A Report from the Lou v. Barton Match

I have been in a match where someone was being coached. In this case it wasn't allowed and I called them on it. (He was using a cell phone with ear buds) I feel it is a unfair advantage because now you are in essence playing against two players instead of one. And in one pocket, strategy is huge and any advice received about strategy during play can be a game changer.

I don't have any clue about what they are allowing or not allowing so I can speculate on who is right and who is wrong, but I got to admit I would be surprised if anyone would allow coaching on a game like this.
 
when did he admit to being coached? looks like the person was there to just say encouraging words and pumping him up?
 
I ran quite a few handicap snooker and 9-ball tournaments in the 80s.

If a third party was feeding info to a player...
...the one coaching was asked to leave the tournament area.

In the action days at the Rack in Detroit....
...one-pocket with a coach was a game made quite often...
...nobody mistook it for the normal two-handed gambling.
 
At the break neck speed John shoots and make decisions I don't think any coaching could have had any chance of changing anything... "Slow down", "keep him in the trap", "keep away from the flyers" and generalities are not coaching but more of guy in your corner... I always try and find a guy in my corner or put one there to help with tension during matches... I'll find someone in the crowd to interact with if I can.... Until I have more substantiated evidence I call BS...
 
BasementDweller said:
While watching I don't recall a time when John was slow to approach the table. I'm not saying there wasn't any coaching going on but I bet it didn't have a lot to do with the outcome of the match last night.
Click to expand...

I watched a 3-4 hours of it, on and off, John was playing so fast and loose there is no chance he was being coached... Never heard anyone in the booth utter a peep about it, even when I was multitasking work and the stream I still had my ear bud in for the audio. If this had been the ass stomping most thought it would be I doubt coaching would have ever been mentioned. But, it's no fun when the rabbit has a gun......
 
kollegedave said:
Those of you who have been sweating this match may have noticed John’s rough start. You also may have noticed that several games into the match the quality of John’s decisions improved and he began shooting more sophisticated shots. For example, John took an intentional behind two balls on the spot at one point that put Lou in a tough spot.

There was an African American man sitting next to Barton and his wife. Lou could not see this man at first. From Lou’s perspective, this guy was behind a pillar. Between shots, this man would cover his mouth and whisper to Barton.

A couple of guys who were sweating the match that had a different perspective than Lou noticed this, but they did not say anything.

After play last night, Barton was confronted with the accusation that he was being coached; he admitted it.

There are some things people should notice about the actions of John Barton in this match:

1) He barked at Lou incessantly to raise the bet, and then failed to do so

2) Barton claimed that he would take all sorts of bets on side, including an additional $500 a game with Lou, and he failed to do that

3) John and Lou negotiated all sorts of rules and stipulations prior to this match, which Barton very publicly made reference to at least once last night after he moved a bunch of balls with a follow-through on a shot; NO WHERE in their negotiations was there a provision that allowed either player to receive coaching.

In my view, and in the view of people in Lou’s camp, Barton cheated for a good portion of last night’s action.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

Cant forget about #4, a prelude to #2: John ran his mouth, taking several internet side bets. Then he suddenly cancels them all without even telling the people he bet with. Bad way of conducting business.
 
The Renfro said:
At the break neck speed John shoots and make decisions I don't think any coaching could have had any chance of changing anything... "Slow down", "keep him in the trap", "keep away from the flyers" and generalities are not coaching but more of guy in your corner... I always try and find a guy in my corner or put one there to help with tension during matches... I'll find someone in the crowd to interact with if I can.... Until I have more substantiated evidence I call BS...[/QUOTE

I tend to agree - just seems like this couldn't go on without the other side catching on. But I will say there were some intelligent moves that seemed to not be in Barton's table "personality."
Click to expand...
 
8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball... I dont care who says what to my opponent when he is NOT at the table. One pocket, different story. Most pool games are about pocketing balls and i could care less if someone is being coached. However, One Pocket is more about strategy than ball pocketing, so like someone else said, you are playing 2 people instead of one if they are being coached.
 
