Sounds pretty darn reasonable to me.
Good luck with forming a tour. I have always felt that having a tour is a real possibility when it is formed by the players and not promoters.
ABP may be fixing games and tournaments
- Thread starter dom_poppa
- Start date
Sounds pretty darn reasonable to me.
Good luck with forming a tour. I have always felt that having a tour is a real possibility when it is formed by the players and not promoters.
That is friggin absurd. A better show for our money? We want to watch pro's play what ends up being a exhibition at the end of a major event?
Seriously, use some common sense and think about this Shawn, do you want to watch Federer and Nadal in the finals of a major tournament like the French open after they have decided to chop the winnings and are in effect just screwing around? Do you want to watch Tiger Woods and Phil Mikkelson play those extra holes in a Masters playoff sudden death if they have decided to chop the winnings and are now not playing under the pressure that the money brings?
The trophies in pool are pretty near worthless, if you guys are not playing for the money, the prizes, you are playing for nothing and most of the fans of the sport don't want to watch you screwing around like that.
It is this kind of crap attitude that makes the tournaments less of a draw, it is this kind of crap that makes people tune out of this game, you pool players need to look more long term and realize you are screwing over the fans, the sport, and in the long run yourselves by shitting all over the game by doing crap like this.
You and the rest of the pros really need to get your head into different places on this. Do you know what would happen to Tiger, Federer, or anyone else if they did a saver in their sport? They would get fined, suspended, and very possibly banned for life from that sport. And the reason is that the sport is screwed by these types of actions, the actual purity of the competition is ruined.
You want to be a pro pool player, then play for the money, don't paly stupid chopping games and then try to act like playing an exhibition is somehow good for the game, you are screwing up the sport you are trying to make a living in and the chance of the sport actually gaining popularity.
That is correct. 128 man field you should seed 32 players.
You space them as they should be #1 at the top of the bracket, #2 at the bottom, #3 at the bottom of top bracket,#4 at the top of bottom bracket and so on. If there are any byes, the top ranked players get them.
Know don't have a fit until I can explain ! LOL
Your top players are gona beat almost everybody anyways. So it's better for the ametuers not to have to draw them first round and get some table time in first before they have to play one of them !
LMAO, Are you serious ? You are compareing us to multi-millionaires that don't have to worry about money. you think that the US Open title means nothing to us when we get to the finals ? Well I feel you are just trying to get a reaction out of me so I can say without a doubt I will never respond to another post of yours ever again . I invite anybody who post on here to respond to this guy the way you think he should be treated ! I'm done with him !
Thanks for the reply, I get what you are saying about the byes, but I'm not sure I agree. For the same reason you gave, that is that the top seeds are pretty much going to beat anyone in the first round, then why do they need the byes? I'd rather take my chances cold against you in the second round on the winners side then on the losers side all warmed up from one loss in the first round.
I also understand that it is unique to pro pool that the amateurs can compete with the top professionals for the same fee. You're right, you can't find that in golf. But let's be honest, the amateurs are bringing something of great value to the table for you professionals too. They are providing a good portion of the prize money, and sometimes it just seems that some pros don't appreciate this. I'm sure if pro pool became even a tenth as viable a living as golf or tennis is with sponsors and TV providing the money, without the need for amateurs to fund a big portion of the purse it would be just like tennis and golf, there wouldn't be any spots available for them in your game either.
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I understand what you are saying . Some ametuers have a tough time playing cold and nervous and others are excited to play us first . I feel neither is wrong . depends on the player I guess !Thanks for the reply, I get what you are saying about the byes, but I'm not sure I agree. For the same reason you gave, that is that the top seeds are pretty much going to be anyone in the first round, then why do they need the byes? I'd rather take my chances cold against you in the second round on the winners side then all warmed up from one loss on the losers side.
I also understand that it is unique to pro pool that the amateurs can compete with the top professionals for the same fee. You're right, you can't find that in golf. But let's be honest, the amateurs are bringing something of great value to the table for you professionals too. They are providing a good portion of the prize money, and sometimes it just seems that some pros don't appreciate this. I'm sure if pro pool became even a tenth as viable a living as golf or tennis is with sponsors and TV providing the money, without the need for amateurs to fund a big portion of the purse it would be just like tennis and golf, there wouldn't be any spots available for them in your game either.
So, who do you like in the Open this year?
:angel2:BTW, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I find this whole seeding debate pretty interesting.
So, who do you like in the Open this year?
BTW, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I find this whole seeding debate pretty interesting.
I hate to say it but Earl
Goodnight all !!!!!
Nite. Sure hope everything gets sorted out.
It must really pain you to say that, so I know that Earl must be playing pretty well lately. Looks like I know who to place a small wager on this year.
(J/K Shawn) BTW, I don't like seeding. You guys are good enough to beat me every time...so why should I be guaranteed to face a Putnam, Archer, etc. in the first round every time, instead of Joe Schmoe, who I actually have a chance against?
I've won and lost many tournaments based on whether or not I got a favorable draw. It's part of pool, and I don't think that should change, regardless of how good you are, or how many racks you can run.
Also, if I beat two Joe Schmoes before I have to play a Putnam, my confidence might be high enough to believe that I actually have a chance against you...
The anti-seeding argument is seemingly intended to insure that the top players never have to deal with each other until the later stages of the tourney...thus virtually guaranteeing them a cash spot. Pool doesn't come with guarantees, nor should it, imo.
Btw, Shawn, it's great to see you get involved in the forum and interact with the people that can't wait for your next Accu-Stat match to come out.
I've watched you play a lot of pool; I've even learned some things from you, and you are definitely appreciated.
I've watched you play a lot of pool; I've even learned some things from you, and you are definitely appreciated.
