ABP or Barry Behrman Escrow account

Carolina Blue...If you're talking tournament play or gambling, you're correct. That said, there are a few of us who make a great living playing pool...we are called ENTERTAINERS! People have always been willing to pay to be entertained, and I don't see that ever changing.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Carolina Blue said:
It has not been possible to earn a decent living in the last fifty years playing pool. It is unreasonable to believe that will change anytime soon in this country.
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Scott Lee said:
JAM...How about this for a compromise? Barry could make the entry $500, if paid by a certain date (perhaps 60 days ahead of the tournament), and $1000 if you miss paying up front. That's enough of a difference that it would force the players to pay upfront...or don't play. Just a thought...:grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I realize the 256-player field fills up, which is good for pool, but there are some players who have elected not to go to the week-long U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship due to finances and/or other obligations. For some, taking off work this long is not feasible, and for others, they must make a decision whether they want to attend the week-long U.S. Open, the week-long Derby City Classic, or another week-long event. If you have a job -- and believe it or not, some pool players do -- they cannot attend all of these week-long tournaments.

I think the $1,000 entry fee for late payment would be a major deterrent. Barry does offer a $400 entry fee if players pay early, but it's hard for some players to spend $400 that far ahead of time.

Personally, I say reduce the player field to 128, keep the added monies the same, and maybe it will be an incentive for players to pay ahead of time.

I also think it's time to get rid of that free entry fees to the champion title holders. Half of them don't come anyway. We now have the lady pros attending the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. I think minimizing the field, eliminating freebies, and having a waiting list might do this tournament wonders. With a 128-player field, the payouts would be much larger with the same added monies. ;)
 
Carolina Blue said:
Yes, I am telling you they should go get a job. Irving Crane had a job, Mosconi had a job, Greenleaf had a job, Caras had a job, Hopkins has a job, Mizerak had a job, and on and on. All the ones who did not die broke had a job. Pool is not a profession, it is an avocation. It is not something you do to earn a living. And wishing and hoping won't make it so. Do the math. The numbers just are not there. And players need to be able to realize that and go get a job.
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I have read that Irving Cranes father gave him a car dealership, not sure that constitutes a job . I have no idea what his daily responsibilities were. Greenleaf traveled around giving exhibitions with his wife, I know Mizerak was a schoolteacher but I don't know if he was teaching when he was at his best.
Mosconi gave exhibitions, I have never heard of him doing anything else but play pool.
Can you give me your source of information please?
I have heard a lot of people call themselves working players but I don't really consider someone a working player unless they put in 40 hours or more a week at something besides giving exhibitions, lessons or owning a poolroom.
I understand, it is work, but they are also never out of the environment.
 
Crane did not own the dealership, he worked there and sold Caddys. Well-known fact. Mizerak worked his butt off importing cues and accessories sold through K-Mart and Wal-Mart. Mosconi worked for Brunswick, touring the country opening pool rooms, giving shows and calling on Brunswick dealers. Mizerak also worked many years for Miller Lite, going around doing the Showing Off shot. Greenleaf turned his skills into a vaudeville act along with his wife. Caras was a butcher.

Just add up the prize monies available for the tournaments here in the US and then divide by the number of players trying to earn a living there. The monies don't work. So the players need to stop depending on a source of income that is fickle and insufficient.
 
JAM said:
... With a 128-player field, the payouts would be much larger with the same added monies. ;)
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Jen, the math doesn't seem to support your statement. With a 256-player field, that second group of 128 players contributes between $51,200 ($400 x 128) and $64,000 ($500 x 128) to the prize fund, and they receive zero in prizes.

With a field of 128, Barry would probably pay 32 or 48 places instead of the 96 places with a field of 256. Last year, the 49th through 96th places received a total of $28,000 in prize money and the 33rd through 96th places received a total of $44,000 in prize money. So, either way, more would be lost to the prize fund by not getting the entry fees from the extra 128 players than would be gained by not paying prizes to 33-96 or 49-96. So it would be a net loss in prize money for the top 32 or 48.

Edit: However, with 128 instead of 256, the tournament could be shortened. That would save money for a lot of people in rooms, food, etc.
 
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AtLarge said:
Jen, the math doesn't seem to support your statement. With a 256-player field, that second group of 128 players contributes between $51,200 ($400 x 128) and $64,000 ($500 x 128) to the prize fund, and they receive zero in prizes.

With a field of 128, Barry would probably pay 32 or 48 places instead of the 96 places with a field of 256. Last year, the 49th through 96th places received a total of $28,000 in prize money and the 33rd through 96th places received a total of $44,000 in prize money. So, either way, more would be lost to the prize fund by not getting the entry fees from the extra 128 players than would be gained by not paying prizes to 33-96 or 49-96. So it would be a net loss in prize money for the top 32 or 48.

