Accustat commentators

[3andstop]

I think certain commentators talk too much. They try really hard to let everyone know how much knowledge of the game they have and they talk 1000 mph trying to describe every shot available before the shooter shoots. Then they criticize him for the shot he chooses. I think sometimes they just need to shut up.

I couldn't disagree more!

To be fair however, I suppose different level of players / beginners who buy these tapes expect different things. Perhaps some are expecting bland black and white descriptions of what is happening.

In all my years playing the game, owning a pool room, and just being a part of the "player culture" I can tell you that I not only enjoy the banter, but look very much forward to hearing it. Not only is it relevant in a very subtle way, it is IMO integral to the game itself. It's the "inside joke/humor" that goes with the breed.

I'll say one other thing. Entwined in that banter, and seemingly irrelevant commentary lies some of the mindset and road/cultural experience that actually IS pool excellence!

If you don't enjoy the banter at face value, look more deeply into it and find the "stuff" that makes world class players, their thoughts, their humor, their comic relief all bring back visions of great times and play in the past for me.

The color commentary is worth way more than the video that goes with it. I hope it never changes!

 

[gulfportdoc]

What would you think of a match between two players with NO commentators? Just microphones pinned on the players themselves. Of course, there will definitely be some dead time when nothing is said, but would that make the match more exciting?

I've often thought about that premise, JAM. Usually the thought comes to mind after hearing some particularly bad commentary. Commentators are necessary unless the viewers all have a high knowledge of the match being played, including the fine points of the particular pool game (1P, 10-ball, etc.). Commentators also must be able to portray the players' histories, and have the ability to be entertaining. Even if the viewers ARE knowledgeable, it's interesting to hear different points of view and alternative shot selections.

To my taste no one is better at analyzing table postition and shot selection than Buddy Hall and Grady Mathews. Their insights are fascinating. Buddy also has an infectious laugh and personality. Billy Incardona's personality is what sells him, and --to a lesser extent-- Danny D. Neither one of them participate in that touchy-feely everyone-is-wonderful approach witnessed on some of the TV broadcasts. Neither are reluctant to be contrary. Fred B. is also extemely knowledgeable, and no one has more great stories than he.

So if either of those five are in the booth, I'm going to listen!

Doc

 

[Cornerman]

The guys who did the last TAR gig here in vegas, Alex/Shane were not so good, I dont like to knock them because they love what they did, I support TAR, They did their best, however they talked way to much and were obviously on one side of the game-perhaps what they bet, and that isnt good, They, like I did might realize they arnt the right guys for that position, I tried and was terrible, I might jump in again for 5 minutes but I cant do it, IMO they cant either, again I applaude their effort.

One of the regular Accustat guys had about $5,000 bet on the set. And listining to him call the game you would never know he had a penny on it-thats what makes a great commentator and shows his heart as a gambler-He lost that night, listining to the match no one would ever know. The only reason I knew is he bet with me, and listened. The Alex SVB match last month wasnt like that, people dont want to listen to chatty nervious commentators. I hope they(TAR) addrress this, perhaps the gentalmen who were in the booth that night can change a bit-I know I cant do it its tough

Eric, this is the first that I've heard anyone say that the commentary was "not so good." I certainly welcome any constructive criticism, but after getting dozens of congratulatory thumbs up, I'm a bit stunned that you saw it so differently.

For the Shane/Alex matchup, several people did commentary, but Ken Shuman and I did the bulk of it. Neither of us had a sweat bet in the action, so let's put that to bed.

One other person did mention that we seemed to be favoring Alex. But he was so behind that I think anyone who was watching was looking for him to climb back and make it exciting. When Shane started fading in the end, we were in essence pleading for him to make a late heroic charge.

On a side note, one person just recently posted that he would have liked us to actually explicitly take sides, so he saw it as we were being a bit neutral. Everyone hears things differently.

So, that's it. I guess everyone can hear whatever they want. I'm sure I'll be my worst critic, but there are some "rules of announcing" that we're trying to stick to. Dead air time is a no-no. That might be rule #1. So, we're going to talk as much as possible.

