ABR Special Report - French Press Conference

iusedtoberich said:
After listening to the interview, I think the contract was very fair. It just did not explicitly state that French was paying 100% of Dennis' traveling expenses, food, hotel, table time, pocket money, etc. If that was written on the contract, the contract would be very fair for a top 10 world level player. For anyone under a top 10 world level player, I think that same contract should state 65% goes to the backer, instead of 50%.

Why that was not written, is strange to me. But if it was done that way in their actual transactions, then it was a fair contract imo.
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Contract; fair; did not state...What?

How can a contract that does not state how each party will act be considered fair?

One party woul be obligated to provide something, the other obligated to provide nothing.
 
jay helfert said:
If you are implying that I knew about any of this stuff ahead of time you're dead wrong! I was gambling just like you! I felt that Dennis matched up good against Ko and it would be an important test for him leading up to the Shane match. I had spoken with Dennis on the phone and he seemed to be in a good place in his arrangement with French. I also felt that the long travel to New York might work against Ko. These are the yardsticks I used to evaluate the match, nothing else.
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Well, yeah. I thought that since you were friends with Dennis, you would have know these things immediately after Dennis knew them. If you didn't, then we were both gambling on a "bad" match that wasn't really legitimate. Dennis says that he played hard, and I don't doubt that, but to me it's the Ko side that could have been influenced the most.
 
On another subject, I only read that "contract" a few days ago and it was the most one sided agreement I've ever seen. There is absolutely NOTHING guaranteed to Dennis in any way, shape or form. Please tell me where it obligates French in any way. That is just a conversation that he would have us believe now.

I will speak to Dennis at length later and get to the bottom of this ugly episode. I want to know for my own edification. It is entirely possible that French was trying to get over on Dennis and Dennis outsmarted him. You become fair game when you try to screw someone. What I do know at this point in time is that Dennis and French were having heated discussions following the Ko match and prior to DCC. There was some serious disagreement between them as to what was fair and equitable.

One last comment. I learned long ago that a contract is only as good as the people who sign it. If one party has bad intentions then it doesn't matter what the contract says. They will try to screw you anyway. I've been cheated more than once by someone that I had an "ironclad" contract with. I had to go to court to recoup my money and that can get expensive quick. One time I won and saved myself between 16K and 64K. That one cost me 6,000 to contest. The second time the cost of legal fees got to high and I went upside down for over eighteen thou.

I can only be as honest as I can in all my dealings. I can't control the other guy.

As a last footnote to history, I have put 6K of my own money into the Bigfoot tourney for the last four years. I also pay my own expenses to get to DCC, except for the room which is provided for me. Additionally I organize the entire event from start to finish. For this I get little in the way of thanks or acknowledgement from any of the players. In fact for the most part all I hear are complaints about the rules, the format, the equipment or something else they don't like.

I'm just about ready to call this all quits. I'm not so rich I can just throw money down the drain indefinitely. I do it because I care about the sport and like to showcase the best talent in the game and I'm able to do it. When the time comes that the negatives outweigh the positives then it's time to hang it up. Maybe I'll do more for myself and use that money for poker tournaments instead.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Well, yeah. I thought that since you were friends with Dennis, you would have know these things immediately after Dennis knew them. If you didn't, then we were both gambling on a "bad" match that wasn't really legitimate. Dennis says that he played hard, and I don't doubt that, but to me it's the Ko side that could have been influenced the most.
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Say what you want about the so called "bad" match. IMO they were both trying to win and that's the bottom line. I'm 100% sure there was no "fix" or anything else going on. True, the money got funny afterward, but that was after the fact.
 
jay helfert said:
Say what you want about the so called "bad" match. IMO they were both trying to win and that's the bottom line. I'm 100% sure there was no "fix" or anything else going on. True, the money got funny afterward, but that was after the fact.
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Just after the match it was disclosed that French signed Ko and was discussing it DURING THE MATCH. That was a huge red flag. Now we learned that French never actually backed this match, which at least now seems to lessen the significance of the signing of Ko.

Just remember when you talk to Dennis, that one of the key points that Dennis admitted to in his interview. Dennis thinks it's fine to not disclose the amount in the middle, as long as he "plays hard" and he gets his cut. He said as much for the 100k match with Shane too. French made it clear that he is totally against deceiving the public about the amount being played for. That right there highlights the difference in mentality between Dennis and French.

French says that he told Dennis to refund the stream from Steinway, but Dennis wouldn't do it.
 
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Get_A_Grip said:
Just after the match it was disclosed that French signed Ko and was discussing it DURING THE MATCH. That was a huge red flag. Now we learned that French never actually backed this match, which at least now seems to lessen the significance of the signing of Ko.

