Aiming System Testimonials

Okie · Jan 21, 2013

JB...your inbox is full!

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

Okie said:
JB...your inbox is full!

Yes I know. It's on purpose since I can't keep up with all the PMs.

jb@jbideas.com is a much better way to contact me.

or

<------------skype

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

Let's keep it going. Keep this thread at the top:

Cte ................wow - Today, 08:19 AM
Ive been playing pool for a little over 20 years. I have only used the ghost-ball or point of contact method to aim..Ive really just aimed off of feel for as long as I care to remember rather than keying in on a exact point all the time. If this makes any sense to anyone but me.....

I started using CTE (Stan Shuffet) about 6 months ago or so.....At first it just was hard to get a feel for it as it goes against what I trained myself to do for many years. Dropping in on the line of the shot, approaching the shot on a direct line of cueball address. With CTE you want to come in from the side NOT on that direct line. If you do approach on that line its easy to miss once you pivot the cue.. I found that I prefer the CTE method over the Pro One method, I actually enjoy the pivot as it locks me in on the shot.

Once I really got the system, my jaw literally hit the floor. I just cant believe the accuracy as well as the shot making that's easy to accomplish with it. I found that for me before CTE I was playing on the extreme outside edges of the balls on all shots (cue ball and object ball)...I was blown away when I realized how thick you can hit shots and they go into the center of the pockets.....It has opened up a lot for me and my game.

Ive seen all the threads and pretty much steered clear of all of it BUT I will say this CTE and Pro One are the real deal. No matter what I think it would be so much extra work to play without a aiming system. If I would have known this 20 years ago....WOW

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

Okie · Jan 22, 2013

JB Cases said:
Yes I know. It's on purpose since I can't keep up with all the PMs.

jb@jbideas.com is a much better way to contact me.

or

<------------skype

Yea whatever.... lol

I sent the message via facebook

Just given ya crap. No big deal

Ken

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

Joey A's experience:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=267824

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

Okie said:
Yea whatever.... lol

I sent the message via facebook

Just given ya crap. No big deal

Ken

It's cool. FB is hit and miss with me since it's banned in China. Got to use a VPN and that is also not reliable so I don't always check FB.

JB Cases · Jan 22, 2013

I can't help but wonder how anyone could think you could play pool (or anything else) at the highest level without a system. Whether we want to realize it or not there is a conscious or unconcious system for all aspects of pocket billiards. That goes for pocketing balls, playing zone position, lining up your eyes correctly relative to the line of the shot, etc.

The main thing with aiming is the way we connect the two balls together BEFORE getting down on the shot. If anyone doesn't think we have a system for that I will tell them they're living in a fantacy land. The thing that people are missing is there's 2 lines when aiming and one is a edge to center line and other is a center to edge. And to understand this you must stop looking at the balls like they're round....they for all intents and purposes are FLAT and one dimensional for the purposes of aiming. I go over a lot of this in my 3rd volume of Ultimate Pool Secrets, but after talking to Stan I realized I was doing something else unconsciously that is more of the foundation of his system. This has done wonders for my understanding of how it works and enabled me to "rembember" exactly how I was doing it in my prime. When playing good (gambling) I would expect to miss about one ball an hour (that I was trying to pocket) , and when I was playing great I would not make one ball every 2 hours. When I played Efren in Seattle for 14 hours I missed 6 balls total (that's my top speed). If anyone thinks I didn't use a system to do that that's fine.....but I'd challenge them to shoot a gun or bow without sights, because that's how they're playing pool if they don't know how to line up ABOVE the ball. - CJ Wiley

LAMas · Jan 22, 2013

JB Cases said:
Let's keep it going. Keep this thread at the top:

Cte ................wow - Today, 08:19 AM
Ive been playing pool for a little over 20 years. I have only used the ghost-ball or point of contact method to aim..Ive really just aimed off of feel for as long as I care to remember rather than keying in on a exact point all the time. If this makes any sense to anyone but me.....

