A Shot At Willie's Record

[Bob Jewett]

It is a great idea and you can thank Bob Jewett. Go check out the 14.1 forum on this as a 14.1 high run competition at professional events has been ongoing for a coupla years now. The prize fund last time for breaking the record was $20,000 posted by Bob. This is in addition to the prize money for top finishers in the high run competition.

Thanks for the tip o'the hat, Dan.

The Derby City Straight Pool Challenge has been going on for 7 years. At first I thought it might produce a 527, but I'm now pretty doubtful that it will happen on a Diamond with pro-cut pockets. The best run under those conditions so far is in the low 200s. I think my $20k was perfectly safe. On a table with softer pockets and clean balls I think you might see it in 10 years.

Mosconi's run was on a 4x8 but I was told by George Rood who owned that pool room shortly after the record was set that the pockets were not particularly large. I think that if you offered a good-sized prize for the highest run in a year on such a table you would see several 400-ball runs per year.

Mosconi's run was past the exhibition match length, but I think it's fair to count it as a record exhibition run. I think a run in a high-run competition is more impressive.

The date that Mosconi set his high run is actually very interesting from the point of view of pool politics. Read his autobiography (Willie's Game) to find out why.

 

[suprnva]

I've heard before that Oliver Ortmann has run 600+ numerous times. I have no clue if this is true or not and if true what the conditions (match or practice or what) were, but I heard nobody considers it a record because it wasn't done in the USA.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Why should TAR put up the money? Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is a bad idea.

I Think it would be great if TAR was involved in the recording of it, however, I think this should be a player funded proposition.

Here's how I think it should work.

Players, pay an attempt fee to TAR, this would cover their time with the remaining money going into a fund. Players would then book recording time with TAR, get 1 attempt with a re-buy option.

This way the fund will build over time and there should be some pretty good attempts recorded.

I think the attempt fee should have more then 1 attempt in it... maybe like 5 tries for a grand or something like that. How many times have you or anyone you've seen setup a a rack of 14.1 and a break ball and bust it wide open just to completely miss the break ball?

Either that or dont make it count as an attempt until after they successfully make the second break ball.

 

[Dan White]

I think he generally played the town champ or something, but back then there weren't a whole lot of world class players to choose from like there are now and even then, among world beaters, not many had a realistic shot at beating Mosconi anyways.

My father had a conversation with Mosconi about this subject. My father asked if it was difficult to have some guy gunning for him every town he went to. He said in effect that they didn't really have a chance because

1) they're playing Willie Mosconi
2) they've been anticipating the match for weeks
3) the guy's girlfriend and his family are all watching
and so on.

All the pressure was on the opponent, not Mosconi. Add that to the fact he was better than them anyway...

 

[AtLarge]

I dont think the TAR table is setup to have a player run 527+ balls. That table is double tough from what I have heard and read. ...

Right; no chance at beating 526 with the 4 1/8" pockets. But the rails can be changed, and they may already have a set with more forgiving pockets.

 

[doitforthegame]

It takes skill beyond imagination and luck plays a tremendous part.

Whoa there! You must not be a straight pool player! My Good God I never, ever, ever had a straight pool player mention the "L" word when it came to playing "the great game" of straight pool. It was total skill as opposed to 9 ball. And there is no need even mentioning 8 ball. Arrogance ran supreme with the straight pool players when I owned my poolroom.

Bob

 

[rayshooter22]

Exhibition, yes, but he still had an opponent so it was in an actual match, he didn't just start off with an ideal break shot like you would in a high run competition. His run has been broken several times just practicing.

And he missed, he didn't just stop.

I think a more adequate situation for an attempt at the record would be to hold the competition on similar playing conditions as Willy played on. Specifically table and pocket size. I think most straight pool players would agree that running any significant numbers on a Diamond table is much harder than doing so on a brunswick, especially one of the size pockets I've heard Willy made his run on.

Setting up a match between two players to try and break the record is a little impractical I think. Not only does it complicate the matter by having to schedule for two players, but also makes it less likely that someone will get up and run 100 after they've just had 2 or 300 put on them. I think most audience members would probably be fine in watching someone have their own turn at the table to break the record... Not too many would argue that it isn't valid because they had an ideal break shot to begin with .

 

[alstl]

I like Justin's end of that deal.

 

[Dan White]

Thanks for the tip o'the hat, Dan.

Sure thing. From the banter going on about how to do it, I'm not sure anybody saw my post.

 

[Alf Taylor]

Whoa there! You must not be a straight pool player! My Good God I never, ever, ever had a straight pool player mention the "L" word when it came to playing "the great game" of straight pool. It was total skill as opposed to 9 ball. And there is no need even mentioning 8 ball. Arrogance ran supreme with the straight pool players when I owned my poolroom.

Bob

My my, Robert. Aren't we the sensitive straight pool purist. Sorry if I offended you with the "L" word remark. You're absolutely right. I grew up in the south and don't know the first thing about straight pool...Oh! Wait a minute: I do know the first thing about it: It's a suck action game.
Keep it nice. Alfie

"Straight pool players like to play twenty points for a cigar"
Rudolph Walter "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone

 

[barboxbanks]

So.. what happened to the table the record was set on anyway? Also wouldn't be only fair if the new record was set under the same conditions as Mosconi did? Same table, balls, cloth. chalk etc.. eliminate all the technology. To me honestly, this record is one of those that I am perfectly fine if it NEVER gets broken.

 

[doitforthegame]

My my, Robert. Aren't we the sensitive straight pool purist. Sorry if I offended you with the "L" word remark. You're absolutely right. I grew up in the south and don't know the first thing about straight pool...Oh! Wait a minute: I do know the first thing about it: It's a suck action game.
Keep it nice. Alfie

"Straight pool players like to play twenty points for a cigar"
Rudolph Walter "Minnesota Fats" Wanderone

Alfie- sorry...you misunderstood my sarcasm/humor. I totally agree with you! Believe me I am the opposite of a straight pool purist. I play it every once in a blue moon but the game doesn't hold my interest (mostly). I was actually teasing the straight pool guys. Sorry for the confusion.

Bob

 

[Celtic]

Willies "record" ball run is irrelevant and the least impressive thing he did in his career. I think his absolute dominance of professional pool and almost 15 yeras straight as world champion and the number 1 player in the world is his true legacy.

The ball run "record" was done on a 8 foot table, the pockets were supposedly large, and it is stated that a few people have actually already run more balls then that record but it was not official due to a lack of witnesses.

To beat the "record" would require the same table setup, the same large pockets and the same 8 foot table. To have people try to beat the record on a different sized table with different sized pockets is pointless and would prove nothing, and noone wants to see people mess around on a 8 foot table with large pockets.

The real record that would be cool to see beaten would be seeing a player rise to the top of the game and dominate it as the clear #1 player in the world for decades like Mosconi did. We have not had a player do anything remotely close to that in this sport since Lassiter's prime over 40 years ago. To see that type of dominance though is going to take a radical change in the tables the game is played on, things need to get alot tougher so that the second teir pros can no longer go toe to toe with the true top pros and we really start to see the top teir segregate and see a clear #1 player on the planet emerge.