ABP and their 15 minutes of fame!!!!!!!!!!!!

[manwon]

This thumbs 4 you :speechless::barf::nono:
Another newbie stirring the pot. Hope you get a welcome ban

Since this is a free forum we have the right to express our opinions. But, I can tell you this, this Newbie crap is nothing but Bull Shit. You have every right not to agree with his opinion but at least give him the respect he is due as forum member.

If one of your Hero's (Pro Players) posted to this forum for the first time would you want some one who did not agree with him being disrespectful, I mean the same term would apply to them.

My comments are from experience I have been like you and dismissed what forum members have to say because of their post count and then I realized how ignorant I was basing some ones intelligence and knowledge upon something like their post count or when they joined the forum.:embarrassed2:

JIMO

 

[manwon]

On the point of seeding, in my opinion no ones deserves it, unless it is an annual major event that advertises that the top three finalists will be seeded if they attend next year. In this case in my opinion they have earned an advantage do their previous performance in the event.

But, to just allow players to be seeded according to their rank in the standings is unfair, I am one that feels that you pay your entry are placed due to a fair draw.

JIMO

 

[sweatinNbettin]

Since this is a free forum we have the right to express our opinions. But, I can tell you this, this Newbie crap is nothing but Bull Shit. You have every right not to agree with his opinion but at least give him the respect he is due as forum member.

If one of your Hero's (Pro Players) posted to this forum for the first time would you want some one who did not agree with him being disrespectful, I mean the same term would apply to them.

My comments are from experience I have been like you and dismissed what forum members have to say because of their post count and then I realized how ignorant I was basing some ones intelligence and knowledge upon something like their post count or when they joined the forum.:embarrassed2:

JIMO

Very well said.
Newbie is a relative term,ask someone whose been doing something for 40 years about somebody thats only been doing it for 10. You will probably hear the phrase newbie.
We were all newbies once but we all have an opinion. We don't have to agree with each other's opinions but respect should be the first key, even if understanding is not.

 

[peteypooldude]

On the point of seeding, in my opinion no ones deserves it, unless it is an annual major event that advertises that the top three finalists will be seeded if they attend next year. In this case in my opinion they have earned an advantage do their previous performance in the event.

But, to just allow players to be seeded according to their rank in the standings is unfair, I am one that feels that you pay your entry are placed due to a fair draw.

JIMO

Maybe that was wrong, I have been wrong before.FWIW That was a bashing thread, I dont care who started it. I stand behind what I said.
Everything he has posted has been negative.If you want to make a big deal out of the term newbie,then so be it. If he wants an apology...sorry I called you a newbie.I am usually the 1st person to hand out rep to a new member. That is a fact
How bout some of the terms used to bash the players. Go patrol there some

 

[barboxplr]

ok if the tourney gets seedings then why go watch the first 2 or 3 rounds because all the pros should cruise right thru the average guy and it would not be entertaining to watch. i love the dcc they redraw every round and everyone cant wait to see who plays who and it has big matches ever round and not just the top players matching up in the end. why should they get to play someone easyer because they are a pro who cares. if i pay my entry fee and i am not a good player then i should have the same advantage or the draw as the next guy because we both paid the same entry fee. why should there pro status make them better than anyone else. if they are a professional then win and if you lose dont blame it because you had to play another top pro. thats why the fans come daily to watch because it is the thrill of seeing top players playing top matches during the entire tournament not just at the end. i would bet if they seed it the entries drop and the attendance will drop during the early rounds also. if the pros want guaranteed money to help if they get beat by another top pro then maybe they should get a sponser to cover there aSS if they lose. sounds to me like they are not very confident in having to play eachother. why should they get special treatment.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

ok if the tourney gets seedings then why go watch the first 2 or 3 rounds because all the pros should cruise right thru the average guy and it would not be entertaining to watch. i love the dcc they redraw every round and everyone cant wait to see who plays who and it has big matches ever round and not just the top players matching up in the end. why should they get to play someone easyer because they are a pro who cares. if i pay my entry fee and i am not a good player then i should have the same advantage or the draw as the next guy because we both paid the same entry fee. why should there pro status make them better than anyone else. if they are a professional then win and if you lose dont blame it because you had to play another top pro. thats why the fans come daily to watch because it is the thrill of seeing top players playing top matches during the entire tournament not just at the end. i would bet if they seed it the entries drop and the attendance will drop during the early rounds also. if the pros want guaranteed money to help if they get beat by another top pro then maybe they should get a sponser to cover there aSS if they lose. sounds to me like they are not very confident in having to play eachother. why should they get special treatment.

