ABP vs. Barry -- A Proposal

[JoeyA]

Sorry but I disagree with this statement. The mediator would only need to understand the gravity of the issues. A mediator is often a lawyer but trained to not polarize the two parties on the issues. We use them in real estate disputes and are far far cheaper than attorneys who polarize both parties take a stand and fight for a position while running up billable hours.

While I understand your point, I think that attorneys may want to have all of the information provided to them on a silver platter. And I have to imagine that the attorney you use require payment for their services????


There aren't very many attorneys willing to give up their time to mediate problems like this, "pro bono". I know one pool playing attorney who might be willing to help but I wouldn't volunteer his name without speaking to him privately. Also, I wouldn't contact him unless the TWO parties asked me to contact him.

Personally, I think the mediator would need to know a lot about the business of pool in order to mediate well, but that's just me. Pool is such an odd business, most attorneys don't even understand the game let alone the business of promoting pool or playing pool for a living.

Attorneys are great for mediation, but this one had better understand the ins and outs of pool and be FREE.

 

[JAM]

While I understand your point, I think that attorneys may want to have all of the information provided to them on a silver platter. And I have to imagine that the attorney you use require payment for their services????


There aren't very many attorneys willing to give up their time to mediate problems like this, "pro bono". I know one pool playing attorney who might be willing to help but I wouldn't volunteer his name without speaking to him privately. Also, I wouldn't contact him unless the TWO parties asked me to contact him.

Personally, I think the mediator would need to know a lot about the business of pool in order to mediate well, but that's just me. Pool is such an odd business, most attorneys don't even understand the game let alone the business of promoting pool or playing pool for a living.

Attorneys are great for mediation, but this one had better understand the ins and outs of pool and be FREE.

The attorney you are thinking about would be perfect, as he understands pool culture, but unless both sides are willing to have a neutral party help, it won't matter.

That said, my father was a lawyer, and I work with lawyers quite often in my line of work. Trust me when I say leave the lawyers out of this.

 

[Black-Balled]

I see nobody discussing precedent: what is Barry setting himself up for by allowing a group of what, 40 to dictat the terms of his event?

Barry will not be baring his belly. He has stated how he will change his event, based on the ABP's demand. I doubt we will see further offers of substance from him. Both because he has already shown flexibility and because he cannot afford to be taken hostage.

 

[KRJ]

hmmm

Trust me when I say leave the lawyers out of this.

Jam, I think I love you !!!

 

[Georgia Boy]

The attorney you are thinking about would be perfect, as he understands pool culture, but unless both sides are willing to have a neutral party help, it won't matter.

That said, my father was a lawyer, and I work with lawyers quite often in my line of work. Trust me when I say leave the lawyers out of this.

Jam
I would agree completely with your last sentence. Lawyers by their very nature may overcomplicate matters here and it's not that complicated a situation.

If the party's here stood back and analysed the situation rationally and left their emotions at the door on the way in, I don't think they are far from a compromise being reached. The problem appears to be getting them together, checking their ego's at the door and actually talking rationally. A single person, not necessarily a trained mediator, but someone with down to earth good old common sense is all thats required. They would just need to find the common ground, bring the party's towards that goal, seek compromise and ensure everyone got a fair turn to speak their mind.

 

[iba7467]

This is getting ridiculous - arbitration, tribunals, It is really simple.

You walk into a restaurant and you are given a menu.
It shows only chicken dishes but you fancy a steak.
Do you call the owner and tell him then insist that he changes his menu to accommodate you. He tells you that he (and most of his customers) like it the way it is.

You tell your friends and they say that you should get someone who likes chicken and steak to intervene and arbitrate whether the restaurant should offer this choice.

Your friends then decide to boycott the restaurant because they cannot get steak.

The analogy is there. Barry has proffered his menu and the players can select from it or decline.

The restaurant owner is the one who knows what business he wants to be in. It is not some intervening third party to make that judgement.

I don't think this analogy really fits. I see this situation as closer to the following analogy.


You and 200 of your competitors sell steak. You and your competitors each believe they sell the best steak and are willing to send the restaurant $1,000 worth of steak for a competition. If your steak is selected as the best you are to be paid $20,000 and hold the honor of being the Open Champion of Steaks.

Now the restaurant cooks your steaks and sells them to its patrons including merchandising rights and reality tv program revenues. It is select that your steaks are the best. You have won. Now the restaurant pays the runners up enough to cover their costs, but you are waiting for your $20,000.

