A question on pool etiquette !

[mm4pool]

When someone is in violation of this "code of ethics", can they be penalized? By who? Does it happen? Or is a forearm shiver more the norm?

KK9, there is not a specific penalty for the ethics violation. however there is a section on the score sheet for a team sportsmanship rating from 1 to 5. i have been told by our LO that if something of this nature happens to mark them with a low rating and if the situation warrants it to write a brief explanation of the incident on the back of the score sheet. the LO with talk to the offending party and if the behavior continues then the team can be penalized by loss of bonus points. if enough teams would report such behavior then the problem would eventually be corrected. JMHO.

Mike :thumbup:

 

[poolpro]

Well, I COMPLETELY understand how the op felt in this situation. I currently play in 2 apa leagues as a 7.

You have to keep it in perspective. You prob over reacted a bit too. I mean you just had the match in hand and made a match losing error. So, at the same moment that sinks in you hear cheering, you are not in the best state at that precise moment. I know it doesn't sit well, and it can sting a bit at that moment, but just chalk it as another game over.

While I know that certain players and teams can overdo it, it is a team sport and you are keeping score. It matters more to some than others. Some are more vocal than others, etc.

While I get that there is a distinction between cheering for your team, and against the other team, sometimes you are splitting hairs.

You made a match deciding error, where you just seconds ago were most likely the favorite to win. It was an unexpected turn of events. People are reacting emotionally ( as were you). It is not a thoughtful and calculated response. I am 99% sure it was not a personal slant towards you. It is just an expression of relief that their guy won ( no matter how), when it seemed unlikely.

As for cheering for good play or opponents misfortune. I have a hard time seeing the difference in MANY cases. I mean it is all relative! If I am playing great it is good fortune for me, and is just as UNfortunate for my opponent! My last match, I broke and ran the very first game. If my team says " great game!" are they cheering for me, or for the misfortune of my opponent? If I run 2 more racks, it would be very unfortunate for my opponent. He is an even WORSE situation than you were, because he did not even get a chance! He can't think " maybe I should have played safe, etc".

I have been on both sides of this many, many times. I know you have too.

The bottom line is it is LEAGUE play. I happen to actually enjoy league play overall. Yes, it has its problems, but overall, I like it. It is not the same as tournament pool, or gamblng sessions. It is its own animal.

You just have to understand what you are getting yourself into, and have a proper mindset. Shrug it off.


Also, keep in mind that more games are LOST than are won! You are ALWAYS winning untill you make a mistake! Than your opponent is winning until he makes a mistake, on and on.

My last match I lost hill/hill due to a scratch on the break. We were both playing run out pool. We each had a break and run. We were averaging 1 inning a game at most. I was breaking real well all night. That was only my second scratch of the night. It was unfortunate. My 2 scratches cost me 3 games. I knew he was going to be out for sure. What are ya gonna do?



Jw

 

[houmatroy]

Thx everyone for your thoughts on it !

I've pretty much shrugged it off...I'm sure if ida still won the match after it woulda felt better..when it happened it put him on 3..then i split games with him..win the next one to get on hill then I finally get some good action on the cueball on the break...make 4 balls and scatch...and he has to do like 5 stop shots to win the match...Just thought it was funny when i called him out on it...he said sorry..u know but you'd do the same...I told him..NO..that's where you wrong..I wouldn't have...Just one of those matches where you feel like you've angered the pool gods & getting punished for it..lol:grin:

 

[pt109]

Consideration

The best players should lead by EXAMPLE.
That's what heroes are for.

 

[justadub]

As I'm the guy on the other end of the "7 vs" type of match, I'm usually quite quick to state "thanks, I sure need the help" with a smile. Trying to deflect it for my opponent, who clearly shoots better than me.

It's bad enough for me when I scratch, so I feel for the top players who have a case of bad luck when they're playing me. Doesn't stop me from taking the win, if I get it. Because I do want to win. But you'll never see me or my team acting foolish like that. We have a couple of teams in our league that are pretty active with the cheering and all, so I see where the OP is coming from. I enjoy it all the more when we beat their butts.

 

[jrt30004]

Yeah, 5's will do that, a 7 usually won't. The education gap between a 5 and a 7 is more than just 2 points.

