about this shot

[evergruven]

shooting the 1, trying to get shape on the 6-
there are different ways to hit it, but I'm curious about one in particular
hit well, putting low and inside/right english on the cb leaves it nicely behind the 6 for a shot in the same pocket as the 1
intellectually, I know this because I've done it. but for some reason it's difficult for me to visualize exactly how this happens
this shot is counterintuitive to me, but it works.

questions:
do you like hitting the shot this way? why/why not?
why does this shot work?
can you please explain how this seemingly "wrong" spin ends up turning into nice spin for position?

 

[Zerksies]

I hit the one with high inside pocketing the six in the other corner pocket. It's a funny looking angle to try going two rails and pocketing the six in the same pocket as the one. With going several rails on the six ball you need to travel alot further to get into the target zone and the zone is alot smaller then going one rail. If i had more of a cut on the one ball I would probably try the two rail shot.

 

[Island Drive]

shooting the 1, trying to get shape on the 6-
there are different ways to hit it, but I'm curious about one in particular
hit well, putting low and inside/right english on the cb leaves it nicely behind the 6 for a shot in the same pocket as the 1
intellectually, I know this because I've done it. but for some reason it's difficult for me to visualize exactly how this happens
this shot is counterintuitive to me, but it works.

questions:
do you like hitting the shot this way? why/why not?
why does this shot work?
can you please explain how this seemingly "wrong" spin ends up turning into nice spin for position?

When you strike the cue ball with r/h spin it squirts to the left as it moves forward.
The more swing speed applied to the cue ball hit off center, the more it squirts/moves to the left when hit on it's right side.
Anytime to strike the cue ball with outside spin, it Naturally/Has too push it the opposite direction.
Like a beach ball struck off center, with a 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock hit, it goes forward but slightly to the right when hit on the left side and vise versa.

Very good question evergreen.

 

[skiergd011013]

thats a tricky little shot. I, like many, hate inside english, and if i can avoid it, I will. I am almost inclined to hit this shot hard, with outside, letting the outside throw the ball in, and stun the cueball two rails to the middle of the table near where the cb is now.

 

[sparkle84]

shooting the 1, trying to get shape on the 6-
there are different ways to hit it, but I'm curious about one in particular
hit well, putting low and inside/right english on the cb leaves it nicely behind the 6 for a shot in the same pocket as the 1
intellectually, I know this because I've done it. but for some reason it's difficult for me to visualize exactly how this happens
this shot is counterintuitive to me, but it works.

questions:
do you like hitting the shot this way? why/why not?
why does this shot work?
can you please explain how this seemingly "wrong" spin ends up turning into nice spin for position?

I don't like hitting it that way. The margin of error is very small.
There are 3 better ways to hit this shot.
Doing it the way you described you need perfect tip position, stroke and speed for success.

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm not a fan of that choice. By hitting it low and inside, you're applying 2 opposing forces. Assuming you're using a bit of speed, you're widening angle off of the 1 ball with low, so the cb hits the rail farther to the left -- guaranteeing that you'll avoid hitting the 6 on the way up off the bottom rail. The inside spin then cuts down the angle the cb would naturally come off that rail, giving you position on the 6 to the same pocket. What I don't like about that choice is that the cb could be drifting to a stop rolling towards the side rail and you could wind up with the cb sitting on the side rail. If you allow it to hit the second rail, then you have very little room for the cb to stop in position. So you're very limited with this choice.

Whenever possible, I prefer to have the cb drifting to a stop rolling away from a rail rather than towards it, but into a zone with a wider margin for error. So for me, this this is a two-rail shot. Depending on how it looks as I'm standing over the shot, I may or may not choose to use running side spin, but not reverse if I want it to land on the left side of the 6. I may even choose to pass the 6 off the 2nd rail and shoot it into the left corner pocket.

If I'm going to make it a one-rail shot, then I'll use about 2 tips of inside with topspin to really reverse the angle off the bottom rail and keep the cb on the right side of the 6. The extreme angle reverse slows down the cb substantially, giving you pretty good position but you have to be proficient at controlling the cb with reverse and have an understanding of how the cb slows down off a rail with reverse depending on the angle you're reversing.

A third option is a draw shot, bringing the cb back off the 1 over the spot for position on the 6 in the same pocket. If the cloth is in good shape and reacts well to draw shots, I might choose that option first.