This comp

 

[pro9dg]

I don't think this analogy really fits. I see this situation as closer to the following analogy.


You and 200 of your competitors sell steak. You and your competitors each believe they sell the best steak and are willing to send the restaurant $1,000 worth of steak for a competition. If your steak is selected as the best you are to be paid $20,000 and hold the honor of being the Open Champion of Steaks.

Now the restaurant cooks your steaks and sells them to its patrons including merchandising rights and reality tv program revenues. It is select that your steaks are the best. You have won. Now the restaurant pays the runners up enough to cover their costs, but you are waiting for your $20,000.

This comp

Fran Crimi said the same thing better in post 14

 

[stuckart]

I don't think this analogy really fits. I see this situation as closer to the following analogy.

You and 200 of your competitors sell steak. You and your competitors each believe they sell the best steak and are willing to send the restaurant $1,000 worth of steak for a competition. If your steak is selected as the best you are to be paid $20,000 and hold the honor of being the Open Champion of Steaks.

Now the restaurant cooks your steaks and sells them to its patrons including merchandising rights and reality tv program revenues. It is select that your steaks are the best. You have won. Now the restaurant pays the runners up enough to cover their costs, but you are waiting for your $20,000.

This comp

I see it even a little different:

You and 200 of your friends are invited to a fancy $500/plate dinner in a different part of the country. You all pay a month ahead of time, arrange flights/cars/trains/hotels/vacations/etc and pay up front with the promise of eating the best steak in the world.

When you arrive you see other people that are paying money to watch you eat. Everyone gets an appetizer and people slowly get eliminated in the eating competition and go home hungry. The remaining competitors move on to the dinner salad portion and even more are eliminated, but with a little taste in their belly. The top 1/4 of the field get served a Baked Potato and even more get eliminated. The top 16 get some vegetables to consume. Some more eliminations and they are sent home with a dessert doggy bag. We are down to the final few persons, now all really hungry and eager for the Steak they've been promised. And then the Restaurant Closes and people are sent on their ways.

In a month's time each of the top guys are mailed a 1 ounce cut of a Steak they were promised. And each month they get a little bit more in the mail. All the competitors are left with a bitter taste in their mouth and all agree that getting fed a tiny piece every month is nowhere near the same promise they were offered and paid good money for.

 

[JAM]

Well, said another way...

 

[Mr. Bond]

...and some people wonder why pool doesnt have an authoritative body like unto the NFL or PGA...

it's embarrassing.

 

[pro9dg]

I see it even a little different:

You and 200 of your friends are invited to a fancy $500/plate dinner in a different part of the country. You all pay a month ahead of time, arrange flights/cars/trains/hotels/vacations/etc and pay up front with the promise of eating the best steak in the world.

When you arrive you see other people that are paying money to watch you eat. Everyone gets an appetizer and people slowly get eliminated in the eating competition and go home hungry. The remaining competitors move on to the dinner salad portion and even more are eliminated, but with a little taste in their belly. The top 1/4 of the field get served a Baked Potato and even more get eliminated. The top 16 get some vegetables to consume. Some more eliminations and they are sent home with a dessert doggy bag. We are down to the final few persons, now all really hungry and eager for the Steak they've been promised. And then the Restaurant Closes and people are sent on their ways.

In a month's time each of the top guys are mailed a 1 ounce cut of a Steak they were promised. And each month they get a little bit more in the mail. All the competitors are left with a bitter taste in their mouth and all agree that getting fed a tiny piece every month is nowhere near the same promise they were offered and paid good money for.

Holy Cow! I wish I hadn't started down this gourmet path. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid

 

[Scott Lee]

Black-Balled...Tap, tap, tap! Cooler heads will eventually prevail.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

1. The Show must go on...and it will.

B. The ABP is a small minority of the likely participant pool. Not only does it not speak for the majority of participants, it has no real power over its own members to encourage (read: direct) any future action by them.

First off: Barry is not going to truly open his books and that would prevent any true assessment of the financial reality of his situation.

We all love pool, especially the most prestigious event we have, domestically.
Sadly, our discussions are largely irrelevant to the matter and its resolution.

I'd like to begin with a statement acknowledging that I do sound like a naysayer, but I believe the issues that have caused the ABP's boycott are not going to be resolved with any large-scale success in the short-term future, and certainly not by attempting to strong-arm a single Promoter.