You make some very good points. But let me ask you what you think of this idea. Now this is a big "if" but suppose there was a legitimate criteria for ranking players that they all agreed upon, in other words, no back room seeding. What if the the top 32 players were "seeded" by simply spacing them out in the chart, before the draw for the general population (so the worst guy doesn't have to go up against the best guy)? You could still have many potential matches like Mika against Raphael Martinez, Appleton against a guy like Peach, or say Rodney against an up and comer like John Morra. I don't care who he is, no one wants to play Raphael in the first round. In addition, even if the seeded guys do breeze through their first two matches, then they will all be locking horns in the third round, which is still pretty early in the proceedings, before the money.

To the dead money amateurs in the event that really would love to draw into a set with a star, they all have a more fair chance of getting that dream draw. To the serious player (say a mid-level pro or shortstop), it give him a more equal chance as the other players of his speed of advancing far enough to get in the money because the partial seeding has balanced the chart. There are less real strong or real weak parts to the bracket that would give one of these mid-level guys an advantage because of the luck of the draw.

I haven't really decided where I'm at on this issue but I'm throwing stuff out there in this and the other seeding thread for discussion.

I'd like to hear your view.

 

[barboxplr]

ok here is a idea seed the last 8 or 16 winners according to last years winner number 1 seed and so on depending on the brackets like in the ncaa tourney if there is 4 brackets then only the last 4 winners or 8 then hte last 8 winners. if they win they they get a reward that way. but as far as top 32 that is too deep. the dcc has a great tournout from day one till the last day because of the thrill of the draw. everyone wants to be there every day so they dont miss the big match because you have no idea when in the tourney it will happen. i have stayed in my car for 6 nights and drove a hour and half to go home and shower and drive straight back just so i dont miss anything but if they seed it i would probably miss the first round because the good matches will be in the end. if is ia open tourney and anone can play then i feel as if everyone should be treated the same. i the pros wanna be seeded then fine treat it is a pro tourney only and only the PROS can play and they can seed it because it is all about them and what they want. but if it is open to the public anyone should be treated the same. if it is stictly a pro tourney then it would be jam packed with great matches from start to finish then because there is no slacker in the tourney and this is what they want so give it to them.

 

[manwon]

Maybe that was wrong, I have been wrong before.FWIW That was a bashing thread, I dont care who started it. I stand behind what I said.
Everything he has posted has been negative.If you want to make a big deal out of the term newbie,then so be it. If he wants an apology...sorry I called you a newbie.I am usually the 1st person to hand out rep to a new member. That is a fact
How bout some of the terms used to bash the players. Go patrol there some

trust me I am not on patrol, but two wrongs doesn't make anything wright. You are beng as negative by calling new members newbies, all I am saying is if this guy is being negative you do not have to step down to his level with additional insults. Explain the error he made and leave it alone, fact is if he is negative all the time no one will pay any attention to him anyway and he will just go away. Calling names doesn't solve the problem and really serves no purpose at all in the end, most members can identify a fool simple by the content that they type without any help at all.

JIMO

 

[BrokeStroke]

Agree or disagree, the players have a right to organize if they, as a majority, decide that they are getting the shaft. (punny....i know)

I'm not saying Barry does it, but being able to hold money (intentionally) over someones head is not a move that motivates people to want to repeat shooting in an event. An example would be as follows:

I win a pro event. $10,000.
My expenses were $4,500. My normal monthly expenses are $2,500.

After all is said and done, I will make $3,000.

If it takes me 6 months to collect it, what is the point? I would've needed that money to recoup my initial investment in the event, plus I'd have to go home and pay the bills. PLUS I have to pay my entries into other events. Instead, I'm sitting there for 6 months, scraping up money to survive, while waiting on 'guaranteed' money that I haven't seen yet.
I doubt that I would look forward to shooting in that event repeatedly just due to the financial hole it would put me in even after I WON the event.

It is one thing to applaud B.B. for holding this event for so long and making it what it is (aside from payment). It is another thing to sit back and say what idiots the pros are for wanting to be paid in a timely fashion.

Honestly, if the ABP could get themselves together to the point where they can be taken seriously, there would be a bunch of people all for it. They just need to realize that there needs to be a means for a justifiable end.
Similarly, I am in the same boat as these guys in the big picture. I'm a union member (wont say which one though ) and I have taken a lot of criticism over it from people that are anti-union to the core. But at the end of the day, all I'm doing is my job. Trying to put a roof over my head and bread on the table with a little job security and nobody can make me feel guilty about that. So if thats what these guys are doing, how could you be against it?

