Am I missing something?????????

snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I have been looking at cues lately, on the web, catalogs, and at the pool hall. Im not looking to buy one in particular, I just like to window shop. Anyhow, my question is, how in the hell does Predator move all its production to China, and still charge 1000 bucks for a cue??? Dont tell me the material costs are so high, and thats the reason. I believe we consumers are stupid, yup, we are plain dumb. They take 10 dollars worth of wood and glue, make a fancy, and very effective I might add, shaft and charge us 200+, and we line up to buy it, lol. Yea, I know Im gonna get some flack about this post, but dammit it dont make sense. Its kinda like kissing your cousin, sure it feels good, but it just aint right! And while I'm on my rant, why is it that I can have a custom made, one of a kind shaft made for my cue for about half the cost of a China made shaft? Why do these 200+ dollar chinese super duper shafts seem to have a real warpage problem? You would think that after paying that much money for a shaft that is supposed to be so good, it could at least stay straight! Ok, Im done, bring on the hate, and I will quietly accept it.......
 
snipershot said:
I have been looking at cues lately, on the web, catalogs, and at the pool hall. Im not looking to buy one in particular, I just like to window shop. Anyhow, my question is, how in the hell does Predator move all its production to China, and still charge 1000 bucks for a cue??? Dont tell me the material costs are so high, and thats the reason. I believe we consumers are stupid, yup, we are plain dumb. They take 10 dollars worth of wood and glue, make a fancy, and very effective I might add, shaft and charge us 200+, and we line up to buy it, lol. Yea, I know Im gonna get some flack about this post, but dammit it dont make sense. Its kinda like kissing your cousin, sure it feels good, but it just aint right! And while I'm on my rant, why is it that I can have a custom made, one of a kind shaft made for my cue for about half the cost of a China made shaft? Why do these 200+ dollar chinese super duper shafts seem to have a real warpage problem? You would think that after paying that much money for a shaft that is supposed to be so good, it could at least stay straight! Ok, Im done, bring on the hate, and I will quietly accept it.......
Click to expand...


What do you mean "still charge 1000 bucks" they've raised their prices
 
The last time I checked, consumer prices were based on competition and value - not cost. If you can make a widget for $5 and charge $1000 because competitive products are around that range and you have a good value, you'll flip a lot of goods. Sounds like good business to me.
 
This, IMO, is a great topic of discussion.

In my industry, most of our equipment for decades was made either in Japan, Germany, or domestically.

Nobody announces when domestic products are moving their production overseas. They try to hide that little fact.

With the introduction of the Chinese equipment coming in, along with much lower production cost, in most cases lower quality, we get left holding the bag, so to speak.

What I mean is that the factory pumping the junk out does not care/or does not know enough about their product to copy it. The US supplier does not see the product, and does not care again about the lack of quality, and then we, as the last person who must "prep" or "setup" the equipment out of the box (as it fix their mistakes) must then warranty their work as well. Broken junk; we fix it on our dime. Some cases the supplier will reimburse us, not for time, but for parts.

Anyways...how you ask can they get away with it?

Easy.

They have a name people are willing to pay for. They hope and assume that, because of the perceived quality behind the name, they can fork over their cash and expect a quality product. In some cases, they can put together some pretty good stuff there in China, but then the consistency is not there. Often the overall quality is never the same as it was previous to what was being made. One thing is for sure; they almost NEVER produce a better product than what was available once before.

I can go on for a few more pages, but I don't want to bore people.
 
I did not know this. Thanks for the information. I have played with a Predator for many years. My shafts are 1st generation but my butt is 2nd. I've had it a while so I would say it was made here in USA. If I wanted to play with a cue made in a sweat shop I would buy a Mali. I guess it is time for me to start looking for a different model.
 