The Players need to have a real organization that represents their interests is a realistic manner. They need to realize that there will be a long growth period that won't provide short -term perfection.

The Promoters need to realize a realistic money schedule, not one that depends on last minute influx of cash to meet payouts advertised.

 

[Scott Lee]

Doug...Once again...tap, tap, tap!...and that is some funny stuff you wrote. Naturally, every bit of it is true! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

This is getting ridiculous - arbitration, tribunals, It is really simple.

You walk into a restaurant and you are given a menu.
It shows only chicken dishes but you fancy a steak.
Do you call the owner and tell him then insist that he changes his menu to accommodate you. He tells you that he (and most of his customers) like it the way it is.

You tell your friends and they say that you should get someone who likes chicken and steak to intervene and arbitrate whether the restaurant should offer this choice.

Your friends then decide to boycott the restaurant because they cannot get steak.

The analogy is there. Barry has proffered his menu and the players can select from it or decline.

The restaurant owner is the one who knows what business he wants to be in. It is not some intervening third party to make that judgement.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...Know what the difference is between a lawyer and a prostitute?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...the prostitute won't screw you after you're dead! LOL

Just a meager attempt at levity, to lighten up a morbid situation! Once again, no offense to my attorney friends and clients (I'm sure they've heard these old jokes anyway)! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The attorney you are thinking about would be perfect, as he understands pool culture, but unless both sides are willing to have a neutral party help, it won't matter.

That said, my father was a lawyer, and I work with lawyers quite often in my line of work. Trust me when I say leave the lawyers out of this.

 

[KRJ]

hmmm

JAM...Know what the difference is between a lawyer and a prostitute?

.
.
.
...the prostitute won't screw you after you're dead! LOL
:grin:


I always thought the hooker at least kisses you before she screws you...

 

[JAM]

JAM...Know what the difference is between a lawyer and a prostitute?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...the prostitute won't screw you after you're dead! LOL

Just a meager attempt at levity, to lighten up a morbid situation! Once again, no offense to my attorney friends and clients (I'm sure they've heard these old jokes anyway)! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I've shared this before, but it's my all-time favorite. Here's an old lawyer fight ---> Texas :grin:

 

[pro9dg]

Couldn't resist this one
Millionaire has three sons 21, 18 and 10 and they all have the same birthday.
So he says to the 21 year old what would you like for your birthday - I would like six cases of JD. So he called Lynchburg and they delivered the mystical spirit.

To the 18 year old - what would you like. A motorcycle please Dad. So next day a HD arrives.

To the 10 year old - what do you want son?

I would like a cowboy outfit Dad

So Dad bought him the ABP


[I do support the idea of a player organisation but the ABP do not fit the bill - many of the players cited as members are relying on BLIND FAITH and the cliff edge is near]

 

[Georgia Boy]

OK as it appears to be that time of day I will give you a quote from one of my personal heroes, Sir Winston Churchill and a Lawyer Joke:

Winston said: " Lawyers occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened"

Q: What's the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a lawyer on a motorcycle?
A: The vacuum cleaner has the dirt bag on the inside.

 

[Black-Balled]

OK as it appears to be that time of day I will give you a quote from one of my personal heroes, Sir Winston Churchill and a Lawyer Joke:

Winston said: " Lawyers occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened"

Q: What's the difference between a vacuum cleaner and a lawyer on a motorcycle?
A: The vacuum cleaner has the dirt bag on the inside.

As one who depends quite a bit on lawyers...HAHAHAHA for #1. Meh for #2.

 

[thenuke]

Recalling History - My 2 cents worth.

I feel for both the players and Barry. Enough can't be said for promoters like Barry Berhman and a few other people who put on great tourneys. I also understand the players views of wanting their prize money when the events end. I would be very happy to get my $40K three months late, or the balance.

But, I feel the players are slaying the golden goose and are going to extremely hurt this event, one of the best and longest running tournaments in history, if they boycott it. I imagine it has already affected this years gate.

For those of us old enough to remember, players have hurt theirselves in the past. Richie Florenece headed a group of players back in the 70's that demanded the Sands Casino to double the added monies from 25K to 50K. so you know what happened, no more Sands tourneys, which were held twice a year.

For U.S. pool's sake and our players, and not to mention the fans, I hope the players all attend this tournament.

THANK YOU BARRY for all you have done for pool the past 40 years.