Is coaching the opponent allowed? LOL

I have a (bad?) habit of giving tips to my opponents if they are clearly a level under me in league and small tournaments. Things like "you may want to think about a safe here" or playing in this pocket will get you easier position on the next shot".

One of my very favorite things in pool is watching someone improve after I helped them a bit, I'd rank that feeling up there with playing a perfect game.
 
kollegedave said:
Those of you who have been sweating this match may have noticed John’s rough start. You also may have noticed that several games into the match the quality of John’s decisions improved and he began shooting more sophisticated shots. For example, John took an intentional behind two balls on the spot at one point that put Lou in a tough spot.

There was an African American man sitting next to Barton and his wife. Lou could not see this man at first. From Lou’s perspective, this guy was behind a pillar. Between shots, this man would cover his mouth and whisper to Barton.

A couple of guys who were sweating the match that had a different perspective than Lou noticed this, but they did not say anything.

After play last night, Barton was confronted with the accusation that he was being coached; he admitted it.

There are some things people should notice about the actions of John Barton in this match:

1) He barked at Lou incessantly to raise the bet, and then failed to do so

2) Barton claimed that he would take all sorts of bets on side, including an additional $500 a game with Lou, and he failed to do that

3) John and Lou negotiated all sorts of rules and stipulations prior to this match, which Barton very publicly made reference to at least once last night after he moved a bunch of balls with a follow-through on a shot; NO WHERE in their negotiations was there a provision that allowed either player to receive coaching.

In my view, and in the view of people in Lou’s camp, Barton cheated for a good portion of last night’s action.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

How does this list have anything to do with alleged coaching??
 
How has this thread gotten to 3 pages already?

I call BS. Is there anyone on this board who, if they were playing for $10,000, would just "not say anything" if your opponent was being coached? Would anyone just let it go if they saw the other player being coached when they were backing someone for $10k (or a chunk of it)?

Anyone?

...didn't think so.
 
As I appreciate both John and Lou, I was hoping this would go off without any shenanigans.

Now we have possible coaching, as well as one of the backers having to be removed to stop intimidating one of the players, who lost both games played before the removal.

Maybe today it will just be pool?
 
hang-the-9 said:
Is coaching the opponent allowed? LOL

I have a (bad?) habit of giving tips to my opponents if they are clearly a level under me in league and small tournaments. Things like "you may want to think about a safe here" or playing in this pocket will get you easier position on the next shot".

One of my very favorite things in pool is watching someone improve after I helped them a bit, I'd rank that feeling up there with playing a perfect game.
Click to expand...

You're my kinda guy :thumbup:

I'm usually playing with people that are much worse than me (just occasional players), or my FIL who can pocket real well, but not play the strategy game. When I'm playing, I'm usually focusing on learning stuff, I don't care much if I win or lose in those sorts of games.
 
Ordinarily two C or on a good day B players playing one pocket would cause people to fall asleep. Add some cash to the equation and you get sharking, coaching and all kinds of other drama.
 
The Renfro said:
At the break neck speed John shoots and make decisions I don't think any coaching could have had any chance of changing anything... "Slow down", "keep him in the trap", "keep away from the flyers" and generalities are not coaching but more of guy in your corner... I always try and find a guy in my corner or put one there to help with tension during matches... I'll find someone in the crowd to interact with if I can.... Until I have more substantiated evidence I call BS...
Click to expand...

Its very easy to say quickly
"Thin the 11 and go one rail into the stack"
"take an intentional up into the corner on his side"
"bank the 4 and follow uptable onto his side"

we could go on and on with examples that can be uttered in 2-3 sec easily.

If its true that Barton was getting coached during the match, then I would agree that was cheating.

Its suppose to be Barton vs Lou. Not Barton (and unnamed great player as a coach) vs Lou.
 
KollegeDave, why dont you come out with it and name this player who was coaching Barton?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top