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snipershot said:
I have been looking at cues lately, on the web, catalogs, and at the pool hall. Im not looking to buy one in particular, I just like to window shop. Anyhow, my question is, how in the hell does Predator move all its production to China, and still charge 1000 bucks for a cue??? Dont tell me the material costs are so high, and thats the reason. I believe we consumers are stupid, yup, we are plain dumb. They take 10 dollars worth of wood and glue, make a fancy, and very effective I might add, shaft and charge us 200+, and we line up to buy it, lol. Yea, I know Im gonna get some flack about this post, but dammit it dont make sense. Its kinda like kissing your cousin, sure it feels good, but it just aint right! And while I'm on my rant, why is it that I can have a custom made, one of a kind shaft made for my cue for about half the cost of a China made shaft? Why do these 200+ dollar chinese super duper shafts seem to have a real warpage problem? You would think that after paying that much money for a shaft that is supposed to be so good, it could at least stay straight! Ok, Im done, bring on the hate, and I will quietly accept it.......
Click to expand...


China?? Well that explains why the shafts are coming in crooked.
My friend has ordered 2 times from predator and both times he has had to send them back due to a warped shaft.
What a shame..:frown:
 
Before I say what I'm gonna say... I don't use Predator nor would I. Not because of the company or the product, it's just that I use a different cue and like that shaft from the cue maker.

That being said, if Predator can increase margins by manufacturing their stuff in China - what's the issue? For some reason (that I'm not aware of), China seems to be associated with lower quality and that's not really true.

It's very American of us to think that, but in the grand scheme of things - it's not a China-thing if a product is made like shit - it's the statement of work and quality control of the manufacturing process that determines the final product. The last time I checked, there were a lot of American things I've bought in the past that were total shit as well.

The last time I was in China, I had a tour of the Tsingdao Beer factory and I was really impressed. This manufacturing process is extremely complicated and they make a fine beer, I might add. I also believe they're the 2nd largest beer maker on earth. I also had a tour of the Haier refrigeration company. If you've bought a small refrigerator to put near your pool table, it's probably a Haier and it's made in Shandong. They're one of the top in the world as well.

I'm not trying to pump-up Predator, but those who use those shafts swear up and down on them. Let's face it, the quality is just fine even though it's made in China. Every time I see Predator at a trade show, they have one of the very nicest set-ups and booths as well.

Yes, the workers in China make FAR less than U.S. workers - but the cost of living is far less - so everything is in proportion. In a world economy, manufacturing and labor no longer have to operate in your back yard. I outsource my programming to Barcelona, Spain and Hamburg, Germany. Over time, the labor rates will go higher in China and the cost of living will increase - and the U.S.'s will likely dip - and there will be an equilibrium.

If China is known for crap cues, it's probably because they just started. Give them time and they'll put out equal stuff for less money for SURE.
Predator is a good example.

I'm sure they're over there laughing about Eddie Wheat and a few others who may not be a good example of American ingenuity.

P.S.
Warped shafts aren't a China problem. I've had a few here in the states, we all have. Hate to defend China, but if we're not educated on what's happening over there, they'll run over us in 10 years instead of 50.
 
How can you justify anything that is outragous in cost to material?

Shoes, clothing, purses, wallets, ties, belts and etc. A ton of this stuff is made in a 3rd world country and consumers pay a ton for it.

Seen a pair of what looked like $3.00 flip flops with a designers name on them at the Bellagio shops in Vegas. They were selling for $1200. The funny thing was the name was on the bottom. They were probably made for the porn stars that always wear shoes in bed.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Before I say what I'm gonna say... I don't use Predator nor would I. Not because of the company or the product, it's just that I use a different cue and like that shaft from the cue maker. Fine.

That being said, if Predator can increase margins by manufacturing their stuff in China - what's the issue? For some reason (that I'm not aware of), China seems to be associated with lower quality and that's not really true. Really? Got an example of this other than beer?

It's very American of us to think that, but in the grand scheme of things - it's not a China-thing if a product is made like shit - it's the statement of work and quality control of the manufacturing process that determines the final product. The last time I checked, there were a lot of American things I've bought in the past that were total shit as well. True, true.

The last time I was in China, I had a tour of the Tsingdao Beer factory and I was really impressed. This manufacturing process is extremely complicated and they make a fine beer, I might add. I also believe they're the 2nd largest beer maker on earth. I also had a tour of the Haier refrigeration company. If you've bought a small refrigerator to put near your pool table, it's probably a Haier and it's made in Shandong. They're one of the top in the world as well. Hey, I like beer, too!