Just my $0.02

 

[Mickey Qualls]

Speaking for myself, I don't think the 'pros' are "idiots" for wanting to be paid in a timely fashion. It's the way they've gone about it is what's making them look like "idiots".

I think part of the problem is that concessions are made for 'pros', and it only serves to inflate thier egos. I've read a great deal of posts/threads regarding things like moving times of matches to accomodate 'pro' players that "don't want to play early in the morning". Posts pertaining to allowing 'pros' to show up well past the start time of thier match, and have the match progress in spite of the already decided forfeit. Amateurs being told if they don't like the above, then "they don't have to play". Geez, no wonder the pros think they have Barry by the yo-yo's.

Look, if I'm Barry, I understand that everyone wants to have all the money in the bank prior to the event. In an ideal world, great. But I can't do that, and here's why. I rely on gate money, vendor money, etc.
But here's what I'm willing to do. I will escrow $50K a month prior. And I will have the remainder available during the event. If I don't/can't/won't, then the ABP can have the US Open.
As soon as the ABP passed on that, I would have told them to suck rocks.

Hey, I'm all for everyone getting paid at the venue. And in full. But if I know beforehand that there's a chance I won't get paid in full at the conclusion, then I have to factor that into my decision to play or not. And if I start shooting off at the mouth about it, I'll be told not to let the door hit me in the a$$ on the way out.

 

[JAM]

Speaking for myself, I don't think the 'pros' are "idiots" for wanting to be paid in a timely fashion. It's the way they've gone about it is what's making them look like "idiots".

I think part of the problem is that concessions are made for 'pros', and it only serves to inflate thier egos. I've read a great deal of posts/threads regarding things like moving times of matches to accomodate 'pro' players that "don't want to play early in the morning". Posts pertaining to allowing 'pros' to show up well past the start time of thier match, and have the match progress in spite of the already decided forfeit. Amateurs being told if they don't like the above, then "they don't have to play". Geez, no wonder the pros think they have Barry by the yo-yo's.

Look, if I'm Barry, I understand that everyone wants to have all the money in the bank prior to the event. In an ideal world, great. But I can't do that, and here's why. I rely on gate money, vendor money, etc.
But here's what I'm willing to do. I will escrow $50K a month prior. And I will have the remainder available during the event. If I don't/can't/won't, then the ABP can have the US Open.
As soon as the ABP passed on that, I would have told them to suck rocks.

Hey, I'm all for everyone getting paid at the venue. And in full. But if I know beforehand that there's a chance I won't get paid in full at the conclusion, then I have to factor that into my decision to play or not. And if I start shooting off at the mouth about it, I'll be told not to let the door hit me in the a$$ on the way out.

Mickey, it's not all pros that get favoritism and special treatment. Believe you me, it's only a few of them that get it.

One thing I like about Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour is that there is never any favoritism. If Efren Reyes shows up 10 minutes too late after his name is called and the grace period expires, Efren Reyes is forfeited.

I agree with much of what you have written. The entire brouhaha, for lack of a better word, is a difficult nut to crack. Both sides have their worthy points for consideration.

With the sluggish advancement of American pool events in recent times, I have to side with Barry, if I had to pick a side, but I totally understand why the ABP is trying to establish a new payment practice for the Open. Like you said, the way they went about it wasn't well thought out, and it doesn't bode well for those of us on the outside looking in.

 

[Black-Balled]

I will make $3,000.

If it takes me 6 months to collect it, what is the point?

Just my $0.02

That was a waste of 2cents.

Your statement is just assenine. You would't want to win the lottery coz of the taxes either, right?

it takes me 6 months to collect it, what is the point? I would've needed that money to recoup my initial investment in the event, plus I'd have to go home and pay the bills. PLUS I have to pay my entries into other events. Instead, I'm sitting there for 6 months, scraping up money to survive, while waiting on 'guaranteed' money that I haven't seen yet.
I doubt that I would look forward to shooting in that event repeatedly just due to the financial hole it would put me in even after I WON the event.

A players financial situation at home is not the tournament's responsibility.

IMO, Barry needs to make his payment schedule clear, though.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

Mickey, it's not all pros that get favoritism and special treatment. Believe you me, it's only a few of them that get it.

