A Question For All The Cue Sellers

[shinobi]

I totally see where you are coming from Marcus. It happened to me a couple times. While I don't have anything against someone trying to make a buck, it's an awkward feeling to suddenly find out you have an unwanted person attempting to be your business partner, and doing a bad job of it

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I understand, Danktrees. I would sell it to the first person with my asking price. If nobody offered my asking price, then I would have to decide if I had been offered enuf money for me to want to sell it.

If a potential buyer told me... "I want to buy it but need time to think about it... and I'll let you know tomorrow.".... well, I would tell them that if someone comes along before you get back to me and offers me my asking price or something close to it, then I will sell it right then and there... in other words, I'm not going to hold it for you until you get back to me... tomorrow or otherwise.

In online selling, there's no downpayment... for the seller to hold it for the buyer until the buyer gets the rest of the money into the hands of the seller... and therefore, I wouldn't hold a cue for anyone... be it for a couple of hours... or for overnight.

My approach as a seller... Buy it now... or risk it being already sold if you wait.

I GUESS THAT IS ONE WAY TO DO IT, BUT THIS IS A SMALL HOBBY, WITH A LIMITED NUMBER OF BUYERS. IF YOU PISS OFF ONE BUYER YOU COULD LOSE 25 POTENTIAL BUYERS FROM WORD OF MOUTH.

TO BE HONEST, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS NOT WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO. IN THE SITUATION I AM TALKING ABOUT, THE POTENTIAL BUYER TOLD ME THEY HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT, AND THEN STARTING OFFERING A CUE THAT THEY DIDN'T OWN FOR SALE TO OTHER PEOPLE.

DON'T YOU FEEL, THAT A PERSON SHOULD OWN SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO SELL IT? ALSO, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE CUE BROKER SHOULD HAVE TO RISK THEIR CASH, TO TURN A PROFIT. I HAD TO PUT MY CASH OUT TO OWN THE CUE, TO MAKE MY MONEY.

I'M NOT LOOKING TO START AN ARGUMENT, I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU THINK.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I totally see where you are coming from Marcus. It happened to me a couple times. While I don't have anything against someone trying to make a buck, it's an awkward feeling to suddenly find out you have an unwanted person attempting to be your business partner, and doing a bad job of it

EXACTLY....THIS PRACTICE IS NOT ACCEPTED IN ANY OTHER SALES AREA THAT I HAVE EVER BEEN AROUND.

 

[Danktrees]

also want to say that i think if someone is trying to sell something that belongs to u, then u r entitled to something in return. maybe some of his profits? i dont like the idea of sitting there holding on to the cue that someone is trying to make money on. if they buy it from me to begin with then they can do whatever they want with it, but if it's still in my possession then it is mine and u cant go around pretending like its urs.

 

[speedy5963]

...

I had a guy offer to purchase a cue from me at X amount and then a few days later said he would send payment but it would have to be at a lower price because the guy he was selling to had offered a lower price then what was expected. I understand the frustration in this.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

I had a guy offer to purchase a cue from me at X amount and then a few days later said he would send payment but it would have to be at a lower price because the guy he was selling to had offered a lower price then what was expected. I understand the frustration in this.

I KNOW HOW I WOULD HAVE HANDLED THIS SITUATION. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS HAPPENS.

I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE GUYS IN MY POOLROOM HAVE ME LOOKING FOR CUES, AND TELL ME WHAT THEY CAN AFFORD. I FIND THEM SOMETHING, TELL THEM ABOUT IT, AND THAY TELL ME IT HAS TO BE LESS. I HATE GOING BACK TO THE SELLER, I TRY TO GET A NUMBER FROM MY CUSTOMER BEFORE I EVEN MAKE AN OFFER TO THE SELLER. AND THE BEST PART OF THOSE SITUATIONS, IS THAT I'M NOT MAKING ANY MONEY TO DO THE LEG WORK, I'M JUST HELPING OUT A FRIEND.

 

[speedy5963]

...

just had a cue end on ebay that I didn't get any opening bids, a guy had made me an offer on it of about 50.00 less then my opening bid, I emailed to ask him if he was still interested, he emails back saying yes but I'll have to do better on my pricing??? I don't have to do anything, I'll stick the cue in a case and put it away if that is the situation you know. If I offer to pay an amount for something and the person says ok, thats a deal, you don't then renegotiate the price, or maybe that is how it works now?

 

[cigardave]

DON'T YOU FEEL, THAT A PERSON SHOULD OWN SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO SELL IT? In general, yes... but the person could be looked at as a buyer's agent... they could have a buyer in mind for a high-end cue and they need a little time for their potential buyer to see pictures of your cue to see if the cue is what he/she is looking for. Back to my previous post, if I were the seller, I would not wait on anybody... money speaks.