I started using CTE (Stan Shuffet) about 6 months ago or so.....At first it just was hard to get a feel for it as it goes against what I trained myself to do for many years. Dropping in on the line of the shot, approaching the shot on a direct line of cueball address. With CTE you want to come in from the side NOT on that direct line. If you do approach on that line its easy to miss once you pivot the cue.. I found that I prefer the CTE method over the Pro One method, I actually enjoy the pivot as it locks me in on the shot.

Once I really got the system, my jaw literally hit the floor. I just cant believe the accuracy as well as the shot making that's easy to accomplish with it. I found that for me before CTE I was playing on the extreme outside edges of the balls on all shots (cue ball and object ball)...I was blown away when I realized how thick you can hit shots and they go into the center of the pockets.....It has opened up a lot for me and my game.

Ive seen all the threads and pretty much steered clear of all of it BUT I will say this CTE and Pro One are the real deal. No matter what I think it would be so much extra work to play without a aiming system. If I would have known this 20 years ago....WOW

I have followed you and Spidy lo these few years and You both convinced me that you understood Hal's CTE method for you demonstrated in vids that you could pocket balls. How has your understanding of CTE now improved? Did you miss more shots using Hal's original CTE than now?

If you are a better shot maker now, what do you credit that to?

Thanks for your contributions and your geneal posture.:thumbup:

JB Cases · Jan 23, 2013

LAMas said:
I have followed you and Spidy lo these few years and You both convinced me that you understood Hal's CTE method for you demonstrated in vids that you could pocket balls. How has your understanding of CTE now improved? Did you miss more shots using Hal's original CTE than now?

If you are a better shot maker now, what do you credit that to?

Thanks for your contributions and your geneal posture.:thumbup:

The method I learned from Hal at first had me pocketing balls realy well but it was also one where I had to work to acquire the right alignment. I would essentially waver like a cobra to pick up the alignment then I would come into the shot on CCB. This worked really well but it was tiring to keep up.

And it was difficult for me to use it on the long shots, probably because to the smaller ball perception.

But as I testified to I immediately jumped several balls and my results showed that over the months and years.

I have been doing CTE for I guess three years now, I'd need to look back at my videos to see when I put the first one up because that's when I made the committment to learn it. As to my understanding of it I think that I understand why it works even if I can't really explain it in terms that a geometer would agree with. I honestly think that it all comes down to essentially forcing you to adopt a body position that leads to you putting the bridge hand down in a comfortable position that has the v-notch on the GB line every time.

I can defintely say without a doubt that my shotmaking now is WAY stronger than it's ever been. Much better than with the method Hal taught me before.

I also need to clarify that I did NOT learn CTE from Hal. I learned it from Dave Segal and Stan's DVD and I confess that I am not the best student. I might be doing something wrong or not doing it as well as should be. But even at that my shotmaking is really strong right now.

About a year ago a very good player here challenged me. He put up tough shots and challenged me to make them. One after the other I made them and he walked away convinced that at least I could pocket the shots using my method even if he was unwilling to learn it.

What is weak though is my mental game. All this arguing really gets in my head and actually at times manifests itself during competition. I need to find a way to block it all out and just play. But I will say it again for anyone who cares to listen, CTE (and just the introduction to other ways to aim) has been a true pleasure for my enjoyment at the pool table. The connection I have to the balls now is really strong. There is no shot I fear anymore ever. I don't make them all but I don't miss by much either.

LAMas · Jan 23, 2013

JB Cases said:
The method I learned from Hal at first had me pocketing balls realy well but it was also one where I had to work to acquire the right alignment. I would essentially waver like a cobra to pick up the alignment then I would come into the shot on CCB. This worked really well but it was tiring to keep up.

And it was difficult for me to use it on the long shots, probably because to the smaller ball perception.

But as I testified to I immediately jumped several balls and my results showed that over the months and years.