One thing I like about Mike Zuglan's Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour is that there is never any favoritism. If Efren Reyes shows up 10 minutes too late after his name is called and the grace period expires, Efren Reyes is forfeited.

I agree with much of what you have written. The entire brouhaha, for lack of a better word, is a difficult nut to crack. Both sides have their worthy points for consideration.

With the sluggish advancement of American pool events in recent times, I have to side with Barry, if I had to pick a side, but I totally understand why the ABP is trying to establish a new payment practice for the Open. Like you said, the way they went about it wasn't well thought out, and it doesn't bode well for those of us on the outside looking in.

I know that all the 'pros' don't get preferential treatment. It just reads to me that the ones who do (from the threads/posts on AZB) are coincidentally some of the members responsible for the creation of the ABP.

As far as Zuglan's events, that's one of the things everyone else I've spoken to likes about it as well. I wonder what the ABP would try and do to Zuglan if he paid late.........

 

[#Cruncher]

I win a pro event. $10,000.
My expenses were $4,500. My normal monthly expenses are $2,500.

After all is said and done, I will make $3,000.

Thanks for the morning humor. You must be a baller. $4500 expenses for the event?!?!?! How much drugs and how many hookers did you go through, lol? I'll concede 1500 in expenses.

Monthly expenses..wtf does that have to do with a single tournament. Again, if you're gonna be a pro, you better learn to live a little more frugally (there's not that much money to be won).

Lastly, I think more people would agree that in an event that pays 10 g's, that the winner should be paid that day. However, we're talking about an event that pays 40 g's. I think getting paid that kind of money in chunks slightly late is still better than not having the tourney at all.

I understand why the players are doing what they're doing, just don't agree how they are going about it.

 

[inside_english]

Sounds like a few of you got self righteous.
Pool players not god enough for you ,then watch golf.
Sick of this keyboard drama
It is like a bunch of pocketpoints all over again

If you're so sick of it why are you reading and posting in yet another ABP thread?
The title of the thread should have been enough for you to simply ignore it and move on.

At least be honest with yourself. You clicked on this thread because you hoped someone had something new to offer about this situation...then when you saw it was another fan complaining about the situation you decide to criticize them for creating another ABP thread.

And by the way...people should be allowed to create a thread if they want...regardless of how many already exist on the same topic.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the OP does not want his/her message buried 4 or 5 pages deep in an older thread about this?

This is a public and free forum.

People can post as they please...as long as the Admins and Moderators are Ok with it.

If you don't like a thread, don't click on it, and don't read it.

 

[Black-Balled]

Thanks for the morning humor. You must be a baller. $4500 expenses for the event?!?!?! How much drugs and how many hookers did you go through, lol? I'll concede 1500 in expenses....
I understand why the players are doing what they're doing, just don't agree how they are going about it.

I did the week @ just under $1200. No hookers

 

[inside_english]

Since this is a free forum we have the right to express our opinions. But, I can tell you this, this Newbie crap is nothing but Bull Shit. You have every right not to agree with his opinion but at least give him the respect he is due as forum member.

If one of your Hero's (Pro Players) posted to this forum for the first time would you want some one who did not agree with him being disrespectful, I mean the same term would apply to them.

My comments are from experience I have been like you and dismissed what forum members have to say because of their post count and then I realized how ignorant I was basing some ones intelligence and knowledge upon something like their post count or when they joined the forum.:embarrassed2:

JIMO

Tap! Reps! Kudos! Great post!

I too am tired of people being slammed and judged because of their post count.
Just because they haven't posted much does not mean they have not been enjoying the forums for years...not to mention they actually may know a lot about the game and have tons of experience.

Some of us forums members need to get off our high horses and realize that our opinions are just that.

Stop bashing people because you think they are new!

We all were newbies once.

I can't stand self-appointed Forum Police. Get a job!

 

[BigFish]

I personally think the players should be seeded. They have paid their dues and earned it. Any player playing in the US Open ranked in the WPA rankings top 32 should get ranked. And for the women, WPA top 16.

By the way, only 13 players in the ABP are ranked in the WPA top 32 (Archer is ranked 74)

 

[Blackjack]

I did the week @ just under $1200. No hookers

Congratulations!

 

[The Chinchilla]

.... you are nothing more than a guy down the street at the pool hall that can shoot well.

Yeah, just that little thing about being the guy who can shoot well-- which is like the whole point of pool. You're nothing more than the baseball player than can hit 60+ home runs a year, you're just nothing more than that. Ha.