Fred <~~~ can't please everyone

 

[mullyman]

I like any combination of Incardona, Grady, Buddy Hall, and Danny DiLiberto. Those 4 are my favorites. Especially when Buddy is teamed up with Incardona or Grady. Not only do they give a very graphic analysis of the game, they also have good chemistry with each other and are very entertaining.
MULLY
let me add that I can't stand the people that comment on the ESPN matches...Mitch Lawrence etc...

 

[RunoutalloverU]

I like any combination of Incardona, Grady, Buddy Hall, and Danny DiLiberto. Those 4 are my favorites. Especially when Buddy is teamed up with Incardona or Grady. Not only do they give a very graphic analysis of the game, they also have good chemistry with each other and are very entertaining.
MULLY
let me add that I can't stand the people that comment on the ESPN matches...Mitch Lawrence etc...

It seems to me virtually all the european commentators can give the 7 to our pool commentators, we just overall don't do a very good job. Some do better than others, but if the standard was great instead of just pretty good, and "oh its really hard to do" than I think an honest assesment is the people we hear most frequently are not very good.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I am curious about this, though, as this topic as come up before. What would you think of a match between two players with NO commentators? Just microphones pinned on the players themselves. Of course, there will definitely be some dead time when nothing is said, but would that make the match more exciting?

I enjoy watching a match with no commentary. Whenever I watch the Snooker events there isn't any commentary (on the internet that is).

I've always wanted to see pool dvd's have the option to have no commentary. Sometimes (not often) I get a dvd where the banter is so unbearable that during every subsequent viewing I have to turn the sound off.

 

[beetle]

So, that's it. I guess everyone can hear whatever they want. I'm sure I'll be my worst critic, but there are some "rules of announcing" that we're trying to stick to. Dead air time is a no-no. That might be rule #1. So, we're going to talk as much as possible.

I do think you guys did a great job, but I disagree somewhat with what you said above. Where is it written that you can't have dead airtime?

I think some respectful silence during critical parts of a match or critical shots adds to the drama. Incessant chatter (and I'm not saying you did that) is a nuisance, as Hal was alluding to. If the "bible" of announcing says "dead air time is a no-no" then it needs to be rewritten!

 

[Cornerman]

I do think you guys did a great job, but I disagree somewhat with what you said above. Where is it written that you can't have dead airtime?

I'm sure it's written somewhere!!!

Actually, I heard it from Rob Sykora when I asked him a few years ago about doing commentary on BcN.

And I did a radio commercial a couple of decades ago, and they said the same thing (or the same gist). But, then again, maybe Rob came from radio which has no visual, so dead air time is a no-no in radio.

I think some respectful silence during critical parts of a match or critical shots adds to the drama. Incessant chatter (and I'm not saying you did that) is a nuisance, as Hal was alluding to. If the "bible" of announcing says "dead air time is a no-no" then it needs to be rewritten!

I think you're right. Doing commentary on a visual program (golf e.g.) doesn't have to strictly follow the "no dead air time" saying. So, we had lulls that I think were normal. Respectful silence. I like it.

Fred

 

[perspicaz]

For my taste, Danny Diliberto and Billy Incardona are wonderful sources of knowledge that should never be silenced. They make any match twice as enjoyable and, many times, their commentary is even better than the match itself.

On a second league are Jim Wych and Jay Helfert that, although obviously having great knowledge too, seem to be more shy about it; but, nevertheless, act as great counterparts to the above two.

I havent seen many matches with Grady Mathews commenting, but I like his wisdom too.

I think listening to these guys does more for my pool game than a few hours practice let them do their magic!

 

[cajunbarboxplyr]

Keep Jerry Forsythe and Mitch Lawrence out of it and its all good


I dont mind TAR commentary one bit. I love it.. especailly when your in the chatroom with them......They keep it entertaining and not the dull " Oh he can go two rails for perfect position" Which dont get me wrong I like the old school commentary and I like the TAR style...... Put Grady and Billy or Danny and Grady or BIlly and Danny and I can listen to them all night and day... I love listentin to Danny and BIlly argue sometimes.....ENTERTAINING!!!


