And play you do!
A proof without words: Why elevating a cue slightly may increase draw:
- Thread starter Bob Callahan
- Start date
And play you do!
This is called a piqué shot. When there is a cut angle, elevation helps create quick draw.
FYI, the physics of draw shots agrees with you.
Regards,
Dave
You mean I was right for once. I'm gonna get drunk tonight!
The physics info and advice usually agrees with what top players do. The "physics" certainly recommends that you should have some drinks tonight.You mean I was right for once. I'm gonna get drunk tonight!FYI, the physics of draw shots agrees with you.
Regards,
Dave
I don't see an explanation of the follow through distance at a fixed tip speed vs reaction.
I do know that I get more reaction with longer follow through without changing the distance from tip to cueball, if the back swing stays the same then the tip speed at contact should be the same, why the different reactions?
I'd say always. Less often with what they think they do.
pj
chgo
If you are getting more draw with more follow through, either you are generating more cue speed into the ball (very likely) or you are dropping your tip slightly into the ball (also possible). For more info, see:
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/stroke.html#follow-through
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/draw.html#advice
Regards,
Dave
That's a big if. The same bridge length doesn't guaranty the same tip speed. Maybe longer followthrough is causing you to hit harder.
A more likely reason is that a longer followthrough causes you to stroke straighter, which helps you hit the CB lower.
There are spring loaded cue sticks that can be used to hit CBs with very short followthrough (Dr. Dave has one). They can easily show that plenty of spin can be put on the CB without much followthrough.
pj
chgo
This assumes the physics is solid, which isn't always the case.
But I agree with you: Good physics always agrees with what truly top players do, and top players don't always know (and/or can express) what they do.
Regards,
Dave
Last edited:
Its ironic this is coming from my mouth. But simply you guys are over thinking both shots.
Each shot has its place
Elevated's example of more draw
1.If you have a cueball on one side of the table object ball on the other
and you need to draw the ball back up table. You use the elevated draw shot so the cueball actually jumps and travels in the air(less friction) rather than across the felt(more friction) to reach the object ball then relase its spin.
Level's exmple of more draw
2. The level draw shot is used when the distance between the cueball and the object ball is negligible
Its more important to be able to do both shots. Rather than explain to the the hustler your paying. Which of the the shots he beat you with got more spin.
Each shot has its place
Elevated's example of more draw
1.If you have a cueball on one side of the table object ball on the other
and you need to draw the ball back up table. You use the elevated draw shot so the cueball actually jumps and travels in the air(less friction) rather than across the felt(more friction) to reach the object ball then relase its spin.
Level's exmple of more draw
2. The level draw shot is used when the distance between the cueball and the object ball is negligible
Its more important to be able to do both shots. Rather than explain to the the hustler your paying. Which of the the shots he beat you with got more spin.
IMO, this is not very good advice. For reasons why, see (and read) my July '09 BD article.
Regards,
Dave
If you knew more about it you wouldn't be paying him so often.
pj
chgo
I think you're under-understanding our overthinking.
pj
chgo
Loss of accuracy and control is why I would not take this route.
Another thought just occurred to me, does this mean according to these theories it does not matter what type of shaft, wood, butt or tip used you would not get any greater CB reaction?
Please by all means someone go on you tube and show me a video with a cueball 1/2 to 1 inch from the head rail and a ball at the other end straight in and draw the cueball all the way back with a level stroke?
How does this low level tip travel through the rail? Einstien
How does this low level tip travel through the rail? Einstien
Cue weight can certainly make a difference (see http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#weight).
A harder tip can result in more CB speed, and therefore more spin (see http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue_tip.html#efficiency).
Squirt (CB deflection) does not have much effect on spin (see http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#spin).
The tip, ferrule, joint, butt, and cue construction can definitely affect the "feel" or "hit" of the cue, but these are very subjective things (see http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#feel).
Enjoy,
Dave
One probably wants to invoke Newton rather than Einstein to keep things simple.
In the original version of Virtual Pool, you could play draw with a level stick even when the cue ball was frozen on the cushion or another ball. It was very useful. In updates this is fixed so when you ask to hit the ball low, the cue stick automatically elevates if an obstruction is close.
But if you have a certain style of antiquish table with net/web pockets, you can sometimes play a draw shot with a level stick shooting from the pocket. This situation can also let you hit up on the cue ball, which gets some interesting action.
Don't you hate it when someone answers your rhetorical question?
Last edited:
It's cool that we occasionally see pool's "common knowledge" questioned in an intelligent way. There are exceptions to everything including the general idea that the stick should stay level outside of masse.
OTOH it's maybe a little counterproductive to provide no explanation and just put forth a claim like "elevation increases draw". I can see a D player thinking it's okay to shoot with the ass end of his cue in the air because he saw the fancy math-laden diagram... when in fact it's hurting his game to shoot like that.
Something like PJ's full explanation is much better because it gives the big picture - that in some limited circumstances elevation gives better spin-to-speed (aka 'quick draw') but won't draw a ball further, and increases the odds of hops, bad aim, accidental curve, etc.
OTOH it's maybe a little counterproductive to provide no explanation and just put forth a claim like "elevation increases draw". I can see a D player thinking it's okay to shoot with the ass end of his cue in the air because he saw the fancy math-laden diagram... when in fact it's hurting his game to shoot like that.
Something like PJ's full explanation is much better because it gives the big picture - that in some limited circumstances elevation gives better spin-to-speed (aka 'quick draw') but won't draw a ball further, and increases the odds of hops, bad aim, accidental curve, etc.