Edit: However, with 128 instead of 256, the tournament could be shortened. That would save money for a lot of people in rooms, food, etc.
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If you pay out less places and more on top, it would be a higher payday for those who fare well in the tournament. What you may not realize is that there are a couple dozen who don't pay the entry fee, as it's given to them for free by Barry each year.

The week-long event can be a deterrent mainly because of expenses, and some well-known players, to include ex-Open champs, have not been able to afford going to the U.S. Open, even with their entry fees paid by Barry. It's just too expensive.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Open and want it to flourish. In fact, it may be my favorite tournament, though when I get to Turning Stone or Derby City Classic or SBE, I love all of them.

There is something very special, though, about Virginia, that ocean breeze blowing through my hair, hanging outside with other pool peeps between matches, sweating the thrill of the almighty win, and dressing up each day to see what lies ahead. Virginia people are genuinely nice. I love Virginia.
 
JAM said:
If you pay out less places and more on top, it would be a higher payday for those who fare well in the tournament. What you may not realize is that there are a couple dozen who don't pay the entry fee, as it's given to them for free by Barry each year. ...
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I guess my post wasn't clear enough, Jen. With 128 players, there would be less prize money to distribute among, say, the top 32. In 2010, the prize fund was $180,000, of which, let's estimate, $57,600 (using $450 per person, on average) came from the entry fees (regardless of who paid them) of those who finished 129-256.

So without the entry fees of the bottom half of the field, and assuming the same amount of added money from Barry, the prize fund would be $122,400 instead of $180,000. Last year, Barry paid a total of $136,000 to the top 32 places. Without the bottom 128, he would not have that much prize money in total. And he likes to pay deep, so he might want to pay 48 places instead of 32. That would further reduce the money available to the top 32.

Sure, he could tilt the pay scale to pay more to the top and less to the lower positions, but the payout would be smaller in aggregate.

However, as I acknowledged before, a lot of expenses could be saved by the players and fans if the tournament were shortened by a couple of days by having a field of 128 instead of 256. In aggregate, that might more than offset the smaller prize fund.
 
I have heard from a smart guy (millionaire) that Barry pays no rental for Conv Center. There may be a subsidy and the CC takes the food money profits which i wouldnt think substantial at all. My buddy usually has good info but i have a very hard time believing that.
 
Carolina Blue said:
Yes, I am telling you they should go get a job. Irving Crane had a job, Mosconi had a job, Greenleaf had a job, Caras had a job, Hopkins has a job, Mizerak had a job, and on and on. All the ones who did not die broke had a job. Pool is not a profession, it is an avocation. It is not something you do to earn a living. And wishing and hoping won't make it so. Do the math. The numbers just are not there. And players need to be able to realize that and go get a job.
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Others have responded already but I can't resist. Crane worked for the family auto dealership - being family, they supported his taking off for tournaments, sometimes very long tournaments.

Mosconi, Greenleaf and Caras never had a job that didn't involve pool. Of these, probably only Mosconi made a good consistent living, but he was Mosconi. And he was on the road most of the time to do it.

The Miz was a schoolteacher until he did the Miller Lite commercial - from then on it was pool-related. Don't know about Hopkins but I suspect it was always pool-related too.

There aren't many straight jobs that will allow a player to take off for frequent tournaments.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I keep reading posts where Barry should get a loan.
Put Q Billiards up as chattel against the loan. Yeah right.
If its so easy and risk free, then you do it and lend Barry the money, OK.

Other than 2 jobs at a hospital, I own a taxi plate in which I lease out.
The net value of the plate in my city is 250K. Plates in NY are worth 6 times that amount. The lease I receive for the plate each month is, and will continue to be a much needed part of my livelihood now and for the rest of my life. If anyone would think that I might put that at risk for anyone else but myself is as crazy as people that think Barry should risk his absolute livelihood to put on a tournament
and or, to satisfy the wants of the ABP.

Does JA not own a pool hall? I doubt he would be willing to risk that for anything.
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Couple of thoughts # 1 I am not running the tournament #2 I wasn't gauaranteeing that all the players would get paid as Barry has as soon as all the money came in a week to 6 weeks after the tournament barry's runout radio interview assurred the money would be there, it appears if Barry is correct there is no risk so borrow the moneyby his own word on the interview he guarantees it will be there , then there is no risk # 4 Johnny isn't promoting and running the tournament why should he or other players post the funds ??? # 5 The last time i checked Tiger Woods Jim Furyk and others dont borrow the money to pay the tournament winners
 
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