OMG I almost forgot........... Them british or foriegn commentors for the WPC jsut gotta go as well!!!!!!!!! It's like a stupid soccer match when you get those clowns on hte mic!!!

 

[uwate]

I think accustats is the greatest achievement in modern pool. Seriously, what other aspect of pool has occurred in the last 100 years that can top the achievement of Pat Fleming and his accustats staff?

That said, I have to say that the commentary on the matches is weaker imo in the last 5 years than in earlier times like the 90s. The main weakness i see is not that the commentators are not knowledgeable but that there has been a lack of diversity in the commentators. Back in the 90s Accustats used dozens of different people in the booth, but lately its been the core group of Wyche/Incardona/Diliberto with occasionally others like Jay and Jerry F. Particularly in 1pocket, I like hearing a variety of opinions on ball management, shot selection and style of play.

 

[JCIN]

Whoever did the OMGWTF vs Cubc commentating let it be known from the get go that he would not be analyzing shot selection and I thought it was entertaining because he used very "hip" terminoligy i.e. "OMG was diamondized" when a ball rattled on the tight diamond pockets.

That was me. I was running on a couple of hours sleep and sick as hell with a cold I somehow managed to catch in the middle of the desert. I did have fun interacting with the chat room.

Commentary is hard. There is a reason people go to school for jobs in radio and tv. My favorite Accu-Stats tapes were the ones where the guys talked about not only the match but the backstory to the players, the tournament, and what else was going on around the particular event they were at. I always wanted more of the "inside" info and less of the intimate breakdown of a 4 ball out. I have always been as interested in a players mindset as in his particular technique.

TAR's stuff is looser and some would say more unprofessional than Accu-Stats and I would agree on some matches that is the case. Some of that is by design and some by circumstance. We have been doing this for less than a year, with no previous experience and so we try lots of different things. Some work, some don't. I personally like to have a variety of people in the box and our long format matches pretty much dictate it. Just in the short time we have been doing it I have found some people that I really like listening to that probably would not have gotten a chance otherwise. Chris Bartram, Shawn Putnam, Sarah Rousey, Scott Frost, Ronnie Wiseman, Fred, Ken, Tony Chohan, and Ike Runnells are all people who I think do a great job and we are fortunate enough to have them want to participate.

One thing is 100% certain and that is that you can not please everyone all of the time. For me the key is staying true to what you believe in and having fun. Hopefully if someone doesn't like one matches commentators they will try another one.

My 2 all time favorite commentators? Billy and Buddy hands down, I could listen to those guys call a chess game.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Commentating in the booth LIVE is a difficult job. To speak on the fly and come up with constructive thoughts and good content is a skill set that not everybody is suited for.

What if the match is boring as hell and there's not much to talk about? LOL! This is when it's kind of cool to have two commentators who can fill in the "dead" time with colorful colloquy.

I am curious about this, though, as this topic as come up before. What would you think of a match between two players with NO commentators? Just microphones pinned on the players themselves. Of course, there will definitely be some dead time when nothing is said, but would that make the match more exciting?

I guess it's to each their own whatever their preference is. I experienced my boyfriend commentating LIVE one time at the DCC, a one-pocket match between Jose Parica and Shannon Daulton. The match was boring, boring, boring, with nothing worthwhile to speak about. Back and forth, no action.

They were renting headphones at the DCC for attendees to listen to the commentators booth. After 10 minutes or so, I was seeing more and more people get the headphones, sitting in the stands, laughing at the commentating. I got extremely nervous with my boyfriend in the booth at this juncture, especially seeing everybody laughing in the stands.

Fortunately, he was with J.R. Calvert who is a knowledgable person in his own right, and he used to be a professional player. He also has wisdom in many facets of pool. Sykora of BCn allowed me climb up the stairs and sit in the booth mid-match, so I could hear what was being said.

Let me just say that pool players may be great on a field of green, but it doesn't necessarily mean that ALL pool players have the skill set needed to broadcast live. I'm telling you, it's not as easy as it looks, in other words.

JAM

First & foremost, glad to see you posting again!