Just remember when you talk to Dennis, that one of the key points that Dennis admitted to in his interview. Dennis thinks it's fine to not disclose the amount in the middle, as long as he "plays hard" and he gets his cut. He said as much for the 100k match with Shane too. French made it clear that he is totally against deceiving the public about the amount being played for. That right there highlights the difference in mentality between Dennis and French.
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Really, I believe it was French that was relentlessly hyping the big 100K match between Dennis and Shane. So who, other than him, was "deceiving the public" here? Hyping a match has never been Dennis' thing. He just wants to play hard and win.
 
jay helfert said:
Really, I believe it was French that was relentlessly hyping the big 100K match between Dennis and Shane. Hyping a match has never been Dennis' thing. He just wants to play hard and win.
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Right. And the key here is to ask Dennis if he originally agreed to put up half of the 50k for the match to happen. The key to the match falling apart appears to be the Dennis wouldn't risk even 10k of his own money (since French eventually agreed to give Dennis 15k). He wanted a totally free ride, so the match couldn't happen.

EDIT: We don't know this, but it appeared that maybe if Dennis would have given the agreed upon 50% of his DCC winnings to French, that maybe French would have covered the full 50k for the Shane match. This is speculation, as I don't believe that French covered this specifically.
 
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ABR said:
Will - Thank You.
And as much as I would love to bask in your kind words, I must insist that it is not with pleasure that we share these things, but our desire to document and share the illustrious and sometimes devious nature of this thing we call pool.

The recognition that we desire is only that of the observer, the entertainer, and the teller of the tale.

Let the humans be human.
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I too wanted to thank Mark and ABR. I think he did a very professional job conducting the interview. He obviously has some reporting skills.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Right. And the key here is to ask Dennis if he originally agreed to put up half of the 50k for the match to happen. The key to the match falling apart appears to be the Dennis wouldn't risk even 10k of his own money (since French eventually agreed to give Dennis 15k). He wanted a totally free ride, so the match couldn't happen.
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I did ask Dennis about that because it was such an unbelievable statement for French to make. I KNOW Dennis would never put up that kind of money, he just doesn't have it. Almost all the money he makes goes to supporting his family. He told me he never agreed to put 25K into this match and I believe him.

By the way Dennis often puts his own money into high stakes gambling matches, whatever he can afford. People saying Dennis won't gamble his own are seriously misinformed. I've gotten involved in several high stakes matches with Dennis (we were betting from 5-10K) and each time Dennis put his own money in the middle with me. I'm sure that Dennis would be willing to put some money into the match with Shane but never 25K. I've probably watched Dennis bet his own (from 1-5K) and empty out playing a match he likes more than a dozen times. He's not afraid to put his own money in the middle, you can believe that.
 
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jay helfert said:
I did ask Dennis about that because it was such an unbelievable statement for French to make. I KNOW Dennis would never put up that kind of money, he just doesn't have it. Almost all the money he makes goes to supporting his family.

By the way Dennis often puts his own money into high stakes gambling matches, whatever he can afford. People saying Dennis won't gamble his own are seriously misinformed. I've gotten involved in several high stakes matches with Dennis (we were betting from 5-10K) and each time Dennis put his own money in the middle with me. I'm sure that Dennis would be willing to put some money into the match with Shane but never 25K.
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But was Dennis willing to put the 10k in the middle for the Shane match? If so, the match would have happened.

EDIT: I should probably edit this too. Since now the whole $6500 may be coming into play that French gave Dennis for DCC, assuming he needed to cover his hotel, entries fees, etc. Also ask Dennis why he never told French he had a free ride at DCC, but still took the full $6500.
 
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jay helfert said:
I will speak to Dennis at length later and get to the bottom of this ugly episode. I want to know for my own edification. It is entirely possible that French was trying to get over on Dennis and Dennis outsmarted him.
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Jay,

You know I like Dennis. My one day lesson with him at your house was one of the best experiences of my pool life.

Whatever you find out, I still think it would be in Dennis' best interest to square up with French - with the proviso that French tears up the contract. If French decides to do something legally, he may be able to tie up Dennis' winnings at the large future tournaments. I won't say how but I can see a scenario where this is possible.

As far as AZ goes, I've known Jay a long time and he is 100% trustworthy.

Chris
 
GideonF said:
Jay,

What is the entry into the Bigfoot? JF claimed that Dennis had free entry to this as a past all around champ. Is that true?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Dennis has free entry to the 3 DCC main events, and free hotel, for life. The all around does not get free entry into the Bigfoot.
 
I have a feeling some of the confusion here is that one of them is lying while the other one is not telling the truth.

I wish they'd just start over: $10000 to the winner, $5000 to the looser (from tickets and PPV), organizers take the rest, and call it a day. Of course if any of this is true, SVB won't want anything to do with it anymore.
 
http://www.dcctickets.com

Here is the list of all the prize winnings.

Dennis got:

Banks 1900
One hole 1725
9 Ball 5300
Master of table 2500
Bigfoot 4000
Straight pool 5300

Total Dennis DCC winnings: 20,725

According to French, French should have half of that, or 10,363. So if he is only asking for the 6500 he gave dennis to get to the DCC back, to be even steven, then he is letting Dennis off the hook for 3,862.

This is of course if French is telling the truth, and Dennis is lying. Who knows now.
 
cueenvy said:
Dennis wouldn't play events if French didn't put him in.

The contract as written was unenforceable. ..TThen again if it detailed how French pays all expenses and entries for 50 percent I guarantee we would have seen some world class dumping by Orcullo.
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Not only unenforceable, but the notion that this contract was written by a lawyer is ludicrous. Certainly no competent attorney has ever drafted a document like this.
 
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