ALSO, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE CUE BROKER SHOULD HAVE TO RISK THEIR CASH, TO TURN A PROFIT. No, not really. The way I look at it is... the broker is being paid a fee for performing a service on behalf of the buyer... the fee is equal to the price difference between what the seller sells the cue for (to the broker)... and what the buyer pays for it (to the broker). The broker risks losing out on the sale if he/she doesn't react quickly... or if they do and the buyer backs out of the agreement that they make.

I HAD TO PUT MY CASH OUT TO OWN THE CUE, TO MAKE MY MONEY. True... but you took possession of the cue... either to use it... or to sell it down the road. The broker is not looking to do either... but just to be paid for finding a buyer of the cue. In essense, the buyer pays the broker's fee... and could be looked at as performing a service for you (finding you a buyer)... and, an additional benefit, you're not paying the broker's fee... the buyer is.

I'M NOT LOOKING TO START AN ARGUMENT, I'M JUST CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOU THINK.

See above answers in red.

 

[Bamacues]

I KNOW HOW I WOULD HAVE HANDLED THIS SITUATION. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS HAPPENS.

I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE GUYS IN MY POOLROOM HAVE ME LOOKING FOR CUES, AND TELL ME WHAT THEY CAN AFFORD. I FIND THEM SOMETHING, TELL THEM ABOUT IT, AND THAY TELL ME IT HAS TO BE LESS. I HATE GOING BACK TO THE SELLER, I TRY TO GET A NUMBER FROM MY CUSTOMER BEFORE I EVEN MAKE AN OFFER TO THE SELLER. AND THE BEST PART OF THOSE SITUATIONS, IS THAT I'M NOT MAKING ANY MONEY TO DO THE LEG WORK, I'M JUST HELPING OUT A FRIEND.

I hate that also, Marcus. I don't want to be in the middle trying to negotiate a sale for a prospective buyer. I just tell the potential buyer to contact the potential seller and they can work it all out.

As for using your photographs to try to sell something they don't belong, I am against it. I certainly don't mind anyone trying to make a profit, and I usually try to price my stuff at a level where a person can do that...makes it more attractive and easier to sell. But unless you have asked my permission, you are not entitled to use my photography. Also, if you want a sale, buy the product first, then do whatever you want.

I spent 35 years as a professional photographer/visual information specialist. I try to take decent pictures of my goods, but I don't want to put too much effort into it anymore, however, there is an implied copyright issue involved here. It can be quite costly to use someone else's work and claim it as your own.
Joe

"The Berne Copyright Convention
Under a convention of the Copyright Law (Unites States Copyright Act, TITLE I7, SEC. 101, OCT. 19, 1976, 90 STAT) called the Berne Copyright Convention, all creative works are copywritten the moment they're in a tangible form.

Tangible form means almost anything other than in your head. Simply dreaming of the world's greatest Web site isn't enough to protect your ideas by Copyright. But once it's in a material form, it's protected. This means that, regardless of whether or not you see a Copyright noticed affixed to a newspaper, Web page, piece of fine art—it's most likely Copyright material, if it's original."

 

[hangemhigh]

A lot of pimps got money on their minds,not ethics or the pleasures derived from cue collecting. When they see the cue,they see dollars. When they show the cue photos, you can best bet that they will not let the same thing happen to them. You think they would tell another flipper where the cue really is? He will be sure that any transaction goes through him. Just the way it is.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

See above answers in red.

I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. I ALWAYS HAVE GUYS ON THE LOOK OUT FOR CUES FOR ME. DIFFERENCE IS, IF YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL BUYER, TELL ME THAT. DON'T OFFER MY CUE TO HALF OF THE CUE WORLD, AND THEN TELL ME KNOW. IF I OFFER A CUE TO A DEALER, AND HE SAYS, I MAY HAVE A BUYER, I'LL LET YOU KNOW, I CAN RESPECT THAT. BUT DOING IT BEHIND MY BACK, AND TO NUMEROUS BUYERS JUST ISN'T RIGHT. I HAVE OFFERED CUES TO DEALERS, AT GREAT PRICES KNOWING THEY HAVE A BUYER, AND THAT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY. I KNOW THAT'S HOW IT WORKS, THAT IS WHY I HAVE PEOPLE WILLING TO HELP ME FIND CUES, BECAUSE I DO FAVORS FOR THEM. BUT THOSE GUYS, WOULDN'T OFFER MY CUE FOR SALE WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.

 

[Danktrees]

1.DON'T YOU FEEL, THAT A PERSON SHOULD OWN SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO SELL IT? In general, yes... but the person could be looked at as a buyer's agent... they could have a buyer in mind for a high-end cue and they need a little time for their potential buyer to see pictures of your cue to see if the cue is what he/she is looking for. Back to my previous post, if I were the seller, I would not wait on anybody... money speaks.