I've never heard Keith's commentary, can only imagine!

My all time favorite combo is Grady & Billy.
I also really enjoy Danny D, Nick Varner, Buddy Hall, Howard Vickery, Dallas West & Freddy Bentivegna.
Just under that tier is Kim Davenport, Jim Rempe & Jerry Forsyth.

I miss Johnny "The Velvet Foghorn" Ervolino and Bill "Weenie Beanie" Staton, as they both had their own unique style.

The only one that I really don't care for is Tony Annigoni. Jim Wych has sort of grown on me, but he's still not in my group of elite favorites. Just average now.

But, I would still to listen to Tony Annigoni over Mitch Laurence. In fact, I would rather listen to "Baghdad Bob" do commentary than Mitch Laurence.

 

[jay helfert]

Having done a little commentary myself over the years, I have my opinion as well. I really enjoy working with Billy, Danny, Buddy or Grady. It's easy to work a match with a knowledgeable pool guy next to you. That way we can have a meaningful conversation about the match, and the player's choices.

I have worked once or twice with sportscasters who knew nothing about pool, and it was a strain. One guy at the WPC kept calling me Pat??? Hello!!
I have worked on a couple of the TAR matches as well, and enjoyed my time in the booth with Kenny and Fred. At DCC I spent a couple of hours with Bob Hunter and Jeanette Lee in the TAR booth. We did get sidetracked because of their "history", and I egged them on. Still it was some funny sh-t! I also listened in when Justin from TAR was doing his thing, and he has a good voice and a nice delivery.

I feel much more liberty to express myself freely on TAR because it is not a "network" show. On a televised show, you must censor yourself and be careful about your choice of words. Otherwise the Producer or Director will be screaming at you on the head set. Yes, it's happened to me.

My theory about commentating is to act as if you are sitting in the stands watching the match and talking to your buddy next to you. I will chat about anything I observe that I believe is relevant to the match. I am very mindful of a player's demeanor when he is not at the table. That can be very telling also. I once criticized Earl's behavior at the WPC in Cardiff, using words like "disgraceful" and "embarrassing", because that is how I felt about it. We almost had a brawl after the match, but I refused to apologize for my comments.

All in all, I'm glad I've had the opportunity to do as many matches as I have. It's kind of cool to sweat a pool match and get paid for it. I've been doing it for free all my life.

 

[Derek]

Danny is top-notch. He's had me busting out laughing a few times with some type of witticism.

I really like Jimmy Wych a lot. I think his play on words is on par with Danny. Jerry is great also.

Billy and Jay make a good telecast also.

I don't care too much for Sigel and Matthews in these recent IPT events. 8-ball can be boring to watch, but they seem to make it more so. The venue probably factors into it also.

I kind of enjoyed John Schmidt and Jeanette Lee in the first SVB-Alex 10-ball TAR match-up.

Semih Sayginer seems like such an engaging guy and I would like to hear his commentary. His name is at least listed in the Accu-Stats catalog for commentator credit.

PS - I better add Allen Hopkins too. Unfortunately, he has a bum in Mitch in the booth with him on ESPN coverages.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Having done a little commentary myself over the years, I have my opinion as well. I really enjoy working with Billy, Danny, Buddy or Grady. It's easy to work a match with a knowledgeable pool guy next to you. That way we can have a meaningful conversation about the match, and the player's choices.

I have worked once or twice with sportscasters who knew nothing about pool, and it was a strain. One guy at the WPC kept calling me Pat??? Hello!!
I have worked on a couple of the TAR matches as well, and enjoyed my time in the booth with Kenny and Fred. At DCC I spent a couple of hours with Bob Hunter and Jeanette Lee in the TAR booth. We did get sidetracked because of their "history", and I egged them on. Still it was some funny sh-t! I also listened in when Justin from TAR was doing his thing, and he has a good voice and a nice delivery.

I feel much more liberty to express myself freely on TAR because it is not a "network" show. On a televised show, you must censor yourself and be careful about your choice of words. Otherwise the Producer or Director will be screaming at you on the head set. Yes, it's happened to me.

