Some rules state the opponent has that option. Others say it must be moved back as near as possible to the original spot, but your opponent has to do it. Not the person that accidentally moved it.
A Nit Or Not A Nit..
- Thread starter eddiethelock
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middleofnowhere
Registered
Yea, I should have been clear and said incoming player. It is also possible for a foul to happen playing cue ball only fouls moving an object ball.
Exactly... However I don't think I've ever encountered a set of rules that didn't require position approval from the opponent. Since they have the last word, they can manlipulate the position within reason.
In the end, the player who inadvertently moved the ball has made an error and exposed themselves to a potential negative outcome. Much like the OP did when he broke the rules. Back during the situations I experienced with the deceitful moves by my opponent. I was a decent player but with a banger mentality, so I blamed the whole thing on them. Now I assume the worst but hope for the best, and don't blame other people for my mistakes.
I also don't complain about speeding tickets, if I'm caught speeding...lol
Come on people, this really isn't that difficult. Rules are rules. If you don't like them, don't play. No one is forcing you.
Re-read the OPs post. He has made it very clear he does not like the Magic Rack. He stated that it changed the direction of a slow rolling ball. Quote.... " It hits the pos magic rack (i'm not a fan) takes a right turn and rolls off about an inch, leaving about a half inch gap between itself and the ten."
And, he stated that the 10 ball moved... Quote. "....and proceed to remove the rack off the table, brushing the ten ball and it moves...". A clear rule violation. Nobody to blame but himself.
To OP....Now, if you would have done the smart thing and talked to the opponent first instead of just taking it on yourself, you could have avoided this whole situation. Which by the way was not your opponent's fault.
Re-read the OPs post. He has made it very clear he does not like the Magic Rack. He stated that it changed the direction of a slow rolling ball. Quote.... " It hits the pos magic rack (i'm not a fan) takes a right turn and rolls off about an inch, leaving about a half inch gap between itself and the ten."
And, he stated that the 10 ball moved... Quote. "....and proceed to remove the rack off the table, brushing the ten ball and it moves...". A clear rule violation. Nobody to blame but himself.
To OP....Now, if you would have done the smart thing and talked to the opponent first instead of just taking it on yourself, you could have avoided this whole situation. Which by the way was not your opponent's fault.
middleofnowhere
Registered
The incoming player does have the choice to replace the ball or leave it. But it has to be to the original position.
That can be challenged by the player who moved it as to if that is in fact the original position.. the incoming player doesn't have the last word.
Once he says move the ball back they have to aggree it is in the right place. If they have a ref then he will replace the ball and that's that.
That's in honest pool player fantasy land. The "original position" is left up to interpretation of the players. The tie in these circumstances will always go to the player who did not touch the ball to begin with. Call a rail bird, ref, TD, it doesn't matter. Unless you can prove otherwise, in the end the player that did not touch the ball will get the benefit of the doubt.
To be clear, I don't think what I wrote above is wrong. Two sides to this coin, and I've seen players "accidently" brush obstructions to clear a path. You have to side with the player sitting imo
middleofnowhere
Registered
Yup, given the opportunity everyone will try to get a little edge.
You can't just decide to be the ref and move stuff around. If it's all ball fouls, it does not matter what you are doing, unless you already talked to the guy you are playing and everyone was in agreement about what you were doing. If the tournament has a ref for this, no player can just decide that they are going to do their job, especially without informing the other player about it.
In BCAPL leagues you are supposed to call non obvious shots, I have had plenty of instances where the 8 could have easily gone in 1 of 2 pockets, Im not going stand up and call a foul on a guy because he didnt call his pocket. A win by default is not a win in my book. That would be a nit move, the same nit move that happened in a local tournament. Player A was getting beat badly, while player B went to rack player A felt that player B grabbed the cue ball before it stopped rolling completely. If in fact player B did grab the Q ball while moving the Q ball was at center table and had maybe a quarter of a roll left if any. Player A threatened to call police because there was a Calcutta and player A wanted to turn in everyone for illegal gambling if he didnt get his 1 win on a technicality. Nobody capitulated and player A forfeited and left. That was also a nit move.
The problem is not all players play with integrity. On a touchy safe I will call the safe while standing and making eye contact with my opponent then wait shortly to give him the opportunity to come look at the shot, watch the shot, or call a ref. Then there are those that will take full advantage of the "call goes to the shooter" rule in the case of a disagreement. I have seen guys call safe while down on the shot on their final stroke, theres not much time to do any of the above at that point.
It would be interesting for the posters on this thread to know who those two pros were. Outing them shouldn't get anybody's feelings hurt. All you'd be doing is stating facts.
True. But I know how some people operate. No way I would touch the cue ball until all motion is stopped. Even in a foul situation, if other object balls are still moving, I dont touch the cue ball. Ask yourself this... If a referee was watching, would he call the foul on me? Doing stupid shit that you know her against the rules, such as stopping a rolling cue ball at any time, you deserve what you get. Don't give them the chance to call the foul on you. I have even watched professional matches where the referee stood above the cue ball until it stopped rolling, or just spinning in place, before he touched it.
And I'll ask this to you directly... If you were in a timed match where you had a 30-second shot clock. Would you complain if they restarted the clock before a ball stopped spinning? All motion Must Be Stopped before the clock can restart. That is the rule. Would you not complain in this situation?
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Player A was lucky he didn't get his dumb ass whipped.
You moved the ball. Why you cryin'?
Well, I consider it a fact based on being there and witnessing the events. It quickly becomes a matter of opinion once the fan base decides to jump on me.
That said, the first guy was an asshat throughout my match (which I of course lost...lol), and hasn't done anything to endear himself in my eyes since, so I don't have a problem saying his name was Martin Daigle.
The other one has earned my respect otherwise, and the occurance happened when he was at a tender age. ...so how about I just give the initials (JM) and the masses can be left to wonder.....
Jimmy Mataya!
Mohnny Jorra?
Once again as I said it was a judgement call if the cue ball had in fact stopped or not. If the cue ball is at center table with a half of a roll left I aint saying anything if my opponent moves or touches it because at that point its just formality, the cue ball aint ever going to make it to a hole. But there are people who have little or no integrity, there have been situations where I fouled, double hit on the cue ball and I called the foul on myself, my opponent asks why Im walking away from the table, he had no idea that I fouled, others make a bad hit, know its a bad hit, yet they claim it was good. I suppose it all depends on how much integrity one plays with, when I win I want to know that I won because I played better not because I took advantage of the rules.
...and that's what integrity actual is.
This notion that someone who knowingly broke the rules and feels they're above them, is somehow better than someone who chooses to follow the rules, is ridiculous.