I have been doing CTE for I guess three years now, I'd need to look back at my videos to see when I put the first one up because that's when I made the committment to learn it. As to my understanding of it I think that I understand why it works even if I can't really explain it in terms that a geometer would agree with. I honestly think that it all comes down to essentially forcing you to adopt a body position that leads to you putting the bridge hand down in a comfortable position that has the v-notch on the GB line every time.

I can defintely say without a doubt that my shotmaking now is WAY stronger than it's ever been. Much better than with the method Hal taught me before.

I also need to clarify that I did NOT learn CTE from Hal. I learned it from Dave Segal and Stan's DVD and I confess that I am not the best student. I might be doing something wrong or not doing it as well as should be. But even at that my shotmaking is really strong right now.

About a year ago a very good player here challenged me. He put up tough shots and challenged me to make them. One after the other I made them and he walked away convinced that at least I could pocket the shots using my method even if he was unwilling to learn it.

What is weak though is my mental game. All this arguing really gets in my head and actually at times manifests itself during competition. I need to find a way to block it all out and just play. But I will say it again for anyone who cares to listen, CTE (and just the introduction to other ways to aim) has been a true pleasure for my enjoyment at the pool table. The connection I have to the balls now is really strong. There is no shot I fear anymore ever. I don't make them all but I don't miss by much either.

Whether you can verbalize it or not...you have bridged the 'gaps' between A. B, C and 1/8 on the OB by mentally adjusting to those cut angles that lie between them. I applaud your memory of those visuals that you can recall them as you sweep across the OB rather than going down straight into the shot and then adjust.

Some here have mastered CTE such that they no longer have to tip offset and pivot...rather they seem to sweep across the OB and recall the visual relationship between the center or the edge of the CB and the elements of the OB for all cut angles that can be verified by geometry and diagrams...I see it that way and believe in it for it gets one to the elusive GB.

Thanks:smile:

JB Cases · Jan 23, 2013

LAMas said:
Whether you can verbalize it or not...you have bridged the 'gaps' between A. B, C and 1/8 on the OB by mentally adjusting to those cut angles that lie between them. I applaud your memory of those visuals that you can recall them as you sweep across the OB rather than going down straight into the shot and then adjust.

Some here have mastered CTE such that they no longer have to tip offset and pivot...rather they seem to sweep across the OB and recall the visual relationship between the center or the edge of the CB and the elements of the OB for all cut angles that can be verified by geometry and diagrams...I see it that way and believe in it for it gets one to the elusive GB.

Thanks:smile:

I understand what you are saying but I don't think that you are correct. I don't memorize anything.

I use the CTE line and align my body to that. Then I come in and pivot, which is ACTUALLY settling motion, to CCB. Then I shoot.

I have said this more than a hundred times, I can shoot shots which I have never before practiced and make them, shots from ridiculous angles. Shots that I can not possibly have a memory of. Shots that I would never have even considered trying in a game prior to learning CTE.

I want you to consider the possibility that I am cognizant of my own body and mind enough to know where my game is at, that I know what I am doing with my feet and my hands.

Instead of being like Pat and telling me what I am doing why don't you consider that I have paid very close attention to what I am doing? And for the record I don't use ProOne and secondary ABC aiming lines. I use the CTE line ONLY.

You guys treat me like some kind of idiot. I mean it. I put up videos in earnest expecting to have dialog and you completely ignore them. I put up diagrams showing my ideas on why I think it works and you ignore those.

Instead you continue to spout the same "subconscious adjustment"/"muscle memory" concept as if that is it. Well that doesn't explain the misses and it doesn't explain the makes on shots that have never been practiced.

Until you start making balls with CTE or any really great aiming system that does not require estimation, and yes I have tried your Double the Distance method, then you can't possibly understand what it means to get on a shot with such utter confidence that you feel like you can never miss. Nor can you know what it means to come up on tough tricky shots for the cash that are MUST MAKE shots and you apply the system and watch the ball go in clean.