2.ALSO, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE CUE BROKER SHOULD HAVE TO RISK THEIR CASH, TO TURN A PROFIT. No, not really. The way I look at it is... the broker is being paid a fee for performing a service on behalf of the buyer... the fee is equal to the price difference between what the seller sells the cue for (to the broker)... and what the buyer pays for it (to the broker). The broker risks losing out on the sale if he/she doesn't react quickly... or if they do and the buyer backs out of the agreement that they make.

3.I HAD TO PUT MY CASH OUT TO OWN THE CUE, TO MAKE MY MONEY. True... but you took possession of the cue... either to use it... or to sell it down the road. The broker is not looking to do either... but just to be paid for finding a buyer of the cue. In essense, the buyer pays the broker's fee... and could be looked at as performing a service for you (finding you a buyer)... and, an additional benefit, you're not paying the broker's fee... the buyer is.

this is a response to dave's answers in red.

1. buyer's agent? i would agree with ur point except for the fact that if i never asked for u to be my agent to begin with, u shouldnt be acting like one.

2. that is not the issue we're talking about. we've already agreed (right from the first post) that there is nothing wrong with a broker. but there is something wrong if u try to act as my broker when i never told u to. this is discussed in point #3. and the broker doesnt risk losing anything as they dont have anything invested anyways. u cant lose if u have nothing invested...so i dont know what point u were trying to make there.

3. as we've already said, nothing wrong with getting a broker. but if people do it without u asking them to then there is something wrong. if i never told u to become my agent/broker then u have no right to use my products to make profit for urself. how can u justify someone taking ur product and selling it when u never told them to? also, i would not consider this a service since i never asked for it in the first place. i see it more of an annoyance than anything. additional benefit u mentioned isnt a benefit at all. i'd rather pay a broker fee than give him the profit he got from selling my cue without having it. usually the profit is much higher than any brokerage fee i would pay so i dont see how that benefits me at all.

 

[cueaddicts]

I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. I ALWAYS HAVE GUYS ON THE LOOK OUT FOR CUES FOR ME. DIFFERENCE IS, IF YOU HAVE A POTENTIAL BUYER, TELL ME THAT. DON'T OFFER MY CUE TO HALF OF THE CUE WORLD, AND THEN TELL ME KNOW. IF I OFFER A CUE TO A DEALER, AND HE SAYS, I MAY HAVE A BUYER, I'LL LET YOU KNOW, I CAN RESPECT THAT. BUT DOING IT BEHIND MY BACK, AND TO NUMEROUS BUYERS JUST ISN'T RIGHT. I HAVE OFFERED CUES TO DEALERS, AT GREAT PRICES KNOWING THEY HAVE A BUYER, AND THAT THEY CAN MAKE MONEY. I KNOW THAT'S HOW IT WORKS, THAT IS WHY I HAVE PEOPLE WILLING TO HELP ME FIND CUES, BECAUSE I DO FAVORS FOR THEM. BUT THOSE GUYS, WOULDN'T OFFER MY CUE FOR SALE WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE.

Marcus, you are very much in the right to be offended by the situation you've described. I think it would piss off anyone who considers themself an honest, up-front individual. People would be surprised if they knew some of the shady, behind-the-back things that have been orchestrated by some when commencing certain cue deals......

 

[socks]

i think this practice in unethical as well, but to this specific reply to a different reply, i think you misinterpreted his reposnse. he ment a broker on behalf of the buyer. say your a buyer looking for a cue, you got joe blow and say i'm looking for a cue with these specs in this price range. joe blow then scoures the net or whatever and find pics of jim blows cue. then takes those pics back to you as a buyer and says, what do you think of this one.

and this is a valid response for a flipper to use to justify doing this, but i agree with the poster on this one. if they gonna do this, theres no issue as long as they inform the maker that this is what they are doing.

 

[Danktrees]

but i dont think that's the situation he's addressing. if they are asked by buyers to look for this stuff, they would not posting it or sending it to numerous other ppl. they would be sending it to 1 person. also, they wouldnt be sending it back to u in their mass emails. so i dont think the situation is as u described where someone commissioned another person to find the cue.

 

[socks]

[quote =cigardave]
1.DON'T YOU FEEL, THAT A PERSON SHOULD OWN SOMETHING TO BE ABLE TO SELL IT? In general, yes... but the person could be looked at as a buyer's agent... they could have a buyer in mind for a high-end cue and they need a little time for their potential buyer to see pictures of your cue to see if the cue is what he/she is looking for. Back to my previous post, if I were the seller, I would not wait on anybody... money speaks.