I'm not trying to pump-up Predator, but those who use those shafts swear up and down on them. Let's face it, the quality is just fine even though it's made in China. Every time I see Predator at a trade show, they have one of the very nicest set-ups and booths as well. Sure, if you like warped shafts.

Yes, the workers in China make FAR less than U.S. workers - but the cost of living is far less - so everything is in proportion. In a world economy, manufacturing and labor no longer have to operate in your back yard. I outsource my programming to Barcelona, Spain and Hamburg, Germany. Over time, the labor rates will go higher in China and the cost of living will increase - and the U.S.'s will likely dip - and there will be an equilibrium. Jobs that are leaving are not coming back.

If China is known for crap cues, it's probably because they just started. Give them time and they'll put out equal stuff for less money for SURE.
Predator is a good example. Everyone has growing pains, but I've seen the same problems on Chinese equipment for years, with out being attended to. Germans or Japanese would not stand for that. Furthermore, they should be ashamed of what they are willing to put into a box, in some cases.

I'm sure they're over there laughing about Eddie Wheat and a few others who may not be a good example of American ingenuity.

P.S.
Warped shafts aren't a China problem. I've had a few here in the states, we all have. Hate to defend China, but if we're not educated on what's happening over there, they'll run over us in 10 years instead of 50.
Click to expand...

Warped shafts on $1,000 pool cues are only your problem if you happen to have one.
 
Gregg said:
Warped shafts on $1,000 pool cues are only your problem if you happen to have one.
Click to expand...

Have you tried to return it and get a replacement? I'm sure they'd swap it. Why wouldn't they?

I could spend all afternoon giving you additional examples outside of beer and refrigeration... if you have IBM notebooks / desktops you'd be familiar with Lenovo who purchased that division of the company. If you're familiar with RCA equipment or Alcatel, it's OEMed by TCL. All made in China, all very good.

Like I said, I hate being a China cheerleader.... because I'm not.... I've spent a lot of time over there and I know what's up.

In my opinion, the only thing where China needs a LOT of help is FOOD. Uhhhh, there ain't General Tso's Chicken in China... catch my drift?

f_Foodm_6c3638b.jpg


f_Food2m_ddebb7e.jpg


Take a wild guess what I'm eating in these pics.

This is my last post on the China subject.
 
It almost looks like you are eating quail.... at least to me. Actually China have a huge population so we don't need help with the food :D lol (You see how I got so damn big).

I don't really chime in on this subject of people bashing on China made products, because personally I think people will be childish about it and start attacking my nationality and say I only say those things because I am Chinese.

Only one thing to say here:
Predator is a business, when can you have a successful business? When you can lower production cost (Outsourcing to China) and still charge a high price and have a high demand for your product (Still happening all over), you have a damn successful business. That's the reason why they are made in China. You might not think about this, but then again I haven't read all the post in the thread. Maybe if you think paying a $1000 for a Chinese made Predator is expensive, you might be paying well over $2000 for an American made Predator. A lot of people here in the U.S are not willing to do the same work the Chinese are doing for the price they are charging. But than again, what do I Know, I am just looking at it at an overall business standpoint.

Happy shooting! :)

Chino
 
Well I didnt say Predator was junk, but I would expect their quality control to be a bit better than it is for what we pay for their products. What I am saying is, why would I spend 1000+ on a cue made in a factory in China by some poor bastard that has no idea how bad he is getting screwed, when I can spend the same amount, or even a little less, and get me a custom cue made. Ive seen some Leon Sly cues on here that are far more attractive than most Predator cues, and they are actually cheap enough that I could buy a Predator shaft to go with it, and still pay less. I understand why they moved to china, im not that stupid, but I guess what pisses me off is that we consumers are so dumb(myself included). Like I said, they take 10-20 dollars worth of material, and make a cue, then sell it for an outrageous profit. WE allow that to happen, its like if you give your kid a gallon of ice cream and he eats it all, you cant be mad at him cuz you let him do it. I know there are numerous points of view on this. Chino, this was in no way directed at you, lol. Im not pissed at China, Im pissed at us consumers, including myself. ok, im done. thanks for reading.....
 