I want to see top players beat top players,put the 32 in the same bracket
and let them eat each other.if you want to be seeded so you can coral the money from the other 96 players you should pay double the entry.why should a top player get an auto buy and pay the same entry as a short stop.
bill
It must really pain you to say that, so I know that Earl must be playing pretty well lately. Looks like I know who to place a small wager on this year.
BTW, I don't like seeding. You guys are good enough to beat me every time...so why should I be guaranteed to face a Putnam, Archer, etc. in the first round every time, instead of Joe Schmoe, who I actually have a chance against?
I've won and lost many tournaments based on whether or not I got a favorable draw. It's part of pool, and I don't think that should change, regardless of how good you are, or how many racks you can run.
Also, if I beat two Joe Schmoes before I have to play a Putnam, my confidence might be high enough to believe that I actually have a chance against you...
The anti-seeding argument is seemingly intended to insure that the top players never have to deal with each other until the later stages of the tourney...thus virtually guaranteeing them a cash spot. Pool doesn't come with guarantees, nor should it, imo.
Troop, thanks for your thoughts on this. And I do get what you're saying about a good draw in the chart making a difference but to me a good draw isn't just about the first round match but also about the other draws around /near yours. So do the odds for you change that much if the top 32 guys are seeded in the first round? Admittedly in a blind raw a few of them would draw each other but I don't think you are "guaranteed" to draw one of the seeds in the first round. They still are only 25% of the field taking one of every four spots so you have a only a 1 in 3 chance (33%) of drawing one of them. Sorry if I'm wrong about the odds, it's late and and no one told me there was going to be math tonight. :embarrassed2:
I keep thinking about the possibility that with some seeding balancing out the chart it makes it a little more equitable for us amateurs from this perspective: Say you and I are the same speed and neither one of us expects to win the tournament no matter how good a draw we get. With a blind draw I might get lucky, draw into a real weak portion of the chart, draw 3 APA 2's in a row and probably go way farther than you who drew into a real tough part of the bracket. I'm not sure that's equitable, leaving our respective chances determined by a lucky draw. With a more balanced chart, doesn't it maybe give us lesser players of equal speed more of a level playing field to advance in the tournament? I'm thinking more from the standpoint that I'm competing with you to make the top 48-64 say. I'm not really competing with the world champions for first place.
What do you think? I probably wrote a more succinct and pointed post about this a couple of pages ago. Sorry if I'm not being clear. I've been hearing goods points on both sides of this issue but now my head hurts from thinking about it. Maybe it's time to hit the rack.
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dom_poppa
Banned
Again, another way to deflect. Who answers in "LMAO".
Let's just face it, there is no money in pool to say you are a "pro" or making a living off of it. More like you don't want to work like us shortstops or amateurs, so you declare yourself a pro.
Like you said, you are not a millionaire or have any athletic talent...you can draw the rock like any of us can but you guys sit here thinking you guys are god's gift to this world.
I will say it again, I can find anyone in my local pool room who can do the same things as you, but they have jobs. You can boycott the Open but I am sure these people in my pool room would love to be the next US Open Champion.
And thats the issue with having open entry events. Unless and until there is some means for drawing a line between professional and amateur that is concrete I think seeding will be a tough sell. Too many events need that "dead money".
If a tour of strictly pro events existed with qualifiers, a detailed procedure for acquiring points and status existed then seeding makes all the sense in the world. Unfortunately in this country that doesn't exist yet.
dom_poppa
Banned
bingo.
Imagine the top players seeing one another in the late round and from the same organization.
They can just play it out but end up chopping up all the money prize.
They are in the same organization, therefore, robbing the common or local playeres of their money.
This is exactly what goes on in my local tournaments. The heavyweights don't like giving weight because a shorstop can slop in a few 9's and win the match. They also don't like open tournaments because there are not enough participants to join, therefore making the prize a lot less.
So, this is where the ABP comes into play in this scenario....I start an organization and we seed all my pool buddies, so we will meet each other later in the tournament and it allows lesser players to join. This guarantees money for any of us and lets the lesser players still join the tournament so the prize is higher than if they didn't show up.
What it comes down to is....the elite players are trying get seeded higher so they play lesser players and still have the chance to rob the prizes.
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Hmmmm
Really ?? Would they like to come to DCC next year and play these pro's in the nightly cash games? Straight up of course because they can do the same things as the pro's? WOW. Talk about lame response. Please tell me who "they" are so I can get my cash down on Putnam, Archer, Earl, Efren, Parica, etc.etc. etc.
Please rob me..... I'm dying to go off like a rocket. I will bring large bills, since they are only burning a hole in my pocket. It is my gift to you. I'm on the GAL !!
Really ?? Would they like to come to DCC next year and play these pro's in the nightly cash games? Straight up of course because they can do the same things as the pro's? WOW. Talk about lame response. Please tell me who "they" are so I can get my cash down on Putnam, Archer, Earl, Efren, Parica, etc.etc. etc.
Please rob me..... I'm dying to go off like a rocket. I will bring large bills, since they are only burning a hole in my pocket. It is my gift to you. I'm on the GAL !!
Ok, I'm gonna try and answer this one as objectively as posible. First of all any player in the world can become a member of the ABP. We welcome any skill level to be part of our organization. That said, If 4 players are in the final 4 spots. They are guaranteed 1st thru 4th prize money, right ? What they decide to do with THEIR prize money is their own buisiness and nobody elses. It does not mean that they are gonna play any less hard for the title and trophy than the next player ! I don't know a single Pro that would accept 2nd place in a Pro Event just because he was making the same amount of money as the Winner ! Everybody hates 2nd place ! Don't forget that the winner has to pay taxes on that 1st place prize money so technicly he is making way less than 2nd,3rd, and 4th ! Right ? LOL ! If you disagree than please let me know. I will give it another try.