The difference between the amount of shots and the difficulty of shots that I can now make with confidence between the time before I learned aiming systems and now is HUGE.

HUGE. My arsenal of shots expanded overnight. Not after thousands of trial-and-error muscle memory rote drills, but overnight after learning the aiming steps.

I believe it was Asimov or Hubbard that said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Well to me that's what this is.

Now you can say again and again and again that it's just the brain filling in the gaps and if that's true then this is the best brain-guide ever discovered for making balls. I mean if you would have told me that I could swish 87 degree cuts consistently just by aiming a certain way then I would have told you you were nuts. No way a person can do that without practicing them to get the "shot picture".

But in fact I routinely swish ultra thin cuts without having practiced them. Only now I have taken so many "tough" shots in games from unbelievable angles that there isn't really a shot I haven't shot any more. But I don't set them up and shoot them 200 times to "learn" those shots anymore.

You asked me how I am playing before and after and I told you. Don't try to analyze me from your keyboard and tell me what I must be doing. As Stan said there are no gaps. What there is is a lack of understanding between hard lines on paper and visual perception in the 3d space. Maybe you don't care to explore the less than 1mm difference between the CTE line and the GB line at the back of the CB but I firmly believe that this closeness plays a huge part in the perception and ultimately puts the body in the right position to settle into GB every time.

Anyway this thread is Aiming System Testimonials so if you want to testify to your good experience with DTD then go ahead. If you want to talk about how CTE does or does not work in your opinion pick another thread with more qualified participants.

stan shuffett · Jan 23, 2013

LAMas said:
Whether you can verbalize it or not...you have bridged the 'gaps' between A. B, C and 1/8 on the OB by mentally adjusting to those cut angles that lie between them. I applaud your memory of those visuals that you can recall them as you sweep across the OB rather than going down straight into the shot and then adjust.

Some here have mastered CTE such that they no longer have to tip offset and pivot...rather they seem to sweep across the OB and recall the visual relationship between the center or the edge of the CB and the elements of the OB for all cut angles that can be verified by geometry and diagrams...I see it that way and believe in it for it gets one to the elusive GB.

Thanks:smile:

The MOST DIFFICULT HURDLE for most all us to clear, including myself, is/was to figure out why Hal said CTE was not supposed to be.
That statement also directly relates to the idea that Hal knows CTE is of another dimension or aiming that occurs on a different plane.

I have cleared the hurdle(s), that for years, have created the mindset of CAN't BE, about CTE. This CAN'T BE mindset has permeated the billiard fraternity for many years but it's all CHANGING.

I can demonstrate to anyone the NEW DIMENSION and the fact the CTE CAN BE and does EXIST without gaps.

Yes, this info is in DVD2 but you do not have to purchase the DVD to get this. I will show you for the love of sharing at my facility if you'd like to see it first-hand, at least for the next many years, I hope, knock on wood. Lol

Stan Shuffett

cookie man · Jan 23, 2013

LAMas said:
Whether you can verbalize it or not...you have bridged the 'gaps' between A. B, C and 1/8 on the OB by mentally adjusting to those cut angles that lie between them. I applaud your memory of those visuals that you can recall them as you sweep across the OB rather than going down straight into the shot and then adjust.

Thanks:smile:

Lamas, this is quite wrong. There are no gaps between A, B, C, and 1/8 on the OB that we use. No mental adjustments on any cut angles.
Really think about this. Do you think we have to memorize every angle in between and recall them as we sweep across. By the way, we always sweep to center cue ball, so that in its self blows the theory of gaps out of the water.

BeiberLvr · Jan 23, 2013

Gaps...no gaps...I don't care. I'm playing the best pool of my life right now.

Newsheriffintwn · Jan 23, 2013

JB Cases said:
I understand what you are saying but I don't think that you are correct. I don't memorize anything.