2.ALSO, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE CUE BROKER SHOULD HAVE TO RISK THEIR CASH, TO TURN A PROFIT. No, not really. The way I look at it is... the broker is being paid a fee for performing a service on behalf of the buyer... the fee is equal to the price difference between what the seller sells the cue for (to the broker)... and what the buyer pays for it (to the broker). The broker risks losing out on the sale if he/she doesn't react quickly... or if they do and the buyer backs out of the agreement that they make.

3.I HAD TO PUT MY CASH OUT TO OWN THE CUE, TO MAKE MY MONEY. True... but you took possession of the cue... either to use it... or to sell it down the road. The broker is not looking to do either... but just to be paid for finding a buyer of the cue. In essense, the buyer pays the broker's fee... and could be looked at as performing a service for you (finding you a buyer)... and, an additional benefit, you're not paying the broker's fee... the buyer is.
[/quote]

this is a response to dave's answers in red.

1. buyer's agent? i would agree with ur point except for the fact that if i never asked for u to be my agent to begin with, u shouldnt be acting like one.

2. that is not the issue we're talking about. we've already agreed (right from the first post) that there is nothing wrong with a broker. but there is something wrong if u try to act as my broker when i never told u to. this is discussed in point #3. and the broker doesnt risk losing anything as they dont have anything invested anyways. u cant lose if u have nothing invested...so i dont know what point u were trying to make there.

3. as we've already said, nothing wrong with getting a broker. but if people do it without u asking them to then there is something wrong. if i never told u to become my agent/broker then u have no right to use my products to make profit for urself. how can u justify someone taking ur product and selling it when u never told them to? also, i would not consider this a service since i never asked for it in the first place. i see it more of an annoyance than anything. additional benefit u mentioned isnt a benefit at all. i'd rather pay a broker fee than give him the profit he got from selling my cue without having it. usually the profit is much higher than any brokerage fee i would pay so i dont see how that benefits me at all.

silly me, i forgot to quote what i was referancing. sorry for the duplicate.

i think this practice in unethical as well, but to this specific reply to a different reply, i think you misinterpreted his reposnse. he ment a broker on behalf of the buyer. say your a buyer looking for a cue, you got joe blow and say i'm looking for a cue with these specs in this price range. joe blow then scoures the net or whatever and find pics of jim blows cue. then takes those pics back to you as a buyer and says, what do you think of this one.

and this is a valid response for a flipper to use to justify doing this, but i agree with the poster on this one. if they gonna do this, theres no issue as long as they inform the maker that this is what they are doing.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

silly me, i forgot to quote what i was referancing. sorry for the duplicate.

i think this practice in unethical as well, but to this specific reply to a different reply, i think you misinterpreted his reposnse. he ment a broker on behalf of the buyer. say your a buyer looking for a cue, you got joe blow and say i'm looking for a cue with these specs in this price range. joe blow then scoures the net or whatever and find pics of jim blows cue. then takes those pics back to you as a buyer and says, what do you think of this one.

and this is a valid response for a flipper to use to justify doing this, but i agree with the poster on this one. if they gonna do this, theres no issue as long as they inform the maker that this is what they are doing.

I'M NOT REFERRING TO A BUYERS AGENT. IF I KNOW WHAT SOMEBODY IS DOING, I DON'T CARE. BUT A BUYERS AGENT DOESNT SEND THE INFORMATION TO AN ENTIRE LIST OF PEOPLE, HE SENDS THE INFO TO THE PERSON LOOKING.

 

[FAST_N_LOOSE]

Marcus, you are very much in the right to be offended by the situation you've described. I think it would piss off anyone who considers themself an honest, up-front individual. People would be surprised if they knew some of the shady, behind-the-back things that have been orchestrated by some when commencing certain cue deals......

I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE STORIES I HAVE HEARD ABOUT THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED HAVE MADE ME VERY NERVOUS ABOUT STAYING INVOLVED IN THIS HOBBY. I AM ALSO SURE THAT THERE ARE MANY MORE STORIES THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD YET.

 

[manwon]

It only bothers me when they try to haggle on the price the next day or so...so that they can increase 'their' profit. I have nothing against people making money. So long as i make mine first! I once sent pics of a cue to someone, and never heard from them again. The following year the pics were on Ebay...MY pics. I still had the cue!! The potential buyer did not listen to my warnings, and he got burnt for about 2500....

It only bothers me when they try to haggle on the price the next day or so...so that they can increase 'their' profit.

Well said!!!!

 

[socks]

I'M NOT REFERRING TO A BUYERS AGENT. IF I KNOW WHAT SOMEBODY IS DOING, I DON'T CARE. BUT A BUYERS AGENT DOESNT SEND THE INFORMATION TO AN ENTIRE LIST OF PEOPLE, HE SENDS THE INFO TO THE PERSON LOOKING.

and as you see from the first sentance and the last sentance, i agreed with you, all that buyers agent dribble was in response to danktrees response to cigardaves response.