Yeah, didn't show much class on his part.

please don't lump all of us 5's together. while i openly admit i play apa and take a beating on this forum for it.... i and a few others i know are more serious about the game than this show of poor sportmanship. i find it in very poor taste to do anything like that. i also do not get overly enthusiastic about a great win i may get due to my playing well. i know the majority of league players are there for fun and are very lacking in the class department but there are many of us out there regardless of handicap that do take this seriously and would never do that. i play both apa and bca and my teams often post me against the higher skill level players (bca there's no choice - you play everyone one game) and i manage to have a decent record. whether i win or loose there is always a handshake and usually a conversation (if the other player feels like talking) about good shots, mistakes, lucky rolls etc. i am currently a 5 sometimes 6 in the apa and running an 8 average in bca - which shocks the hell out me, i think it's because there are much better players in my bca division and i bear down more against them because i hate to loose. but i cringe when i see poeple from the other team cheering every shot made by their player every mistake made by the oppostion and really sink in my chair when the player himself is doing it. i think my worst habbit is talking to myself - or the balls, saying things like get in the f*cking hole (yeah i know - i am embarrased by my profanity too, but i cuss like a sailor and i am taking steps to reduce the amount of foul language i use). but i never direct anything towards the other player. i just wanted say please don't lump us all together. some of us really do try and aspire to play better and want the game to grow. therefore we try to treat the game and the players with respect.

 

[houmatroy]

Cheering opponent scratches, at times, comes with the territory in most league play. That you didn't get that and reacted, makes you a horrible person unfit for coexistence. No TV for a week. J/K!

It's a shame people do that. It almost seems unfathomable to me that it's nearly commonplace. Welcome back to league play Troy!

Lol...:grin:

 

[3RAILKICK]

Needle unnecessary?

It stings. We all would prefer to earn the win -wouldn't we?

Between better, more experience players, in league play-you seldom see the big celebration for the ill-timed/ game changing scratch. I think it's a mutual respect thing.

Between players of considerably different skill levels, as in this post-too often the player or team is not just happy to recieve the unlikely 'W" but feels it has something to joyously celebrate. It might be the alcohol-or maybe they are just trying to rattle you, knowing that you have more games to play in the match.

The 'winning' better players might say-'that aint right'/'that was a bad roll'/'sorry about that' -or something similar to acknowledge that the
outcome was unexpected. The lesser (in many respects) player believes he beat you-therefore the spirited celebration.

A big part of this game -any game or sport- is learning how to win and lose.
That learning process is painful-unless you're clueless or just a natural-born-assh#le. In that case-there's nothing to learn- he'll drink more/praise his occaisional lucky 'wins'/never practice/blame his losses on everything/everybody but himself. He has no respect for the game-just a misplaced opinion of what is important about the game-especially in a social setting.

OK -I'm done whining -for a while.

Note: GAMBLING is not a social setting. Often more difficult to be civil.

Just a rant.

3railkick

"Nice shot honey!!" (when his money ball goes in after three caroms and four rails and the cueball travels 30 feet and hangs in the corner).

Gotta love it

 

[KRJ]

Been there , Done that

I've pretty much shrugged it off...I'm sure if ida still won the match after it woulda felt better..when it happened it put him on 3..then i split games with him..win the next one to get on hill then I finally get some good action on the cueball on the break...make 4 balls and scatch...and he has to do like 5 stop shots to win the match...Just thought it was funny when i called him out on it...he said sorry..u know but you'd do the same...I told him..NO..that's where you wrong..I wouldn't have...Just one of those matches where you feel like you've angered the pool gods & getting punished for it..lol:grin:

Yeah, we've all been there and done that. And there is always going to be the few obnoxious teams (you know who you are) that act like idiots that just won the US Open. I personally like a low key, quiet, knuckle to knuckle, type high five from a teammate. It says you did good, but your opponent does not get his faced rubbed in it. But the next time it is best to ignore because you being a 7 you look like the sore loser even though you were not upset with match as much as the silly celebrating. There is a reason there are numerous etiquettes books being sold over and over again because for some, they well never learn. That should have been like a poker game where you sucked on a hand and raked the pot. You just smile and say that's poker. Your opponenet should have said "hey, tough loss" and went on his merry way. I play APA too only because it is close to the house. The rules are riduclous and how does having "backwards" rules help anyone learn the game of 8-ball?? We can't even get the amatuer organizatons to play by the same rules. Other sports seem to be able to play with identical rules.