I use the CTE line and align my body to that. Then I come in and pivot, which is ACTUALLY settling motion, to CCB. Then I shoot.

I have said this more than a hundred times, I can shoot shots which I have never before practiced and make them, shots from ridiculous angles. Shots that I can not possibly have a memory of. Shots that I would never have even considered trying in a game prior to learning CTE.

I want you to consider the possibility that I am cognizant of my own body and mind enough to know where my game is at, that I know what I am doing with my feet and my hands.

Instead of being like Pat and telling me what I am doing why don't you consider that I have paid very close attention to what I am doing? And for the record I don't use ProOne and secondary ABC aiming lines. I use the CTE line ONLY.

You guys treat me like some kind of idiot. I mean it. I put up videos in earnest expecting to have dialog and you completely ignore them. I put up diagrams showing my ideas on why I think it works and you ignore those.

Instead you continue to spout the same "subconscious adjustment"/"muscle memory" concept as if that is it. Well that doesn't explain the misses and it doesn't explain the makes on shots that have never been practiced.

Until you start making balls with CTE or any really great aiming system that does not require estimation, and yes I have tried your Double the Distance method, then you can't possibly understand what it means to get on a shot with such utter confidence that you feel like you can never miss. Nor can you know what it means to come up on tough tricky shots for the cash that are MUST MAKE shots and you apply the system and watch the ball go in clean.

The difference between the amount of shots and the difficulty of shots that I can now make with confidence between the time before I learned aiming systems and now is HUGE.

HUGE. My arsenal of shots expanded overnight. Not after thousands of trial-and-error muscle memory rote drills, but overnight after learning the aiming steps.

I believe it was Asimov or Hubbard that said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Well to me that's what this is.

Now you can say again and again and again that it's just the brain filling in the gaps and if that's true then this is the best brain-guide ever discovered for making balls. I mean if you would have told me that I could swish 87 degree cuts consistently just by aiming a certain way then I would have told you you were nuts. No way a person can do that without practicing them to get the "shot picture".

But in fact I routinely swish ultra thin cuts without having practiced them. Only now I have taken so many "tough" shots in games from unbelievable angles that there isn't really a shot I haven't shot any more. But I don't set them up and shoot them 200 times to "learn" those shots anymore.

You asked me how I am playing before and after and I told you. Don't try to analyze me from your keyboard and tell me what I must be doing. As Stan said there are no gaps. What there is is a lack of understanding between hard lines on paper and visual perception in the 3d space. Maybe you don't care to explore the less than 1mm difference between the CTE line and the GB line at the back of the CB but I firmly believe that this closeness plays a huge part in the perception and ultimately puts the body in the right position to settle into GB every time.

Anyway this thread is Aiming System Testimonials so if you want to testify to your good experience with DTD then go ahead. If you want to talk about how CTE does or does not work in your opinion pick another thread with more qualified participants.

I have experienced the exact same thing that you talk about. Once I got a firm grasp on the system my shot making seemed to go up over night. My consistency to pocket any shot went threw the roof. I'm astounded at the relative ease shots can be pocketed, and I mean damn hard cuts that look impossible.

To me the natural progression of a persons game would go like this. ( Or at least what I noticed for me personally). Once you start getting good at pool, seems like all of us start out being primarily shot makers. Can and do make shots that are tuff, but have not much cue ball control.

Then you make the transition to playing position and you lose a lot of your shot making power...seems like you can get the cue ball where you want BUT just don't pocket balls as well as before.

I honestly feel like the CTE/ Pro One system have given me back my incredible shot making as well as keeping very good position play as well.

Ive said this to more than a few friends.... There are only 3 times that the system doesn't work.....period!

When you don't believe in it (and change your aim at the last minute)

When you don't do it correctly

When you don't use it

JoeyInCali · Jan 23, 2013

mikepage said:
Below are portions of testimonials about an aiming system from one particular poster.

