooting player would be able to call a foul if he so chooses.

Hello....it was the rule of this tournament.

Nobody in the OP's scenario HAS to call a foul, but is well within their right to do so under the rules of the tournament. Why call them a nit or a cabbage patch doll over something he had every right to do, and that was the OP's fault that the scenario even occurred?

What is it about this that some are not understanding???
 
ChrisinNC said:
In a tournament, especially with a significant $ entry and payout and I assume a $ player auction, with a ref overseeing a number of matches at the same time, particular when considering all-ball-fouls enforced, unless you had 100% certainty you could remove the template without disturbing any balls, clearly you should have waited on the ref to remove the template. If he screws up and accidentally moves a ball, he makes the appropriate decision how to best handle it.

Yes, it’s nitty of your opponent to call a foul on you and demand ball-in-hand, but he was trailing in the match to you at that time and needing some help, and you presented the opportunity. You do have to acknowledge some responsibility for your error in judgement.

In my opinion, if I was the TD / ref in that situation, the correct thing to do considering your accident is to offer your opponent the option of them moving the ball back to where they think it was, or leave it as is - whichever position they figure is most beneficial to them. If they choose a location for it to be replaced that in your judgement is not accurate and even more to their potential advantage, that’s just the breaks and the penalty for your error in judgement.

Give us a follow-up as to the outcome - who won that game and who won the match?
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Exactly
 
pvc lou said:
lol. I got nothing against the tin man. He really seems like a great person. I just find him too tedious to read or watch play.
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So let me get this right . EddietheLOCK posted this calling another guy a nit !!! Eddie the ( LOCK ARTIST ) LOL
 
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pvc lou said:
I've played you a couple of times, Bruce. I doubt you would have called that foul.
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Man nowadays they got me where I might think about it lol …… Na I’ll give one and see how they repay me for the kindness…. Lol…. Thanks for that Lou , much love brother !!!!!!
 
Maniac said:
Same rule as in OP's scenario. Only in this case a ball wasn't disturbed. Had one been disturbed, the non-shooting player would be able to call a foul if he so chooses.

Hello....it was the rule of this tournament.

Nobody in the OP's scenario HAS to call a foul, but is well within their right to do so under the rules of the tournament. Why call them a nit or a cabbage patch doll over something he had every right to do, and that was the OP's fault that the scenario even occurred?

What is it about this that some are not understanding???
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I understand that but did you watch the video? The referee was right there sitting on a stool with his hands in his pockets. Player broke. Referee never moved. Player looks at the layout. Player pockets the one ball. A minute later with the 10 ball very close to the template the player walks over and removes the template. Referee still sitting there with his hands in his pockets. It seems to me if they are being anal about the template then the referee should get off his butt and remove the template. Doesn't that make sense?

I would have loved to have seen them do to Earl what they did to Eddie. That would have gone viral.

 
pvc lou said:
.... I doubt you would have called that foul.
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It's a problem for the players when the TD introduces rules that many of them never play by. Should the two players in a match just agree to ignore the rule? In case the TD happens to be watching, there could be excitement. I think it's better for all of the players to try to play by the rules.
 
alstl said:
... It seems to me if they are being anal about the template then the referee should get off his butt and remove the template. Doesn't that make sense? ...
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When I was an area referee, we were told very clearly that we were to approach the tables only when requested by the players. I sat watching one match in which both players were cheating on the break. Neither one asked for my help.
 
Bob Jewett said:
When I was an area referee, we were told very clearly that we were to approach the tables only when requested by the players. I sat watching one match in which both players were cheating on the break. Neither one asked for my help.
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Right, but in this case they are punishing players for acting like a referee while the referee sits there. In the finals of the tournament a referee removed the template after each rack without being asked by either player. I think they were making it up as they went along.
 
alstl said:
Right, but in this case they are punishing players for acting like a referee while the referee sits there. In the finals of the tournament a referee removed the template after each rack without being asked by either player. I think they were making it up as they went along.
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One referee per table is a different situation than having area refs. In the former, the ref is supposed to have complete control of the table. In the latter, the ref only goes to the table when requested. I think that's pretty standard.
 
alstl said:
This reminds me of when I argue with my wife. You are making a case for it being a foul but you don't agree with the foul. I give up. You win the internet.
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I personally can choose not to uphold a rule if I feel that my opponent had the best of intentions and didn't gain an advantage, doesn't mean a foul wasn't committed. I'm sorry you can't understand a pretty simple concept. I'm not trying to win the internet. I'm just not going to bash someone I don't know for upholding an actual accepted rule. Good luck with whatever the hell your trying to accomplish.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 
alstl said:
Right, but in this case they are punishing players for acting like a referee while the referee sits there. In the finals of the tournament a referee removed the template after each rack without being asked by either player. I think they were making it up as they went along.
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If he touched the ball in an all ball foul tournament, I'd call the foul every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. All he had to do is call the ref over.

AND........ I would expect to have it called on me if it happened. That's the rules. Play by them. It's not fair to the players on the other tables if THEY are following the rules. It could alter a later match.

If you foul, dont you deserve to have it called on you... even if it is due to a magic rack? Why is this so hard? Just force the ref to do his job.
 
Don’t blame him; blame the guys who use getting the rack out as a move to manipulate ball positions.

Unfortunately, it’s a rule that has to be enforced against a stranger.
 
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