snipershot said:
Well I didnt say Predator was junk, but I would expect their quality control to be a bit better than it is for what we pay for their products. What I am saying is, why would I spend 1000+ on a cue made in a factory in China by some poor bastard that has no idea how bad he is getting screwed, when I can spend the same amount, or even a little less, and get me a custom cue made. Ive seen some Leon Sly cues on here that are far more attractive than most Predator cues, and they are actually cheap enough that I could buy a Predator shaft to go with it, and still pay less. I understand why they moved to china, im not that stupid, but I guess what pisses me off is that we consumers are so dumb(myself included). Like I said, they take 10-20 dollars worth of material, and make a cue, then sell it for an outrageous profit. WE allow that to happen, its like if you give your kid a gallon of ice cream and he eats it all, you cant be mad at him cuz you let him do it. I know there are numerous points of view on this. Chino, this was in no way directed at you, lol. Im not pissed at China, Im pissed at us consumers, including myself. ok, im done. thanks for reading.....
Click to expand...

well its not like the factory is selling the shafts to predator for 200 dollars. im pretty sure predator gets them real cheap from the factory and then resells it for 200 dollars. so if anything this would be more of a predator problem than a chinese problem. but of course predator has to maintain the same price as before. it wouldnt make much sense if the 1st gen shafts sold for around 200 dollars then they release the new and better 2nd gen shafts and sell it for less.

and like u said, if anyone is to blame it would be the consumers this has nothing to do with china or with predator. the end result is that consumers are still buying them so predator has no reason not to charge what they charge.

to us it seems like a no brainer to get a custom cue from someone instead, but a large majority of pool players dont know how to get in contact with any custom cuemaker and some arent even aware of such things as custom cues. on top it all, players who have never hit with a custom cue wont risk spending money on one. they see a popular production cue and assume that its a great cue so they go and get it. in the end a lot of pool players dont want to or just simply dont spend enough time researching about cues cuz after all it's just a stick right?
 
Danktrees said:
and like u said, if anyone is to blame it would be the consumers this has nothing to do with china or with predator. the end result is that consumers are still buying them so predator has no reason not to charge what they charge.

to us it seems like a no brainer to get a custom cue from someone instead, but a large majority of pool players dont know how to get in contact with any custom cuemaker and some arent even aware of such things as custom cues. on top it all, players who have never hit with a custom cue wont risk spending money on one. they see a popular production cue and assume that its a great cue so they go and get it. in the end a lot of pool players dont want to or just simply dont spend enough time researching about cues cuz after all it's just a stick right?
Click to expand...

I think you and I are on the same page:grin:
 
Cost of materials is not a good argument here. How much material cost do you think are in a Southwest cue? And no, Im not comparing Predator to Southwest in quality! But if your mad about the profit then who do you think makes more on a cue, Predator or SW?

Why are Predator's, Nike, Rebock and others so expensive? Its not just the materials, its the production cost, development, research and ADVERTISING. People are paying 150 for a pair of shoes that cost probably 10 bucks to make because they had to be able to pay MJ his millions to indorse them so people would be willing to pay the 150.

While Predator does not pay players to use their shafts (last I knew anyway) they do spend a lot in advertising. They dont have to pay the players because many of them use them anyway, which is an even stronger endorcement.

It is possible that they had to move production to China to keep from raising costs, Im not saying that is the case, but its possible. In this day when businesses are closing every day, I cant fault one for makeing the tough choices it takes to keep running.

Shafts are wood. Wood warps. Things can be done in the curing of the wood to help reduce this, but it still can and will happen.

And by the way, their workers arent being taken advantage of. They are working for the going rate in their country. If more jobs keep going over their then their wages will increase do to job openings versus employees. But this could take a while LOL.

I have to agree with Spider on this one.

Woody
 
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