Guess the year.

Guess the system.

So far I have shown beginners and advanced players alike this system and
they are all pocketing balls in the center of the pocket almost every time.
[…]

After learning [xxxxx] I now
firmly believe that no one around here that I know has to like playing me
one pocket. I estimate that my game jumped three balls. […]
[…]

[…] after I aimed using what I have been taught I split the
pocket almost every time without lining the object ball up with the pocket!
Three balls is just right now. I might be five balls better in a month!

[…] I am not saying that this system turns people into champions but I
know that in my case if I had this information ten years ago then I would be
in the top ten right now.
[…]

I don't know the geometry or necromancy involved well enough to comment
scientifically, mathmaticlly or magically. What I do know is that for six
days I am making shots split the pocket no matter where they lay. For five
days I have been showing this to anyone who will listen and they have been
splitting the pockets, beginners and advanced players alike.
[…]

These are simple ways to aim that achieve exact results. I
thought that this might be something that only good players could benefit
from until I started showing it to relative beginners. Watching them
suddenly develop the ability to make shots that they were previously unable
to make no matter how often they tried was proof enough for me[…]

Now there is no shot that I
have trouble with. There is no bank that I am not 100% sure of.
[…]

I use the
reference points exactly as taught to me and my object balls split the
pocket. They split the pocket, not rail first, they don't wobble, they
split the pocket down the middle. I have at least a dozen witnesses who can
report that this is true.

And the answers are ?
Where's Mike?:grin-square:

AtLarge · Jan 23, 2013

JoeyInCali said:
And the answers are ?
Where's Mike?:grin-square:

- John Collins (Barton)
- year 2000
- on rec.sport.billiard
- regarding the "quarters" aiming method (a fractional-ball aiming method) taught to him by Hal Houle

JoeyInCali · Feb 15, 2017

mikepage said:
Below are portions of testimonials about an aiming system from one particular poster.

Guess the year.

Guess the system.

So far I have shown beginners and advanced players alike this system and
they are all pocketing balls in the center of the pocket almost every time.
[…]

After learning [xxxxx] I now
firmly believe that no one around here that I know has to like playing me
one pocket. I estimate that my game jumped three balls. […]
[…]

[…] after I aimed using what I have been taught I split the
pocket almost every time without lining the object ball up with the pocket!
Three balls is just right now. I might be five balls better in a month!

[…] I am not saying that this system turns people into champions but I
know that in my case if I had this information ten years ago then I would be
in the top ten right now.
[…]

I don't know the geometry or necromancy involved well enough to comment
scientifically, mathmaticlly or magically. What I do know is that for six
days I am making shots split the pocket no matter where they lay. For five
days I have been showing this to anyone who will listen and they have been
splitting the pockets, beginners and advanced players alike.
[…]

These are simple ways to aim that achieve exact results. I
thought that this might be something that only good players could benefit
from until I started showing it to relative beginners. Watching them
suddenly develop the ability to make shots that they were previously unable
to make no matter how often they tried was proof enough for me[…]

Now there is no shot that I
have trouble with. There is no bank that I am not 100% sure of.
[…]

I use the
reference points exactly as taught to me and my object balls split the
pocket. They split the pocket, not rail first, they don't wobble, they
split the pocket down the middle. I have at least a dozen witnesses who can
report that this is true.

Let's take a wild guess who said all that in 2000.

BilliardsAbout · Feb 16, 2017

HH (not to be confused with Scientology creator, LRH) was a genius. He knew super-duper things from super-duper players like Ralph Greenleaf and the brilliant workings of his own mind.

Listening to him speak was listening to a pool maestro.

However, he wasn't the clearest communicator always (if you can take the irony that it's me saying so) and his systems are sometimes misunderstood/mis-taught by people today.

My friend Tom Simpson taught Hal's systems and Hal's methods are the underpinnings of some great systems in use now.

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