 

[bchilton]

I havn't played league for bout 6 years but just joined back on a friend of mines team...Well i'm playing this guy who is a 5 & I am a 7...I win the 1st 4 games then he wins 2...I try to buckle down cuz i felt my concentration slipping...Well i cinch my last ball in the side and left a back cut on the 8 in the corner....I make the shot but do the dreaded scratch 2 rail in the bottom corner....my opponent starts high fiving his teammates and cheering..I kinda got a lil upset & told him a lil about himself...If he would have run out....made a great shot...or anything like that I would have congradulated him too..But for him to hoop it up on my misfortune...well i just thought it showed a lil lack of class in which I told him so...Just wanted a few others opinions on the matter...I know I should have just bit my tongue but my personality just won't let me do such a thing..lol..would be great to know how other players would handle the same situation.

I definately know how you feel, and have had to fight to keep from over reacting in simular situations.

People underestimate the importance of "psychology" when it comes to playing and winning at pool. By reacting the way that you did played right into his hands. He knew that he had gotten you out of your game and had affected your concentration level. This pumps your opponent up even more and gives him a much bettter chance to go on and win the match.

On the other hand, if you had reacted calmly, let him go ahead with his antics and kept your concentration level up, he would not have seen a "chink" in your armour which would have made him look like more of an ass and wouldn't have given him the mental boost that he would need to go on and win.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't have reacted the same way that you did.

 

[Big Perm]

Methinks you did the right thing.....too many people like to celebrate a lucky break at the misfortune of another player.....it's pathetic.....I'm glad you said something.....it's ugly pool to jump up and down and high five a scratch on the last ball.....

 

[JoeyA]

The Bullseye!

Not all 5's are the same but some are the type you mentioned. If a 5 hooted and hollered after me losing the match or game on a scratch on the 8 ball, I would engrave his image into my brain forever.

I would not give him any lip service but his name would be written into my tombstone black book and every time I saw him and was to play him, I would loudly ask him to put up some table stakes, making sure to mention that he had already beaten me. When he says he doesn't gamble, I would just loudly say "I UNDERSTAND", with a "sleight" smile.

Then, I would simply play a match or game that he could never win at, embarassing him at every turn, leaving him safe or leaving him with shots that he can't make and shots that he can't play safe at. I would not beat him easily and would extend the length of play indefinitely.

I would torture him each and every time that I played him.

I would twist him like a pretzel and when he begged his team captain to not put him against you, I would loudly ask why such a good player as he is prevented from playing you, also with my never-ending sleight smile.

When his own team mates laughed at him missing ball after ball, I would just stare at him, letting him know that I am the one who orchestrated his new job as the court jester and buffoon for all to laugh at.

It would be my goal to engage him at every turn. I would ask my team captain that whenever this guy is going to play against my team that I be given the honor to punish him each and every time.

After each match or game, depending upon the league, I would offer a handshake and give a genuine smile and say, "Good Match or Good Game" always with a knowing look, stabbing deep into his eyes. Other than that, I wouldn't let it bother me one bit.

JoeyA (thinks maybe I should go back and read the CODE OF CONDUCT in the Sticky notes. )

 

[ShootingArts]

my kind of guy!!

Don't show you are angered, don't just get even, make'm pay seven times seven!

Hu

Not all 5's are the same but some are the type you mentioned. If a 5 hooted and hollered after me losing the match or game on a scratch on the 8 ball, I would engrave his image into my brain forever.

I would not give him any lip service but his name would be written into my tombstone black book and every time I saw him and was to play him, I would loudly ask him to put up some table stakes, making sure to mention that he had already beaten me. When he says he doesn't gamble, I would just loudly say "I UNDERSTAND", with a "sleight" smile.

Then, I would simply play a match or game that he could never win at, embarassing him at every turn, leaving him safe or leaving him with shots that he can't make and shots that he can't play safe at. I would not beat him easily and would extend the length of play indefinitely.

I would torture him each and every time that I played him.

I would twist him like a pretzel and when he begged his team captain to not put him against you, I would loudly ask why such a good player as he is prevented from playing you, also with my never-ending sleight smile.

When his own team mates laughed at him missing ball after ball, I would just stare at him, letting him know that I am the one who orchestrated his new job as the court jester and buffoon for all to laugh at.

It would be my goal to engage him at every turn. I would ask my team captain that whenever this guy is going to play against my team that I be given the honor to punish him each and every time.

After each match or game, depending upon the league, I would offer a handshake and give a genuine smile and say, "Good Match or Good Game" always with a knowing look, stabbing deep into his eyes. Other than that, I wouldn't let it bother me one bit.