I think Allison Fisher said it best: "It depends on how I feel when I wake up in the morning."

 

[measureman]

Whats wrong with a center hit draw shot and the cue ball comes back near the spot?

 

[Island Drive]

Because with r/h draw, you're able to hit the obj. ball a skosh fatter utilizing the spin to cut the ball more. Anytime your able to hit the obj ball with less cut to get shape, your cue ball control is better.

 

[sparkle84]

Because with r/h draw, you're able to hit the obj. ball a skosh fatter utilizing the spin to cut the ball more. Anytime your able to hit the obj ball with less cut to get shape, your cue ball control is better.

I think you mean left.

 

[Bob Jewett]

shooting the 1, trying to get shape on the 6-
... putting low and inside/right english on the cb leaves it nicely behind the 6 for a shot in the same pocket as the 1
....

Does the cue ball hit any cushion or does it go straight off the one ball to the position for the six without a rail contact?

 

[Island Drive]

I think you mean left.

No I didn't....

 

[Bob Jewett]

No I didn't....

I think the vast majority of players who play that cut shot with side spin think that outside english (left) allows them to hit the ball fuller.

 

[bbb]

I think the vast majority of players who play that cut shot with side spin think that outside english (left) allows them to hit the ball fuller.

is that not true?

 

[Island Drive]

Cue ball has two speeds, forward and spinning, if a cut shot is hit with ALLOT of spinning inside at speed it forces the cut.

It's why when you see great players like Filler/Shaw etc get so much cue ball movement on a ball that's nearly straight in, it's because of this collision speed/spinning outcome using inside cueing.

Now if this shot is hit slowly then it doesn't work, but there's a certain spin/swing speed combined that allows this to happen.

Too slow NO, but a hard pop/hit shot where the cue ball only moves a Very short distance, this is what they are doing.

 

[evergruven]

Does the cue ball hit any cushion or does it go straight off the one ball to the position for the six without a rail contact?

it goes off the short rail, then the long, and when I've hit the shot with the right speed, it floats nicely for position on the 6 in the same pocket

I understand there are other ways to make the shot, but I'd really like to understand what's happening when hitting the shot as I originally described

the spin appears to be reversing, but off of two rails, which is difficult for me to picture in my mind

thanks for any help bob, and to all who've replied so far

 

[Island Drive]

is that not true?

Depends on the speed of the cuestick.

To stay on topic/OP.
Your aiming a little more right of the contact point on the obj. ball, BUT the speed of the cue ball when hit hard and harder, squirts whitey to the left towards more & more, towards the contact point, but the speed needed to move your CB the distance you want determines your total/walkup/stance/cueing into the shot at hand.

 

[BC21]

is that not true?

Yes, it's true. When using outside spin (more than gearing english), you can hit the ob a little fuller, or sometimes should hit the ball a little fuller, especially at slower speeds or slow stun shots.

 

[BC21]

it goes off the short rail, then the long, and when I've hit the shot with the right speed, it floats nicely for position on the 6 in the same pocket

I understand there are other ways to make the shot, but I'd really like to understand what's happening when hitting the shot as I originally described

the spin appears to be reversing, but off of two rails, which is difficult for me to picture in my mind

thanks for any help bob, and to all who've replied so far

Sounds like you're using just enough inside to choke/slow the cb when it hits the end rail, then it simply rolls into the side rail and out for the 6.

Playing the shot with just a little inside spin (about half a tip), and about a tip of high on the cb at medium speed, is a more consistent/reliable shot for me. Gets the cb on the wide side of the 6 for a shot in the left corner pocket.

 

[evergruven]

Sounds like you're using just enough inside to choke/slow the cb when it hits the end rail, then it simply rolls into the side rail and out for the 6.

ah thanks, I can kinda picture that..but how/why does the inside spin eventually become outside?

 

[bbb]

ah thanks, I can kinda picture that..but how/why does the inside spin eventually become outside?

Sounds like you're using just enough inside to choke/slow the cb when it hits the end rail, then it simply rolls into the side rail and out for the 6.

Playing the shot with just a little inside spin (about half a tip), and about a tip of high on the cb at medium speed, is a more consistent/reliable shot for me. Gets the cb on the wide side of the 6 for a shot in the left corner pocket.

after the end rail "chokes" the inside spin
the inside spin is gone and the cue ball picks up alittle running english off the side rial would be my answer