My theory about commentating is to act as if you are sitting in the stands watching the match and talking to your buddy next to you. I will chat about anything I observe that I believe is relevant to the match. I am very mindful of a player's demeanor when he is not at the table. That can be very telling also. I once criticized Earl's behavior at the WPC in Cardiff, using words like "disgraceful" and "embarrassing", because that is how I felt about it. We almost had a brawl after the match, but I refused to apologize for my comments.

All in all, I'm glad I've had the opportunity to do as many matches as I have. It's kind of cool to sweat a pool match and get paid for it. I've been doing it for free all my life.

Jay,
How about when you worked with Corey in the Ralf vs Buddy match at the '99 US Open? Corey surprised me at how knowledgeable and seemingly comfortable he was in the booth. I remember when Don Polo was in the booth for the first time, he seemed real tongue tied or had some trepidation. Grady covered him well.

I like your style Jay of not trying to overpower whoever you're partnered up with. You commentate nice and steady, just like you post. You seem to defer to the partner and also you don't seem to have a big ego.

Also, do you think Pat will ever have the "old crew" back? I miss Nick, Buddy, Howard & Dallas's words of wisdom and soothing tones.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,
How about when you worked with Corey in the Ralf vs Buddy match at the '99 US Open? Corey surprised me at how knowledgeable and seemingly comfortable he was in the booth. I remember when Don Polo was in the booth for the first time, he seemed real tongue tied or had some trepidation. Grady covered him well.

I like your style Jay of not trying to overpower whoever you're partnered up with. You commentate nice and steady, just like you post. You seem to defer to the partner and also you don't seem to have a big ego.

Also, do you think Pat will ever have the "old crew" back? I miss Nick, Buddy, Howard & Dallas's words of wisdom and soothing tones.

Boy, you're going back a long way. Corey was very good in the booth, he analyzed situations quite well, and gave good explanations. He was never reluctant to talk.

One thing to remember is that the show is not about you, it is about the players. They are the stars and we are merely observers making observations. Some 'coms' get a little carried away with their own importance and try to make everything about them and how they would do things. A couple of very famous players had this fault in years gone by.

I see myself as the "Bob Uecker" of pool shows. He was the third string baseball player who became a very popular broadcaster for his wit and candor. I'm kind of a third string pool player who tries to call it like I see it, and inject some humor whenever possible.

Thanks for the compliment Terry. I am always aware that I am having a conversation with someone (my co-com) about a match we are both watching. I talk to him and our audience together.

As far as who will work with Pat in the future, I'm not privy to that information. When I'm at a tournament that Accu-Stats is doing, Pat always uses me as a back up. Second string if you will.

Personally I love Buddy's commentary. I think he has a nice clear voice, speaks well, and doesn't miss anything! Just like when he's playing pool.

 

[yobagua]

Hey JAM. Since you posted Ill bring this up. Its on a tape of a match that Keith played on with a guy named The Sniper (?). The mike was left open and Grady just X rated the whole match. THis was not for regular consumption. But it was the funniest commentary Ive ever heard. Grady just let it rip. Saying the most outlandish things about both opponents walk, the way the played, their sexual preferences, etc. Grady just went crazy.

 

[Russ Chewning]

Hey JAM. Since you posted Ill bring this up. Its on a tape of a match that Keith played on with a guy named The Sniper (?). The mike was left open and Grady just X rated the whole match. THis was not for regular consumption. But it was the funniest commentary Ive ever heard. Grady just let it rip. Saying the most outlandish things about both opponents walk, the way the played, their sexual preferences, etc. Grady just went crazy.

Was that Keith versus Gary Nolan? I think I have that match! There is a woman that comes in and has a few choice words to say as well.

Russ

 

[tonmo]

I like ProPoolVids.com -- "with commentary" and "without commentary". I usually go "with", but it's neat to have the option (at least they used to).

The best commentary I think I've witnessed is Billy Incardonia and Danny Diliberto covering a 2001 Reyes / Souquet straight pool match.

How about "build-your-own-commentary"? I'd like to see some of this on your own home vids... B-)