JoeyA (thinks maybe I should go back and read the CODE OF CONDUCT in the Sticky notes. )

 

[Duane Hinton]

Yeah, 5's will do that, a 7 usually won't. The education gap between a 5 and a 7 is more than just 2 points.

Yeah, didn't show much class on his part.

I've seen less class from most sl7's when they lose to a sl5. I'm a APA sl5 and have beat a couple sl7s. It's a 5-3 race and if you give me three times at the table I'm gonna win the game. If you're upset with that then don't give your opponents a turn at the table. Don't go telling me I'm sandbagging and *****ing about what a cheater I am when you just didn't shoot to your true potential.
I do agree with the OP, there is no reason to celebrate your opponents bad fortune. Still you misplayed the shot by hitting too hard and scratching.

 

[leehayes]

and here I thought it was just me. I had a match recently where after every one of my missed shots the other team clapped. After a few...or more than a few...I approached the captain and quietly asked him for a little respect seeing no one did that to him while he was playing. He was fine with it but another player took great exception to it...needless to say it went well the rest of the night. Thankfully the bartender asked her to leave...lol.
Anyway...I personally think whooping it up when your opponent misses a shot is in quite poor taste.

 

[John Biddle]

Calm down, guys, you're over-reacting. This display of emotion was for a match victory. Are winners not allowed to celebrate? Would this same celebration not happen in every sport you know of?

I think there is a big difference between celebrating the mistakes/misfortunes of others, and celebrating a victory. Had this clapping and hooting/hollering accompanied a scratch earlier in the match, I'd agree with the nearly unanimous sentiment on this thread that the guy and his teammates were way out of line.

But this wasn't in the middle of the match, it was at the very end, and as painful as it must have been to endure, the OP should have just congratulated the winner and held his head up high.

 

[Cue Guru]

I generally ignore this nonsense.

We all (regardless of skill level) get a bad roll once in a while; follow when we should have drawn to change our cue ball angle after contacting the object ball, hit too hard/too soft and scratched/got hooked.

ANY player, regardless of level, who cheers the mis-fortune of others is not the type of person I want to be associated with- and these 'type' of players tend to congregate at APA league nights it seems... (Note that is a generalization and clearly does not apply to ALL who play leagues).

To quote the famous Mr. Horse:

"No sir, I don't like it!"

 

[3RAILKICK]

Entry in black book

I would not give him any lip service but his name would be written into my tombstone black book

JoeyA (thinks maybe I should go back and read the CODE OF CONDUCT in the Sticky notes. )[/QUOTE]


Joey-

Would that page have the tab A##h##e? People earn their way onto this page-very difficult to get removed once there. Joey-we all have made entries on that page in our own book. They go there in ink-not pencil.

Your Code of Conduct is fine as is.

3railkick

Happy Holidays

Keep up the good work commentating

 

[JoeyA]

Calm down, guys, you're over-reacting. This display of emotion was for a match victory. Are winners not allowed to celebrate? Would this same celebration not happen in every sport you know of?

I think there is a big difference between celebrating the mistakes/misfortunes of others, and celebrating a victory. Had this clapping and hooting/hollering accompanied a scratch earlier in the match, I'd agree with the nearly unanimous sentiment on this thread that the guy and his teammates were way out of line.

But this wasn't in the middle of the match, it was at the very end, and as painful as it must have been to endure, the OP should have just congratulated the winner and held his head up high.

I like most everything that you write but I think more than a congratulation is due to the victor. They need to be taught how to be good winners.

I have never clapped, hooted or hollered when someone lost a game to me because they hung up a ball , scratched, miscued or because they got snookered. I actually grimace for my opponent and shake their hand, acknowledging at least in spirit that if not for the unfortunate miss on their end they would have won.

I think the behavior that Troy mentions is at the very minimum, a celebration of victory WITHOUT REGARD to the feelings of your opponent and to me, that just sucks. At worst case, it is a mean-spirited acclamation of the scratch by Troy. No need to rough him up physically or verbally but that person should be put on THE LIST for "forced" cognitive behavioral therapy.

JoeyA

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Absolutely, I've never done that. When I win a game from a scratch. I shake my opponents hand and say good game. We've all scratched on the 8 so we know what it feels like to be on the other end. I'd rather lose and take a 7, knowing that I shot a good game than win by misfortune.